babylon
Near Irchel a dove in the middle of the street on the way to Bucheggplatz,
and immediately afterwards a magpie flying, then a police VW bus. Peace.
On the way back two doves on the street. Peace.
Hence nothing here, not even hidden. Let it be.
11 Feb ’23 in the morning…
deutsch
Nahe Irchel eine Taube in der Mitte der Strasse auf dem Weg zum Bucheggplatz,
und unmittelbar danach eine Elster im Flug, dann ein Polizei-VW-Bus. Peace.
Auf dem Weg zurück zwei Tauben auf der Strasse. Peace.
Daher nichts hier, nicht mal versteckt. Let it be.
11. Feb '23 am Morgen…
etherea said (Mon 2 Jan 2023 17:20:31 CET):
Very speedy work!
I bless this ship and all who sail in her
Yes..., sailing... , the announcement at the astro.com forum has a ♓︎ MC (and a ♋︎ AC).
I presume "the baby is out" (public access here for everybody who wants, the announcement is already archived at the Internet Archive).
I guess I will simply trust the fates on this one...
Below the chain of dispositors for the forum announcement.
Note that I drew arrows the other way than usual, from a planet to all planets in its domicile, but, of course, it can also be read the other way.
Dotted lines denote traditional domiciles.
There is a loop from ♅ to ♄ to ♀ and back to ♅.
Under the disposition of ♄ are quite a few planets, so I guess "ego" ☉, "thinking" ☿ and "power" ♇ would be moderated/structured by ♄,
as well as more indirectly Mars and ♃. Plus ♆ partially via traditional domiciles, but otherwise in its very own loop.
Unter the disposition of ♀ are also several planets, ☽ and indirectly Lilith, and north node.
So maybe the community and also "lunatics" (both "moon") would somehow harmonically be moderated by ♀.
Makes me also think of a ♎︎ theme, domicile of ♀ and ♄ exalted.
And, I guess, ♅ in the loop would also advance things...
(Note that the chain of dispositors is quite independent of the exact birth time, it only changes when objects change signs.)
Murmeltier said (Tue 3 Jan 2023 15:57:10 CET):
Hier das Horoskop dieses Forums:
Das wäre genauer gesagt der Moment der Registrierung der Internet Domäne astrologyinternational.org.
Ein Horoskop für die Ankündigung im alten Forum, dass das neue Forum steht und allen offen ist,
wäre im Eröffnungsfaden im englischsprachigen Teil hier:
#3
Bin gespannt, wird sich sicher über die Zeit zeigen, was das Forum mehr spiegelt,
und wären ja ev. sogar noch zukünftiges Ereignisse wichtig (und vermutlich auch das Horoskop für den ersten Faden auf Deutsch hier)...
Ich persönlich vermute allerdings schon am Ehesten, das unten als am Wichtigsten
(siehe auch was ich heute morgen auf Englisch noch am alten Ort dazu schrieb)...
Murmeltier said (Tue 3 Jan 2023 17:19:46 CET):
I think the time when the forum technically went online is important because it is the actual starting point for the forum.
[...]
Ich halte den Zeitpunkt, als das Forum technisch online ging, für wichtig, weil es den eigentlichen Startschuss für das Forum darstellt.
Da wäre zu erwähnen, dass der Name der Domäne (astrologyinternational.org) mehr als "nur" ein Forum impliziert,
also möglicherweise mit der Zeit einen grösserer Scope.
Daher sehe ich das bgzl. Forum eher umgekehrt wie Murmeltier, ohne mir dessen sicher zu sein.
English: To be noted that the name of the domain (astrologyinternational.org) implies more than "only" a forum,
hence potentially over time a larger scope.
This is why I see it the opposite way regarding the forum than Murmeltier, while not being certain of it.
Regarding 3):
Personally I like it already a lot how it is.
The posters and the posts are at the center and I find the result beautiful so far.
In terms of usuability, of course, a more convenient way to insert astrological symbols would be high on the wish list.
But all in all very happy with how it looks
One of my pet hypotheses in astrology is that Sedna would have a similar role in this world
than Pluto had since its discovery in 1930 (or Neptune had since ca. 1846, Uranus since ca. 1781),
namely that it would define a general theme for these times.
Similarly to Pluto, Sedna is certainly not the dominant object in terms of size in its orbital range,
but like Pluto Sedna is the first object discovered "further out" in a new orbital range
(or at least the most prominent one), which is why - that is my basic hypothesis -
Sedna would be an important object in these times.
As with any hypothesis, you have to test it,
so I below once more the two charts for the registration of this domain
and the public announcement at the old forum that this new forum is now open for everybody,
but with aspects to Sedna in late ♉︎ in 11 highlighted.
There are quite a few close aspects, and overwhelmingly harmonic ones, only trines and sextiles,
plus there is a conjunction with the ☽ in the second chart
(note that the ☽ moved a sextile between these two events).
So, seems at least that Sedna was part of the picture in the making here.
Note also the current Lilith-Pluto opposition.
Pluto was discovered in the USA in 1930, while Lilith as the second focal point of the lunar orbit
(or the apogee of the orbit) was invented/discovered in 1937 in France, so themes coming from a similar time.
Murmeltier said (Wed 4 Jan 2023 11:52:03 CET):
Alain (@xphi.) ... ahhh ja, super.
Du bist ja auch Admin!
Guuut!
Ja, anscheinend, hatte ich auch gesehen (also wohl technischer Admin, nicht Moderator, und auch nicht "Staff member").
Macht wohl im Moment Sinn, oder auch ggf. noch ein bisschen später, wenn ich ggf. bei technischen Änderungen was beitragen würde
(statt ev. nur mitdiskutieren und Vorschläge machen), aber ich kann nichts versprechen,
ich bin eher nicht so der Typ für etwas in der Art (eher "Krebs"-betont als "Steinbock",
eher an Strukturen anlehnen als sie selbst stemmen, und eher auch nicht rechtlich irgendwie verbunden sein).
Phoebe said (Wed 4 Jan 2023 13:18:18 CET):
So, when the time comes for us all to begin thread-making, it would be nice to begin one for Sedna. I've grown rather fond of her.
Yes, many things on my mind.
Sedna enters ♊︎ for the first time around mid June.
Maybe a good time to start talking (☿ ruling ♊︎) about Sedna in spring? Will see...
Regarding board categories, how about something like this for "general discussions":
• traditional
• modern (ca. 20th century)
• postmodern (ca. 21st century)
"Modern" would be roughly what Astrodienst does today with its articles,
sort of what is still largely the public mainstream in larger astrological journals, etc.
Planets up to Pluto, plus Chiron, Lilith and maybe some more asteroids.
Tropical zodiac, birth charts, synastry, harmonics, psychological astrology and similar, and so on...
"Traditional" would be roughly hellenistic astrology plus some additions until the discovery of Uranus.
Probably also general discussion of horary astrology (as opposed to looking at a specific horary) would fit in here.
"Postmodern" would include quite a bit of "everything" else, Pluto no longer a planet, many new objects and planets discovered,
individual "pet theories" or also movements that only some astrologers "dig" (Münchner Rhythmelehre MRL, for example,
or "Human Design System" which some dig in the German section, even though its origins have something a bit of a cult,
yet it does combine influences from West and East in nontrivial ways), generally Avantgarde,
including candidates for a future mainstream or also attempts to prove some aspects of astrology experimentally.
Not sure how to maybe mirror that when it comes to mundane topics and personal horoscopes.
For personal horoscopes, maybe people would often be interested to hear from different perspectives
(except maybe either only Western Tropical or else Vedic/sideral)?
And for mundane topics, just posting into the three general sections might be good in theory,
but might in practice not be so good ("conspiracy theories", etc.).
symbolfor said (Thu 5 Jan 2023 12:57:13 CET):
Many years ago, on the AD forum, I heard that they didn't want to separate traditional and modern,
because they thought that it was the same tradition. I think this opinion has merit.
The problem with creating these categories is that the practitioners are often not purists.
So, when making the rules for the traditional forum, for example, you will have to define what goes and what doesn't.
Many traditionalists use the outer planets, others use modern predictive techniques, etc. How will they neatly fit?
Thanks for the reply (all of it)
What could be said to tie "traditional" and "postmodern" together would be
that both more interest into the history of astrology + applying it
and an explosion of objects and methods since about 20 years
would he a reaction to the "modern" astrology of the 20th century implicitly collapsing
because Pluto was certainly huge at least in the 20th century for the lives and fates of people,
and, yet, in the sky Pluto is clearly not so special, which in priciple shows "as above so below" not to be true,
at least only in a very skewed way.
Or at least that would be the consequence,
but in my view astrologers tried to escape that in essentially
the two ways of "traditional" (often no Pluto) or "postmodern" (often anything goes, all methods are equal).
But what I was thinking about when proposing the three categories was that "traditional" and "modern"
would mainly contain people that would like to have some "protection/isolation" from the myriad of other approaches ("postmodern"),
not complete stand-still, so still some new things to look at and investigate.
But I might be wrong, and those categories might not work well also for other reasons
(for example, easy to judge and enforce categories/rules would also be important, both for posters and moderators, I would think).
But that was the main idea, protect people who prefer some protection and give others free room to expand in all directions...
But yes, in a music forum with a category "classical",
I guess Stockhausen and Zappa would probably be not in the wrong place to post (at least also there)...
And I guess someone like P a n (name in the old forum) would also go well in "traditional",
at least his views on a beautiful consistent/symmetric/harmonic system of planetary dignities...
Personally, I would really love to have a category "or what?", inspired by the movie "Into the Night"
where at the end the two main characters end up with some US secret agents of some sort:
Ed Okin: Are we under arrest, or what?
Federal Agent: I'd say you fall into the "or what" category.
Quotes from "Into the Night"
I guess my Saturn at the end of Pisces in 9 falls essentially into the "or what?" category...
But anyways, the discussion of boards has moved and likely will take a less philosophical turn at least for the moment,
which is ok for me and continuity from the old forum is certainly also beautiful,
but would be cool to discuss such things more at some point, would be many things I could still say...
If I was looking for a book I remembered, but could only remember its color,
a library that sorts books by colory (like a rainbow) would be great...
In case not everybody is aware of it, a bit more than an hour before the zoom meeting on Sunday,
mean Black Moon Lilith will enter Leo (at 14:42 local time, 13:42 UTC, für Dübendorf Saturn in 10 a bit ahead of the MC).
[added: chart for zoom meeting below:]
The Be Good Tanyas - Horses
Ich dachte, wäre schön auch im neuen Forum wieder einen Musikfaden zu haben...
In the German section of the old forum there is (soon has been) a long running thread about music,
actually it even grew so long that moderators split it into two parts in 2014...
People usually just post(ed) some music there, sometimes also referring to the chart(s) of the musician(s)
and sometimes some astrological explorations around that started, and often also not, just the music.
At least in my memory, that thread was not a place where there were fights/arguments –
maybe simply the music helped, maybe it had just been started at a good moment?
The thread title means roughly "What music gets your Sun going?"
with "Trab" also being the name of a way a horse walks/runs, "jog trot"...
In any case, I would love to have such a thread again in some form, if moderators don't mind,
and music being also an internationally understood language, often everybody could "read" (and post) there
https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?lang=g&num=1388532503;start=all
https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?lang=g&num=1200223660;start=all
An observation that is true for all charts around this time of old and new forums (Dec/Jan)...
There is an opposition between Pluto and Lilith (at least mean Lilith, often also others, not checked 100% in all details).
This means also that there is a conjunction between Pluto and at least mean Priapus, which I guess can be quite a bold thing,
I presume even to the degree of being ridiculous, in a comical way...
But also at least for the registration of this domain and the announcement, Pluto/Priapus are also joined by Venus,
which is probably benign and could be fun...
If you involve Sedna (depending on what you typically use), there is basically a trine from Sedna to Pluto/Priapus/Venus,
so they are tied to her in a way, fatedly but also harmoniously, while Lilith at bascially a sextile has more freedom,
can opportunisticly choose what to do or not...
And an observation about Sedna and digital: Most people who can use the fingers on their hands use them to write,
here and in other places, so Sedna's fingers are I guess also very creative writers.
Below three charts:
• New moon of 23 Dec 2022 in early Capricorn for Dübendorf near Zürich (that's the one that would be active now, new moon in 10)
• New moon of 21 Jan 2023 in early Aquarius, same place (not so long after that with also Uranus direct
and no longer stationary might(!) be an interesting time window for going really live with the new forum as someone suggested
in the Zoom meeting yesterday*; note also that the new moon is close to the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction of early Aquarius of Dec 2020;
new moon in 5, so might be a good phase to create/start something new...)
• New Year 2023 in Dübendorf (as with any new year chart, houses are the same every year,
but this time there is a sextile from the MC at around 3° Cancer (ruled by the Moon) to the moon at 3° Taurus,
the very degree where the moon is traditionally exalted...)
* Sorry, not 100% sure by who it was in terms of names in the forum, since in the Zoom meeting partially real names were shown...
Phoebe said (Sun 8 Jan 2023 00:45:56 CET):
Legendary SRV -- live in Austin, Tx.
I remember BB King in an interview saying how he (BB King) would usually have to think when playing,
play a few notes, then think what next, but that SRV could just play, would just flow,
and that he did not know many who could do that...
In the music thread at the old forum, 1-2 years ago Yvette asked me what would "funky" be astrologically,
and I quickly suspected Venus-Saturn aspects, roughly Venus for melody, Saturn for rhythm,
also thinking of something Prince sings somewhere, "a little bit behind the beat, just enough to turn you on".
And, yes, I looked at all musicians that are funky in my ears in following posts, and seemed very reproducible.
SRV does not have such an aspect, and he is not literally funky to me, but they are both in the same sign (Scorpio),
maybe even both in the 12th as in the DD chart at ADB, with lots of water anyways, "Texas Flood"...
Here a song by Mark Knopfler who is not funky in my ears (and often not really what I like, but I like that one),
no Venus-Saturn aspects, but the guy on the harmonica does have that (forgot his name), and ...
"weevils in my hay" just when there is Francoise Dorleac (the older sister of Catherine Deneuve)
on stairs in Paris in 1966...
* https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Vaughan,_Stevie_Ray
Ich erinnere mich, dass BB King in einem Interview sagte, dass er (BB King) normalerweise beim Spielen nachdenken muss,
ein paar Noten spielt und dann überlegt, was als nächstes kommt, aber dass SRV einfach spielen kann, einfach fließt,
und dass er nicht viele kennt, die das können...
Im Musik-Thread im alten Forum fragte mich Yvette vor 1-2 Jahren, was "funky" astrologisch gesehen wäre, und ich vermutete schnell
Venus-Saturn-Aspekte, ungefähr Venus für Melodie, Saturn für Rhythmus, und dachte auch an etwas, das Prince irgendwo singt,
"a little bit behind the beat, just enough to turn you on". Und ja, ich habe mir in den folgenden Beiträgen alle Musiker angesehen,
die in meinen Ohren funky sind, und sie schienen sehr reproduzierbar zu sein. SRV hat keinen solchen Aspekt,
und er ist für mich nicht buchstäblich funky, aber sie stehen beide im gleichen Zeichen (Skorpion),
vielleicht sogar beide im 12. wie im DD-Horoskop bei ADB, mit viel Wasser jedenfalls, "Texas Flood"...
Hier ein Song von Mark Knopfler, der in meinen Ohren nicht funky ist (und oft nicht wirklich das, was ich mag, aber ich mag diesen hier),
keine Venus-Saturn-Aspekte, aber der Typ an der Mundharmonika hat das (habe seinen Namen vergessen), und ... "Rüsselkäfer in meinem Heu",
gerade als Francoise Dorleac (die ältere Schwester von Catherine Deneuve) 1966 in Paris auf einer Treppe steht...
Übersetzt mit www.DeepL.com/Translator (kostenlose Version)
Attached below are charts for new moon in early Capricorn (23 Dec 2022) and in early Aquarius (this Saturday, 21 Jan 2023),
both for Zürich (the area where the old and new forum have their homes).
In the sense of the Sabian Symbol "A new moon that divides its influences. Finesse" (26 Pisces, my Chiron degree btw),
I am looking at the new moon (sun-moon conjunction) in those charts...
In the current cycle until Saturday, the new moon is in 10, sort of a "double capricorn" theme,
e.g. forum archives and legal questions around that, including around what can be preserved publicly in this time, or similar.
And generally for Capricon rather Janus ("January") that looks both ways, old and new year, old and new forum.
In the upcoming cycle starting 9:53:15 PM CET (Switzerland, 20:53:15 UTC) the new moon is in early Aquarius in the 5th house,
so would be for all that it appears a good cycle to create/start something (5th house) that has an early-Aquarius signature,
which, of course, would fit very well into the current Jupiter-Saturn cycle started by their conjunction in very early Aquarius in Dec 2020,
and Pluto will already enter Aquarius not much later this year for some time. And generally with Aquarius,
the symbolism would already be more Februs ("February") than Janus, cardinal to fixed, looking mostly only forward, no longer back.
To me, "reading the signs", a beautiful opportunity, with very good chances to be successful and helpful to many...
(To me personally probably not immediately so much, for example my Mercury is in early Leo.
Maybe accordingly, I have very little time and energy this year to spare, at work more attention needed than on average,
privately some things that I had postponed several times and now really feel I have to tackle this year.
If I was 10 years older and no longer working, I would have seen many nice opportunities this year,
besides the forum also all kinds of open source contributions to astrological software,
which could also have been quite useful for this forum and for other places, but as things are,
I will for all that it appears be present "only" a little bit around here,
I guess mostly in the "postmodern astrology" section with a few of my core "Avantgarde" contributions
that at least aim(!) at eventually becoming part of future mainstream,
but also maybe with quantitative research around planetary return charts
(initially primarily Saturn, but maybe also Jupiter early) and Saturn-Venus in music, but never say never...
)
PS: Chinese New Year will be Sunday 22 January 2023, as always tied closely to the Aquarius new moon,
as far as I know (maybe there are occasional exceptions regarding Aquarius or not, not sure).
The new year will be the year of the Rabbit, more precisely a Water Rabbit.
Astrologically the 5 Chinese Wu Xing are the 5 planets Mercury to Saturn, "Wu Xing" has a very similar meaning to "planet",
both incidate that they wander/move, like planets relative to fixed stars.
The Wu Xing / "Chinese element" Water is planet Mercury.
Attached below a Chinese Ink painting I made 15 Dec 2022, note that I was aware already then that it would be the year of the Rabbit,
but at least consciously not that it would be a Water Rabbit - do you see the rabbit...?
My personal favorite would still be the chart that Phoebe proposed in reply #12,
Saturday in a week, 28 Jan at 13:10 (12:10 UTC), Venus at the MC exalted in Pisces,
AC ruler Moon exalted in Taurus (with n.node) in 11, Saturn and Sun in 9, Uranus in 11,
at least a lot seems appealing to me. (Pluto in 8? Mars in 12?)
Would/could practical things be ready by then (Verein, boards with rules, license agreement, impressum) or even for earlier dates?
Not that all would absolutely have to be, I guess would in general be more aquarian if not, would flow...
But not sure if I should say much about specific election moments,
as likely others (esp. admins+moderators) would have much more to live with the eventutal consequences...
Chart from #12 again:
delira said :
Und warum hat das 8. Haus ein eigenes Brett?
Soweit ich verstanden hatte, wäre das gedacht als der Ort, wohin man Dinge verschieben könnte,
die sonst nirgends hinpassen inkl. insb. die Regeln verletzten, wäre ein Bereich,
der nur Mitgliedern sichtbar wäre oder sogar je nachdem noch stärker eingeschränkt werden könnte nur auf die Beteiligten.
Dahinter wäre die generelle Idee statt Löschen und Sperren meist eher zu verschieben,
Oliver hatte das mal mit einem Blitzableiter verglichen...
Aber müssten Admins/Moderatoren sagen ob das so in etwa stimmt...
Was ich mir selbst noch gedacht hatte, wäre dass "Postmoderne Astrologie" oft ein Ort sein könnte
wo z.B. "pet theories" (also ca. eigene Forschungen / Methoden) und sonst exotischere Dinge Platz hätten
oder ggf. auch hinverschoben werden könnten, dort würde sich am Wenigsten jemand an anderen Sichten stören solange astrologisch.
Und noch generell: Viele Kategorien wären ggf. wassermännischer, könnten verhindern helfen, dass sich einzelne Personen sehr breit machen,
da kaum jemand in all den Kategorien wirklich exzellent oder nur schon on-topic präsent sein könnte...?
English (autotranslated):
As far as I had understood, that would be thought as the place where you could move things that fit nowhere else
incl. esp. violate the rules, would be an area that would only be visible to members or even depending
on even more restricted only to those involved. Behind this would be the general idea instead of deleting and blocking mostly rather to move,
Oliver had once compared this with a lightning rod ...
But Admins/Moderators would have to say whether that is so approximately true ...
What I had thought myself, that "Postmodern Astrology" could often be a place where e.g. "pet theories"
(i.e. own research / methods) and other more exotic things would have a place or could be moved to,
there would be least bothered by other views as long as astrological.
And in general: Many categories would be more aquarian, could help to prevent that single persons make themselves very big,
because hardly someone could be present in all the categories really excellently or only already on-topic...?
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Yes, Saturn rules the 8th house with Pluto within, so could mean depth in a structured way.
And Saturn also rules the 7th, so also exchange with others would be structured (but still with freedom, I guess, with Saturn in 9 and in Aquarius).
Similarly that Venus rules the 12th with Mars could also be quite benign...
And, yes, the Moon-Saturn quintile... I was just thinking about Kepler who introduced quintiles
and also wrote sort of a short story about someone travelling to the moon without naming the moon,
but then for the most part of the story just described some astronomical/physical facts about the moon,
which would remind of moon-Saturn (hmm.... Prague...?)
And, of course, a relation to the Venus stations on a pentgram during Venus' 8 year cycle,
besides the associons with 5th house and maybe also 5th sign Leo, or as I did some more a long time ago in usenet
with the hand with 5 fingers, or the 5 pillars of islam, and so on, plus the I guess widespread association with "talent".
I guess not so clear what that quintile would entail...
PS: When I think now of what you wrote with "can be equally destructive,
all depending on motivation" via 5th sign Leo there might be a connection to the heart,
which is I guess free which way to go, constructive/destructive, etc.
PPS: And the heart also leads via hearth (core of homes/caves back to prehistory) to Hestia/Vesta.
I only learned a bit more than a year ago, that there is in fact something
that makes Vesta special among asteroids and other smaller objects:
She is the brightest of the asteroids, apparently (like Uranus) just at the threshold of being visible without a telescope,
could be seen by someone with really good eyes under ideal conditions, it appears.
And Vesta was at the MC for the announcement that this forum is open for anyone to join made at the old forum.
BTW, I once wrote an essay titled "Hestia" in a Usenet post in 2004 that I really like a lot,
and there I already related her to Leo, e.g.
"This suggests that the oldest roots of Leo are female and related to nature,
which is the first and the last thing that time (Cronos-Saturn) created, like Hestia."
Thanks, too, ears are generally closing with the sun about to move into Aquarius,
cardinal to fixed, I would say, time to move "forward"...
Re side note: olivine/peridot also known as chrysolite, as in Samuel Beckett's short play Krapp's Last Tape,
"The face she had! The eyes! Like . . . (hesitates) . . . chrysolite! (Pause.) Ah well . . . (Pause.)"...
There is a personal story attached to that, once more around the foundation of this new forum to me personally, "Prague Fringe".
Prague has, of course, quite some history regarding astrology/astronomy
since e.g. Kepler or also the place where the verdict on Pluto as a planet was spoken in 2006, and, like Zürich,
has a Lion as its animal (usually with two tails in Prague)...
PS: The connection to metalworking Hephaestus was something I did not know, so would be a Taurus theme, too,
Hephaestus married to Aphrodite/Venus, and also something aquarian since he had some kinds of robots in his smithery,
hm, robots, a term invented by Josef Capek, the brother of Karel Capek
who wrote the play in which the word "robot" first appeared in today's sense, Prague again...
Ray Manzarek Live Paris 2001, "Riders on the storm"
Damals (um den 3. Juli 2001) war ich vermutlich sogar gerade in Paris oder kurz zuvor...
Interessant, dass nicht mal in dem Kontext das Publikum erwartete,
dass "Riders on the Storm" nach dem scheinbaren Ende des Liedes doch wieder beginnen würde.
Ich hatte das immer damit assoziiert gehabt oder für mich gespiegelt,
dass im Sommer 1966 (wo ich geboren bin) Saturn es fast aus den Fischen heraus in den Widder geschafft hatte,
aber kurz zuvor umdrehte und dann wieder in die Fische zurückschaute, bis März 1967 –
das erste Album der Doors "Break on Through" erschien im Januar 1967.
Saturn in einem Wasserzeichen und Regen, eine Art "digitales Wasser", Wasser in einzelnen Tropfen,
damit auch (im Nachhinein) ein Sedna-Thema...
Bei mir ist, zusätzlich zu Saturn rückläufig im letzten Grad der Fische, Merkur noch ganz knapp rückläufig,
Anfang Löwe, aber auch am Ende vom 12. Haus, schaut also ebenfalls zurück in einen "kollektiven Ozean"...
Ich werde wohl in nächster Zeit einfach mal an dem Taschenbuch schreiben, mit dem ich Januar 2019 begonnen hatte,
"Hollywood", plus noch ein paar praktische Dinge tun, die sich angehäuft haben die letzten paar Jahre,
auch den Blick wieder mal etwas weiter öffnen auf verschiedene Dinge.
Ja, technisches Knowhow ist rar in der Astrologie, und doch scheint das nicht zu sein was die Schicksalsgöttinnen mit mir vorhaben,
und zu denken, die hätten irgendeinen Mangel an Möglichkeiten, wäre sowieso ganz naiv, siehe Oliver, der plötzlich "aufgetaucht" war –
wann immer die wollen, geht das wie nichts...
Meine Eltern hatten 1964 nach einer Weltreise über Ägypten und Japan (Tokyo+Kyoto)
etwa 3 Monate bei einem Freund in Hollywood (am Beachwood Drive) gelebt,
und gingen dann nach Boston (Harvard, mein Vater war Architekt) um dort zu bleiben (Green Card),
dort gefiel es ihnen aber nicht, sie kamen zurück in die Schweiz und 1966 wurde dann ich geboren,
mit nicht zuletzt auch wohl der Weltreise in mir...
English:
At the time (around 3 July 2001) I was probably even in Paris, or a few days earlier...
Interesting that not even in that context the audience expected "Riders on the Storm" to start again after the apparent ending of the song.
I had always associated that ending in the middle, or mirrored it to me, that in the summer of 1966 (when I was born)
Saturn had almost made it out of Pisces into Aries, but turned back just before than and then looked back into Pisces until March 1967 –
the first album of the Doors "Break on Through" came out in January 1967.
Saturn in a water sign and rain, a kind of "digital water", water in individual drops, thus also (in retrospect) a Sedna theme....
In me, besides Saturn rx in the last degree of Pisces, Mercury is just barely retrograde,
in early Leo, but also at the end of the 12th house, thus also looking back into a "collective ocean"...
I will probably just write the pocket book I started January 2019 in the years to come, "Hollywood", plus do some more practical things
that have accumulated the last few years, also open my views again a bit wider on different things.
Yes, technical know-how is rare in astrology, and yet that does not seem to be what the fates have in mind for me,
and to think that they might have any lack of possibilities would be quite naive anyways –
see Oliver, who had suddenly "appeared" – whenever they want, they can have it their way in two shakes of a lamb's tail....
In 1964 after a world trip via Egypt and Japan (Tokyo+Kyoto),
my parents had lived for about 3 months at a friend's place in Hollywood (on Beachwood Drive),
and then went to Boston (Harvard, my father was an architect) to stay there (Green Card),
but there they did not like it, they came back to Switzerland and in 1966 I was born,
with I guess the world trip in me...
Early morning today, still half asleep in bed, dark outside, no light inside except from the screen of my cell phone,
I had a quick look at new posts at the two forums, and my mind had also gone back to Usenet,
the "global village forum" that essentually died in the earlier 2010s, except for at most barely legal movie downloads etc.,
when also ISPs stopped to include Usenet in their services.
Then astro.com's forum, even though arguably somewhat "trapped" in the 12th house of the founder,
did in a way take the role of the "global place" for astrologers to discuss things,
and I was musing whether the coming years would have another forum that would continue in that role,
thinking, of course, of the "international" in astrologyinternational.org,
and while I was doing that I had playfully clicked on my shortcut to the oracle at sabian.org (the one with the Mucha),
and already clicked the oracle button, and while it was processing in a split second I decided to make it an oracle
about whether there would be much activity, a continuation or maybe for some years sort of silence or however you might call it,
a pause, and then new things again. The oracle gave:
GEMINI 9 A quiver filled with arrows.
Sounds quite promising.
And then I noticed that Mars is currently at 8.x° Gemini, i.e. in the 9th degree of Gemini, thus "GEMINI 9" applies...
By 25 January, Mars will already be at 9.x° Gemini, "An airplane falling.", which sounds less promising,
so I was wondering if opening already a bit earlier than the 25th might even be better,
even if it would be quite shortly after new moon?
Of course, there is not only Mars, also other planets and the angles and points, and, yet, wait for what...
The old forum archive is already up as you might have seen, announced so far at the German-speaking section,
ending, thus far at least, 20 Jan 2023...
https://www.astro.com/forarch/forarch_e.htm
Just dreaming, maybe even in hibernation mode.....
Note that the above oracle could also be read in at least one different way, as almost always.
Is the quiver now, after a long phase with Mars rx already filled ("enough"),
or would it maybe be better to fill it over years, and then do something?
Might possibly be rather my way, also due to circumstances, see openastro.io...
Below a chart for a potential(!) opening tomorrow Sunday, about half a day after the new moon in Aquarius,
already in the Chinese New Year, a chart which has some similarities with the chart for the 28th 13:10 UTC:
Sunday, 22 January 2023 at 2:05 PM CET (13:05 UTC)
Venus-Saturn at the MC (thus maybe also "funky"?), with Venus ruling the 12th house with Uranus
(and somewhat the n.node in 11 at the cusp of the 12th) and with Saturn ruling the 8th with Pluto
(already conjunct the cusp of the 9th).
Mercury ruling the AC in 7, although already nearing the 8th. Juno-Jupiter in 11, Neptune-Vesta an 10 alreay close to 11th.
Mond-Sun in 9.
All modern planets Moon-Pluto above the horizon, Lilith(s) and Ceres below,
as far as I can see all Liliths close-by, all early Leo just about to touch the 3rd house.
The 3rd house would be ruled by the sun in 9, so might still be quite a sunny summery place?
Just what I dreamed up... 🫠
Phoebe said (Sat 21 Jan 2023 15:20:37 CET):
The Moon is combust!
Is it really?
I have no personal experience with it, but the Astrowiki states that combust is if within 8.5° from the sun,
while on the proposed moment on Sunday, the moon would already be 9°41' ahead of the sun.
But I am not aware of traditions/practices and never specifically looked at that.
Certainly not cazimi*, of course (correct?)...
Combustion - Astrodienst Astrowiki
* PS: https://www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Cazimi
Cazimi is an Arab term for a planet in very close conjunction to the Sun,
i.e. when it is located within 17 minutes.
So the planet literally is situated "in the heart of the sun."
Phoebe said (Sat 21 Jan 2023 15:20:37 CET):
How about Monday (Moon day) when the Moon will have cleared the Sun's beams and is applying to conjunct Venus,
and just a little later time for a Cancer Asc.
I am not so sure, a Moon-Venus-Saturn conjunction with the moon in front a least feels less "good" to me,
without knowing exactly why.
Not that I would say that Sunday is definitely "it", just feels somewhat better to me so far...
I have attached a chart for Monday 2:30 PM (13:30 UTC) with AC very early in Cancer.
I suspect that early Cancer might often be very sensitive, so maybe people then rather reluctant to post?
(Would that be a "good" thing or a "bad" thing?)
But I generally like Water with so many planets there, so yes, at least no objection from my side for Monday
Phoebe said (Sat 21 Jan 2023 15:20:37 CET):
Yes, the Moon is combust, considered a severe debility especially for initiating projects.
Did you see my reply?
If 8.5° was the threshold for being combust,
9°41' as for the proposed chart would be a moon that just liberated itself from the rays of the sun,
metaphorically maybe from the sun logo of astro.com?
[Phoebe had posted this link in her reply:
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/glossary/combust/,
where it says "More ancient authors [than Lilly] generally used 15° to note the distance of being under the Sun's beams,
and were less specific about the limits of combustion".]
Phoebe said (Sat 21 Jan 2023 16:11:35 CET):
About the worst thing to do is to hurry and react to fear.
We've come this far, I still prefer Jan 28th at 1310 UT.
Not fear in my case, just sensing something that feels like an opportunity,
but not with full conviction, in any case, if not Sunday,
I would at least wait until Saturday next weekend,
with preference so far Jan 28th at 1310 UT...
And since so far it is not a bunch of people saying "go for Sunday",
I guess will be another week,
until the new moon has become visible as crescent in the early evening after sunset again...
[That would have been earlier, maybe already Monday 23 Jan.]
I'm gonna watch "Babylon" in a movie theater tonite...
Premiered in the US at the last new moon, 23 Dec 2022,
and just came into cinemas in Switzerland this week and not in many theaters,
so maybe flopped, but that I am going to watch it even though I usually do not go to watch movies
that are 3+ hours long is maybe a sign – I have 4 planets in 12,
so not unusual do things of rather a collective kind from time to time.
Otherwise y'all in the meantime, go ahead, make my day!
xphi. said (Sat 21 Jan 2023 17:46:44 CET):
I'm gonna watch "Babylon" in a movie theater tonite...
Premiered in the US at the last new moon, 23 Dec 2022,
and just came into cinemas in Switzerland this week and not in many theaters,
so maybe flopped, but that I am going to watch it even though I usually do not go to watch movies
that are 3+ hours long is maybe a sign – I have 4 planets in 12,
so not unusual do things of rather a collective kind from time to time.
Otherwise y'all in the meantime, go ahead, make my day!
Well, the movie was really good for me (in a way just what I needed as "relief"),
and Babylon with its many languages while building the tower there reminded me also of some qualities here,
but overall there was presumably too much "pre-code Hollywood" in the movie for the Oscars.
Just a couple of hours before the movie started (new moon was about at 2/3 of the movie),
I had gotten a note from a relative in the French-speaking part of Switzerland
that my aunt might be about to pass away soon.
She has the n.node at 1° Aquarius (c.f. Saturn-Jupiter conj. Dec 2020, soon Pluto, t.mean Priapus, opp. t.mean Lilith),
has been living most of her life (except for some years in Zürich) in Geneva
where the new provider Infomaniak is and generally many international organizations,
working for Swissair (on the ground), hence quite an international work environment, too,
and she has the sun and 3 more planets in Aquarius...
That she would pass away would not in general come unexpected to me,
ut my gut feeling had been rather coming April or so, so still keeping fingers a bit crossed...
But in my recent experience, contact especially with the n.node can "be the end"
if you are relatively near death anyways,
as the n.node would be generally be the direction to go into "in this incarnation",
i.e. it would sort of "speed up" or "fulfill life",
meaning also bringing oneself closer to the end (of at least that "incarnation").
So, maybe that was why I (sun in Leo, nothing in Aquarius, except maybe n.node in Taurus in 11 similar theme),
would have been somewhat present here in the making of the forum.
Where does the energy of a human being go when that person dies,
maybe is recycled into something like a forum like this one?
(My aunt is 4 years older than my mother and my aunt and also grandmother were far from being very nice with my mother as a child,
so ties are not extremely strong, but is still family, and other than from the side of my father's sister and mother,
my aunt did bring presents (and later send money) at xmas and my birthday every year,
and the past two years I would meet her once in summer in the French part of Switzerland
for lunch with all of the family there invited by her...)
Since I promised in the maternity ward forum that I would repost... 
Repost:
The Be Good Tanyas - Horses
In the German section of the old forum there is (soon has been) a long running thread about music,
actually it even grew so long that moderators split it into two parts in 2014...
People usually just post(ed) some music there, sometimes also referring to the chart(s) of the musician(s)
and sometimes some astrological explorations around that started, and often also not, just the music.
At least in my memory, that thread was not a place where there were fights/arguments –
maybe simply the music helped, maybe it had just been started at a good moment?
The thread title means roughly "What music gets your Sun going?" with "Trab" also being the name of a way a horse walks/runs, "jog trot"...
In any case, I would love to have such a thread again in some form, if moderators don't mind,
and music being also an internationally understood language, often everybody could "read" (and post) there
Repost (in reply to Phoebe's post Stevie Ray Vaughan - Look at Little Sister, "Legendary SRV -- live in Austin, Tx."):
Mark Knopfler - Bluebird
I remember BB King in an interview saying how he (BB King) would usually have to think when playing,
play a few notes, then think what next, but that SRV could just play, would just flow, and that he did not know many who could do that...
In the music thread at the old forum, 1-2 years ago Yvette asked me what would "funky" be astrologically,
and I quickly suspected Venus-Saturn aspects, roughly Venus for melody, Saturn for rhythm,
also thinking of something Prince sings somewhere, "a little bit behind the beat, just enough to turn you on".
And, yes, I looked at all musicians that are funky in my ears in following posts, and seemed very reproducible.
SRV does not have such an aspect, and he is not literally funky to me, but they are both in the same sign (Scorpio),
maybe even both in the 12th as in the DD chart at ADB, with lots of water anyways, "Texas Flood"...
Here a song by Mark Knopfler who is not funky in my ears (and often not really what I like, but I like that one),
no Venus-Saturn aspects, but the guy on the harmonica does have that (forgot his name),
and ... "weevils in my hay" just when there is Francoise Dorleac (the older sister of Catherine Deneuve) on stairs in Paris in 1966...
Repost:
Ray Manzarek Live Paris 2001, "Riders on the storm"
At the time (around 3 July 2001) I was probably even in Paris, or a few days earlier...
Interesting that not even in that context the audience expected "Riders on the Storm" to start again after the apparent ending of the song.
I had always associated that ending in the middle, or mirrored it to me,
that in the summer of 1966 (when I was born) Saturn had almost made it out of Pisces into Aries,
but turned back just before than and then looked back into Pisces until March 1967 –
the first album of the Doors "Break on Through" came out in January 1967.
Saturn in a water sign and rain, a kind of "digital water", water in individual drops, thus also (in retrospect) a Sedna theme....
In me, besides Saturn rx in the last degree of Pisces, Mercury is just barely retrograde, in early Leo,
ut also at the end of the 12th house, thus also looking back into a "collective ocean"...
I will probably just write the pocket book I started January 2019 in the years to come, "Hollywood",
plus do some more practical things that have accumulated the last few years, also open my views again a bit wider on different things.
Yes, technical know-how is rare in astrology, and yet that does not seem to be what the fates have in mind for me,
and to think that they might have any lack of possibilities would be quite naive anyways –
see Oliver, who had suddenly "appeared" – whenever they want, they can have it their way in two shakes of a lamb's tail....
In 1964 after a world trip via Egypt and Japan (Tokyo+Kyoto),
my parents had lived for about 3 months at a friend's place in Hollywood (on Beachwood Drive),
and then went to Boston (Harvard, my father was an architect) to stay there (Green Card),
but there they did not like it, they came back to Switzerland and in 1966 I was born, with I guess the world trip in me...
The music thread at the old forum (grab it while it is still up, it is not part of the "official" PDF archive!):
Welche Musik bringt Eure Sonne auf Trab?
https://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?lang=g&num=1388532503;start=all
The question about what is funky came up in the thread around early February 2021, foremost between Yvette and me,
roughly around post #4478 and then well into spring and punctually beyond, with many examples.
My take was that Venus-Saturn aspects would be what makes something funky, with Venus for melody and Saturn for rhythm,
and thinking of what Prince sings in one of this songs with "just a little bit behind the beat, just enough to turn you on".
And, yes, in practically all charts I looked at, that seemed to be true.
And it would seem that, since so much music has been digitized,
one might be able to measure that by relating rhythm and melody in all kinds of music
and see if that matches the music of the spheres, Venus-Saturn aspects...
Or maybe find out something else.
The Doors - Break On Through (To The Other Side)
All four members of the doors had Saturn-Venus aspects, actually all five if you count Ray Manzarek's left hand
(Uranus in the middle of Taurus - like now - at the beginning of the 5th house) that was often the bass player of The Doors.
By the way, The Doors were the first band to put up a billboard on Sunset Strip (Hollywood, Los Angeles) in 1967;
those were hand-painted at the time, often by immigrants, were big in the 70s,
and disappeared essentially with the 80s when music videos came with the start of MTV...
Rock & Roll Billboards of the Sunset Strip: Photographing the Billboard Landscape
The song and the band name is inspired via Aldous Huxley by William Blake's apparently very uranian "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell" (1790-93):
"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite."...
And Los Angeles, the angels and also angles, grand square early cardinal / late mutable, I would presume...
Anyways, you can find more about Venus-Saturn in the thread linked above (in German),
plus also a little teaser on my website in the aptly named "Astro Teasers" article...
(curling up and going to sleep again...*)
* https://www.astrologyinternational.org/forum/index.php?members/xphi.8/#about
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Detail: On my side, the "Register" button in the forum appeared just a few secs after 14:10:00 UTC, I took a screenshot just afterwards,
that showed 15:10:06 (CET), while I think(!) I might have seen the button first at 15:10:02 CET,
anyways that would presumably be the time window regarding from when on someone could have registered...
(I was apparently first of regular users, while admins/moderators apparently already joined yesterday.)
Not that this is immediately very important, but might help to time future transits/progressions more precisely...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Regarding place: I would suppose that Dübendorf is the most relevant place for the opening, as it was Oliver who "pushed the button" there.
Nonetheless did I try to find out where the provider Infomaniak has its data centers.
They are near Geneva, I guess Kanton Geneva rather than city Geneva (but not sure which they mean), but they do not reveal where precisely:
🚀 Host your own servers in our TIER III+ datacenters in...
Location:
In Switzerland
Our data centres are located in Geneva, Switzerland. For reasons of security, the exact location is not made public.
Would not make a big difference regarding houses, though, Switzerland is relatively small.
Their data centers are very modern also in terms of energy efficiency and good for the climate...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Below the chart for the (re-)opening today with outside the announcement of 2 Jan 2023
that the "incubator" forum here was open for everyone to join at the old forum.
"Der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Stamm." (German saying, "The apple does not fall far from the stem",
meaning that offspring is often not so different from parents) 
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Roman H. said :
Hello, as this thread will go long, please change "..... gets your sun going...."
Done
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Phoebe said (Sat 28 Jan 2023 20:04:38 CET):
Special thanks to Oliver and xphi. whose technical expertise made it all possible
Special thanks to Oliver , I did not contribute anything technically, at most prose
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Very interesting info with the mirror, and generally cool what kind of different "devices" they invented and used in the Renaissance for creating art...
Some comments on the elements below...
carabas said (Sun 29 Jan 2023 12:01:49 CET):
In Caravaggio's only fresco, an alchemical interpretation of the three brothers who rule Heaven, Earth and Sea.
Giove, Nettuno e Plutone - Wikipedia
(...)The three divinities can be associated with three elements: Jupiter (Air) Pluto (Earth) Neptune (Water)
which make up the three alchemical layers of matter (gaseous-solid-liquid).
The three divinities are associated with three symbolic animals which generally represent them:
Jupiter with the eagle, Pluto with Cerberus three-headed guardian of Hades in the underground cavities,
Neptune with the sea horse with gray fins.
At the center of the scene, painted on the ceiling of the Cardinale's distillery,
is the large luminous and transparent sphere that is positioned against the background of the cloudy sky.
Inside the sphere, a band rotates with the signs of the zodiac, including Pisces, Aries, Taurus and Gemini.
[...]
According to the English historian-artist Andrew Graham Dixon, the phallus in full view,
made visible only after the restoration since it was covered by a drape since the 19th century,
could also have a symbolic implication since the general theme of the painting
could be the role procreative of the three alchemical elements on whose seminal confluence the whole would depend.[10]
The Caravaggesque depiction is an allegory of the alchemical process,
the three gods represent the transmutation of matter into the three fundamental states (solid/liquid/gas),
from which the philosopher's stone is generated «as a hieroglyph of the universe and with it –
in imitation of Genesis – light, represented by the great luminous globe where the masculine principle,
the Sun and the feminine one, the Moon unite".[11] (...)
I generally agree with the above, although I would say that the "disk" at the center of the painting
is foremost the moon as the "great goddess",
the object in the sky that can "swallow" all others including the sun and be visible at any time of the day.
I am not sure what Caravaggio has been aware of or thinking exacly, but my interpretation would be
that the three gods also stand for the three primeval "fire" colors:
• Neptune - water 🜄 - "white"/bright (leukos) - day
• Zeus - air 🜁 - "red"/"fire color" (~ yellow to orange to red) (pyrros) - sun
• Hades - earth 🜃 - "black"/bright (melas) - night
Their animals roughly reflect those colors. In the Baba Yaga fairy tale, the first rider at dawn is white (day),
the second rider at sunrise is red (sun), the third rider at dusk is black (night),
while Baba Yaga via her 3 pairs of detached helping hands is clearly the triple goddess, most specifically Hecate.
The Four Riders of the Apocalypse also start with white-red-black and the fourth one,
the one that brings death, has the color "chloros" (as in chlorophyll),
which was most likely a pale green-yellow or something, quite like often the moon.
So, in the painting, I would say, the disk stands for the moon, for fire 🜂,
the energy that transforms matter into different forms, and also for the fifth element (✡),
which is in a way reborn fire in Aristotle's circle,
and also Artemis/Hecate for birth and death/rebirth (1st element fire, 5th element ether).
At least interpretations would circle around this at the prehistoric core,
but so far at least in the details what I wrote above is what Wikipedia might call "original work",
even though close to e.g. Robert Graves and others...
(More about this on my website, especially in the leads of the section "origins" or in the related articles...)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
The alchemical order is roughly from heavy to light, and is reflected in the painting, Hades nigredo/black/earth bottom right,
Poseidon albedo/white/water bottom left, the circle citrinitas/"chloros"/fire in the middle, and Zeus rubedo/"red"/air on top.
(Also reflected in my view in the 4 tasks of Psyche in Apuleius, first task earth (sorting seeds, just start),
second task water (feel into situation, wait for good moment), third task fire (need overview-light),
fourth task air (detailed plan, back and forth balance), but no place/time to explode this again in detail...)
There is an older sequence, in the order of a ripening mulberry (or other berries), white-"red"-black,
plus the berry comes from a bud which has roughly the color "chloros", light green,
representing the beginning and cyclically also the end.
There are certainly at least unconsciously/implictly reminiscences of the older views in the painting,
else the circle in the middle would not be so dominant...
But curling up again...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Piroschka said :
Mich stört es und ich finde es stümperhaft, dass der Forumsname anders lautet als der Name der Homepage.
Tja, bin gespannt, wie der zu gründende Trägerverein heissen wird...
Die Internet Domäne ("Website") astrologyinternational.org könnte in Zukunft durchaus noch andere Dinge als ein Forum beheimaten,
zumindest hatte ich das bei der Namenswahl so aufgefasst gehabt (und passt für mich recht gut)...
Also Teil der Organisation "Astrology International" wäre ein Forum namens "International Astrology Forum",
was für mich nicht schlecht passt...
Ich hoffe mal, der Verein würde eher "Astrology International" als etwas anderes werden, aber weiss es nicht...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
No Saturn-Venus aspects in Taj Mahal (Henry St. Claire Fredericks Jr.)*, plays beautifully but not funky,
but the guy at the soprano sax, Rudy Costa**, sounds funky, but not even a birth date found...
(PS: But don't want to dwell on that idea, either do some research and come back with results of whatever sort, or let it be...)
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal_(musician)
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Taj_Mahal
* https://www.discogs.com/release/2086891-Taj-Mahal-And-The-Hula-Blues-Taj-Mahal-And-The-Hula-Blues
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Oliver said (Mon 6 Feb 2023 14:44:08 CET):
If I may make a zany suggestion for the logo, it would be interesting if we could make it reflect the current phase of the moon,[...]
Let me know what you think of the idea.
Today I had the idea to maybe animate the phases in the logo (independently,
as far as there is such a thing, and, yes, apparently, SVGs can be animated),
but I like that with reflecting the moon phases better...
(PS: But also no "objection" to leaving it static)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Piroschka said :
Auf den Punkt gebracht, geht es mir darum, dass der Homepage-Name gleichzeitig ein perfekter Forumsname gewesen wäre,
der nun durch eine völlig unnötige Umstellung des wichtigsten Wortes (Astrology) auf den zweiten Platz "verschenkt" worden ist.
"Astrology International Forum": Die Organisation "Astrology International", die auch noch ein Forum betreibt,
wie viele andere Organisationen etc. um Astrologie herum.
"International Astrology Forum": Das Forum wo alle weltweit die sich für Astrologie interessieren
hingehen um zu schauen und ggf, auch was mitzumachen, bekanntzugeben, usw.
Das wäre "in a nutshell" wie ich das sähe, was zumindest das Potential dabei wäre...
So wie das Astrodienst Forum (u.A. auch wegen zentralem Domänennamen astro.com) in dem Sinn Nachfolger vom Usenet war.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Logos said (Wed 8 Feb 2023 08:38:36 CET):
Dann wäre die Seite aber nur auf ein Forum beschränkt und eben nicht ausbaufähig -
wie zuvor angedacht - ich meine es von Dir gelesen zu haben, s. Post 58 ?
@alle: Ich lasse es mal gut sein mit Astrologie.
Die letzten 20 Jahre erwuchs kein Interesse an meinen Beiträgen zur Astrologie.
Daher wäre jedes weitere Wort überflüssig.
Auf meiner Website exactphilosophy.net findet sich alles Wesentliche.
Danke allen vielmals für die Zeit.
@Logos Sehr surreale Logik, aber egal jetzt...
Liebe Grüsse, Alain...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Neptune switched degrees just a few hours ago... Sabian Symbols for the previous and the current degree... Freedom of interpretation/application...?
PISCES 24 An inhabited island.
Cultivation
The tiny island seems lost in the broad ocean but its happy
inhabitants have created a great world all their own.
PISCES 25 The purging of the priesthood.
Reformation
Ecclesiastical reform of drastic nature is in progress and a purged
and purified priestcraft opens a new ministry.
https://www.astro-seek.com/birth-chart/jose-feliciano-horoscope
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
tfive said (Thu 16 Feb 2023 08:00:14 CET):
[...] intellectual response by one member to an emotionally provocative comment [...]
In retrospect maybe not the best idea in terms of harmony to reopen the forum
with a Sun ("intellect"?) - Moon ("emotions"?) square, I guess...?
On the other hand, total harmony would arguably be practically no posts,
nd sometimes deeper harmony emerges only after some arguments...?
Regarding Piroschka: In my view and experience, she is very good at astrology, and also otherwise often very precise;
I remember at least two discussions (in the old forum) where I learned something and was wrong first...
So maybe reconsider what she wrote regarding the forum/site names etc., without taking it immediately personal,
just as input from somebody without "bad intentions", who could be "wrong" or "right"?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Piroschka said :
Thank you for your support, but the topic has turned out to be highly explosive and is now ticked off.
No problem, and in the future I will make myself comfortable here mainly as an onlooker.
Never sure what exactly one's own motivations are ("What people usually forget about the unconscious is that is it is unconscious."),
but at least consciously I was mainly addressing the forum or what I though/felt to be maybe in the interest of the forum...
I guess the quintessence of the Aquarian myth around Prometheus ("forethought") and Epimetheus ("afterthought") is
that it is good to think ahead and also from some point on to just act, and not reconsider again, at least for some time.
In practice difficult to say whether there has been "enough forethought" or not.
In my model of the star signs (zodiac signs), Aquarius is the last stage in a transformation of elements Fire to Air to Water,
hence still an air sign, but already filled with water, wanting to rain down equally on all,
driven by some universal love (water) not so much for individuals but for all,
with also some potential to project more than there really is or people want...
I guess the sun-moon square of the reopening could also somewhat reflect an Aquarian theme
(while the original opening/announcement had a sun-moon trine, if my memory is correct?).
Attached the current new moon (21 Jan, in the 5th) and the upcoming one (20 Feb, in the 12th)...
Curling up again...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
The current new moon of early Aquarius in the 5th
seems to mirror logo designs in this period,
where there were also discussions (in German) about whether a full circle would rather stand for sun or moon or both...
One of my ideas a couple of days ago has been to have a mouse that eats a moon made of cheese:
Starting with a yellow full moon (with some Emmentaler holes in it to make clear it is made of cheese),
a mouse to the right of it starts to eat it, carving out more and more a crescent on the left side during 14 days until new moon.
Then the mouse has grown fat and goes to sleep and gradually a crescent appears on the right side of the circle of the moon
and grows to a full moon again during another 14 days in which the sleeping mouse gradually gets thinner again,
wakes up at full moon and starts eating again.
Would be simple colors, shades of yellow to light brown for the moon and the mouse maybe white/beige.
Symbolically, the mouse would actually represent also the light of the sun that makes the different phases of the moon –
Robert Graves writes in "The Greek Myths" that priests of the "sun god" Apollon would wear mouse costumes.
Like all animals, a mouse would also relate to the realm of Artemis, "moon goddess".
According to legend, besides the cat also a mouse/rat was involved in the formation of the Chinese zodiac:
They promised each other to wake each other up in the morning, when all animals were summoned by Buddha to assemble for the zodiac,
but the mouse did not tell the cat, jumped onto the ox and when the ox arrived first,
the mouse jumped off the ox and became the first Chinese zodiac sign, thus the mouse also being a symbol of astrology
("first", similar to the spring point where the Western zodiac starts),
and also quite Aquarian as the Chinese new year is at new moon with the sun in Aquarius.
(((@Murmeltier: Personally, I am happy with the domain name and forum name
(and also with how they were settled, and to me they seem quite naturally settled),
while I would likely have named the future association rather after the first than the second
according to seemingly essentially promethean considerations,
but "les absents ont tort", "the absent ones are wrong", a French saying.)))
(Small correction: No sun-moon trine in the original chart of the announcement at the old forum,
sun 12° Capricorn, moon 24° Taurus, but a trine between sun and n.node,
and a trine in the ancient whole-sign way, see also attached chart.)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Samantha Bean said:
REGULUS 29LEO50
Note that that was the position in the year 2000.
Since around 2011, Regulus is in Virgo*.
The fixed stars move about 1° forward in 72 years due to precession, so a bit less than 1' forward per year (~50").
I find the fixed star calculator at astro-seek often very useful (by default shows 30 major stars, but you can select "All Stars (286)":
Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology, Online Calculator
(* See e.g. the n.node of Pres. Biden, or the moon of Nawalny, and in my experience recently many prominent figures in politics
seem to have turned up with something in early Virgo close to Regulus as the heart of the lion.)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
etherea said (Sat 18 Feb 2023 20:52:02 CET):
Hi @xphi
I wondered at the time if, when Regulus moved into Virgo, how that might feel for those born with something close to it in Leo.
Did power fall from their hands? Did it shift?
And, as Leo is the sign of monarchy, and Regulus a distinctly regal chart element, did it impact them?
Did it mean that more modesty (Virgo) is required, going forward?
Could all be. I consciously only know one person with planets in late Leo close to Regulus;
at the person's birth more than one planet was less than 1° behind Regulus.
That person was apparently roughly around 2010 close to not existing any more,
but I do not know the details, first met the person some years later, and also not sure how precise "2010" is.
Very difficult to say more without revealing more details, which is not possible,
but there are several indications that would seem to imply that there was "more Virgo" from that point in time,
also maybe in the sense of since then rather setting the stage for "royalty" than being prominent in person,
but not sure how exactly that was before "2010".
Also she does more than one thing (actually three) with quite some energy,
not sure if that was the same before.
etherea said (Sat 18 Feb 2023 08:40:42 CET):
Scheat: reputation for giving potential for drowning and general misfortune, plus similar about the downfall.
This is an interesting degree, coming as it does prior to the beginning of the Zodiac, 0degAries.
Kind of gives a "I'm fed up, done with this, outta here" energy, like the late winter, prior to bursts of new life into spring.
I was wondering if a retrograde planet makes a difference.
My Saturn (rx) at birth was at 29°05' Pisces, Scheat then at 28°53', and no obvious perils to life at least so far,
nothing with "drowning".
My mother had Venus (direct) at 29°15' Pisces, Scheat then at 28°31',
and she did almost drown when very roughly 10 years old
(and I don't remember at this moment a possible other "explanation" I had found some time ago),
she fell into the local river, someone saw it and fished her out.
Also, in 1964, in Kyoto, a lunatic killer had escaped on the only day my parents were not together there
and she did hide in a park where he wanted to kill her with a knife,
hiding in such a way that she could see him, but he could not see her.
In general, I guess, because fixed stars were apparently not much in focus of 20th century astrologers,
all the relativation regarding good/evil with potentials and possibilities to psychologically deal with them
that took place for planets did not happen much for the stars, which is maybe not ideal?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
One of my hypotheses around astrology is that Sedna would since its discovery in 2003/2004
have a similar role than Pluto had in the 20th century since its discovery in 1930,
namely set the general theme for the times, as also before Neptune did since 1946 and Uranus since 1781.
This hypothesis is based on essentially two more general hypotheses,
namely the hypothesis that astrology as practiced today and observed to work would be mainly shaped by humanity (collectively/unconsciously),
at least considerably more so than purely by objects in space,
and by the hypthesis that the first object (or at least the first round object -
rounded by gravity) discovered from a realm further out would be (collectively/unconsciously)
chosen to define the times until the next such discovery,
even if the object was not the only major object in that realm nor necessarily the largest or heaviest one.
Last time I looked, Pluto was observed to be slighly smaller than Eris, but Pluto potentially a little bit heavier,
and of course there are many more objects in similar orbits, as discovered since about 2002.
Now, assuming the hypothesis regarding Sedna was true,
Sedna would be the most important object to look at in terms of also mundane events,
so Sedna entering Gemini after having been in Taurus since its discovery would be a major change for the world.
What would you expect with Sedna moving into Gemini?
Before I get to that, let me note that new objects got domiciles assigned over time.
And so far it was backwards from the slowest traditional planet to faster ones:
Uranus got/took Aquarius from Saturn
Neptune got/took Pisces from Jupiter
Pluto got/took Scorpio from Mars
and accordingly it would be (in the hypothesis):
Sedna would have gotten/taken (Libra or Taurus?) from Venus...
The myths around Sedna, where she is described as a very beautiful woman, are maybe not conclusive regarding Libra or Taurus.
I would tend towards rather Libra than Taurus, but am not sure...
In any case, Sedna would have been placed very well in Taurus (and still is), and this might mirror all the "Kardashians"
and generally stardom in social media that is often first and foremost based on being femal,
on being beautiful rather than based on any specialized skill like acting or singing.
The maybe first such celebrity was Paris Hilton, whose sex tape "leaked" just around the discovery of Sedna,
and Kim Kardashian, friends with Paris Hilton at least at the time (I think), had also a sex tape "leaked" not so much later.
On the mundane level, one thing that seems significant, would be that money had become very important since about 2003,
economic power more important than military one, at least more so than in the past,
and also some Plutonian people lost their power (up to #MeToo).
Now, with Sedna in Gemini, I would expect trade to still be important, but it does appear like a split of the world
into two economic blocks could be the result.
There are obviously already signs of this happening since a few years.
One resulting block would be North America, Europe, Australia, Japan/Korea, the other China/Russia.
And there would be some countries where it is not so clear, yet, where they would end up,
like India or countries on the southern hemisphere.
South Africa, for example, is currently performing joint military drills with China and Russia...
(Side remark regarding Ukraine: Take a look at the currently active Mars return of Putin (ADB)
which has been active since roughly when there was the gigantic volcano eruption near Tonga in the South Pacific in January 2022,
and will be active until 31 Dec of this year.
If that was a major influence, do not expect the tone of the war to change in the Ukraine before 2024.)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Happy Pisces new moon...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
The Sedna myth is quite "phallic", in the immediate sense because in the arctic having a streamlined body means less surface per volume,
thus less loss of heat at the surface.
But Freud would likely also have interpreted it along this:
The husband she was given that turned out to have a "beak" (a "bird") may indicate
that she was married very young (or maybe also related to arctic conditions where you rarely ever see someone without clothes?).
The part with the cut fingers could be seen as detachment from the father as "first love",
moving on instead to many men represented by the resulting "submarines" of seals, fish, birds...
Certainly also relates a lot to Pluto, or also how to overcome Pluto,
coming from experience as subject to transgressions, the fates/lives of women at least in the past,
but in many instances still today.
I think that is also mirrored in society in recent years,
from individual men who have less power to suppress women to at larger scales Russia's Putin
whose atomic phallic rockets, submarines, etc. do not immediately give him supreme power any more,
nor power to Russia itself to "conquer" the beautiful lady Ukraine with access to the sea...
With the sea and age-old female experience, Sedna reminds also of the last/oldest water sign Pisces,
where Venus is traditionally exalted at 27° Pisces, where she was just a few days ago, and hey,
she apparently just entered Aries as I am finishing this post (the stuff below already written a few minutes ago)...
According to one of my hypotheses, with astrology to first order a creation of humanity or at least of nature on earth,
newly discovered objects would generally be expected to fit contemporary and future events better than ones in the past
(except maybe for larger/brighter objects like Uranus/Neptune or Vesta that eagles and the like could see without telescopes),
so going back in history related to Sedna might not reveal so much.
But that her first entry into Taurus was in 1965 might still relate to sexual liberation
that started pretty precisely in the mid 1960s.
About 20 years back in Usenet there was someone who related military a lot to Libra, and I think there is something to that.
Contrary to an individual warrior, in a military you usually need Saturn (exalted in Libra)
to structure the individiuals towards collective goals, and maybe Venus might be part of the needed "coherence",
but I have not thought on much along those lines.
Note also, as astrologers often mention, that Helena,
Paris' reward for giving Aphrodite/Venus precendence in terms of beauty against Hera and Athena,
was thus both related to Venus and the "cause" for a big war.
In terms of Sedna with potential domicile in Libra, a shift in warfare towards more drones etc. might fit well
all kinds of small moving often streamlined vessels that buzz around
and hopefully in the end mainly destroy each other but no longer human lives, just as toys for men?
I guess both Venus (one domicile Taurus) and Mercury (one domicile Gemini) are romantic,
because they only show up in the sky close to sunrise and sunset, close to the horizon.
So, Sedna into Gemini could give romatic poetry, songs, etc. a real boost,
and also maybe for a change "real" journalism again, and also maybe "real" diplomacy again?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I was just reading in Ray Manzarek's "Light My Fire" about the Doors...
Right now it is 1965 in the book and there is just Ray and Jim Morrison and Ray's girlfriend (and a bit later in 1967 wife) Dorothy Fujikawa.
She goes to work and the two guys are developing first songs.
And one thing they discuss many times is how dreams had travelled West from ancient Greece to Europe
and then to the East Coast of the USA and then "westward ho!" to The End at the pacific in L.A., funky Venice...
I had been aware of the latter (end of the west) but maybe not in context of "dreams",
so I thought to myself tonite that this might explain Hollywood...
What happens to dreams whey the get stuck, nowhere to go?
I guess they become movies, go all over the place, or maybe also into the Internet etc. ...
I did look at the Saturn-Neptune conjunction already a bit earlier than maybe most others,
because the third Saturn return of the second cycle for me is very close to the exact conjunction,
5 Feb for my return with Saturn still in the last degree of Pisces in the 9th and just ahead of Neptune 105 Artemis,
plus of course at sextiles Pluto and Uranus and, in my case, the moon opposite Neptune/Artemis/Saturn,
forming a dragon aspect figure (in the Huber terminology, I guess) with Neptune etc. at the head...
To me feels a lot like "Hollywood" even though I could not pinpoint exactly why,
but it could mean that something new would come out of Hollywood what nobody might have expected,
and maybe from other "places" but with similar symbolism...
And the return would also relate in terms of Saturn returns (two cycles) to the Uranus-Pluto conjunction in the mid 1960s,
so maybe also via that similar themes...
Maybe I just have to wait until maybe things evolve and a more analytical view on "why" would emerge...
Or maybe not, in 2026 the n.node will be in Pisces, so maybe not all that much analytically discoverable at all...
In any case, there would be quite some time for Neptune to load up on dreams at this time...
My return chart with aspects to Saturn highlighted, just for context...
(birth time is RR AA, and also in my experience for all that it appears at most 1 min wrong)
https://www.exactphilosophy.net/saturn-return-2-3of3.png
[added: chart at the link above:]
In any case, it does look like I will mostly just wait and dream until then, write a little,
but more likely considerably less than in past years of the 21st century...
Love the Pisces moon...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Roman H. said (Wed 22 Feb 2023 21:09:39 CET):
Anyway, as she is in the same sign for long, at the moment about 2 generations (usually much longer),
who could tell more of Sedna would be the ones with the most individual aspects, either ASC/DSC or Moon conjunct Sedna.
Sedna was at about 18° Taurus around its discovery, already quite close to my n.node at 21° Taurus (in 11),
so was a long transit across my n.node, in which I wrote very little on my website
(although quite a bit in Usenet and later in the astro.com forum),
maybe in a way mirroring less personal fingers to type on my site (the fingers that Sedna lost)
and more collective ones for writing in forums (11th house, the seals and other animals that her fingers became)...?
I started to write more on my website starting from about 2015 with Sedna at 24.x° Taurus,
and the first book in summer 2016, while now seems more like a shift to less overall,
to more just waiting on the ground of the ocean for people to dive down...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
For completness, I have added two charts below:
• The registration of the Internet domain astrologyinternational.org (Thu 29 Dec 2022 at 18:49:24 CET, 17:49:24 UTC),
with Dübendorf as the place, from where Oliver registered it.
• The announcement that the forum is open for everyone to join at this site astrologyinternational.org,
by Oliver in the astro.com forum (Mon 2 Jan 2023 at 16:37 CET, 15:37 UTC, see attachment),
with Zollikon as the place because that is where nominally the Astrodienst Villa is,
but Dübendorf from where I guess the announcement was made would have similar houses.
At the time, the forum was no yet hosted in Switzerland but instead somewhere in the US
and posts that were made there and users were not migrated.
Yet, there was already a forum at this domain and it continued almost without interuption,
so at least in my personal view, that chart might be important, too, or possibly even be the "birth chart" -
I am not sure, waiting for things to unfold and maybe clarify things a bit in time...
The announcement chart and the (28 Jan) opening chart are quite similar, very similar houses and both with the moon in Taurus.
For the annoucement chart, there seems to be a similar theme to the moon-sun square of the opening,
namely a moon-Saturn square, which could also be read as a variation of mother-father.
As I am writing this there is an almost exact transit of Pluto across the mean Lilith - mean Priapus axis of the announcement chart,
for example, and also close to the same axis for the opening. Note also Sedna at a sextile/trine to that axis for both charts...
(By the way: The server of the forum since the opening (28 Jan) is located near Geneva in Switzerland.)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I guess you meant one degree above for fixed stars ,
but anyways, to be consistent with the hypothesis I use larger orbs for Sedna when exploring,
same as for the planets moon to Pluto, so personally (using Liz Greene's orbs) 10° for conjunctions,
and seems at least to me to be so that orbs larger than one degree would have an effect with Sedna,
similarly to moon to Pluto, but as always in astrology difficult to be really sure...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Perfect Ninja Silence said (Thu 23 Feb 2023 00:10:11 CET):
Not from my side when I proposed the section for the forum...
I first mentioned "postmodern" in relation to astrology 1 Aug 2005 in a post titled "Turanga Leela"
to the Usenet newsgroup alt.astrology.tropical, among many other things related to solar system object "Lila"
that had been discovered and announced in late July (with Mercury rx),
was later temporarily named "Xena", and finally officially "Eris"...
I am not sure when exactly the talk by RH at the Britisch Astrological Associaton in 2005 was;
in a Usenet post of 25 May 2006 I wrote that it was "about nine months" ago,
which would nominally be around 26 Aug 2005, so not sure who was "first"...*
In any case, I certainly do see distinctively modern traits in 20th century astrology,
especially with Pluto and psychological astrology,
quite obviously in sync with other developments in art and generally in culture and politics,
and so on, and thus also a clear relation to "postmodern" in culture in general,
so quite the contrary of what I remember RH was talking about then,
rather "opening all gates" than closing up in exclusive clubs...
My post of 1 Aug 2005 starts like this:
Hi there,
This is an attempt of a postmodern post related to the discovery
of Planet X (2003UB313, "Planet Lila", likely to be named Xena).
One key property of postmodern art is that things are placed side
by side without being much related to each other. Or rather, the
relations do still exist, but they are not so bluntly shown, they
are rather felt.
That makes postmodernism aquarian. It is a Utopia where different
cultures coexist peacefully without disturbing each other, but
rather harmonically balancing each other.
Aquarius is the last Air sign, the last in a transformation from
Fire (Gemini) to Water, a transformation of visual impressions by
the conscious mind into a feeling of "universal love". Of course,
failure is also part of any Utopia, but that is rather due to the
mistake that most people do when confronted with Utopias, namely
that they try to realize them. That is when they turn sour.
So, this is just art, with lots of astrological connections, but
the individual images are rather at the center, not so much the
connections, at least not explicitly so. Feel free to see your
own set of connections in the following or to create you own new
images from it (or independently of it).
Maybe a look at the "superflat" art of 1962 born Japanese artist
Takashi Murakami can better explain what I mean than millions of
words:
http://images.google.com/images?q=takashi murakami
So here it comes, rather it already started above...
[And then goes on with associations to Futurama, Olivier Messiaen's symphony, and a lot more...]
Takashi Murakami was born in 1962 with a ton of planets in Aquarius.
The novel "Bringing up Girls in Bohemia" by Czech besteller author Michal Viewegh
starts with the following quote by Very Linhartova (*22 March 1938):
The oddest thing of all, the thing that most strikes us when we embark on a story is the total void spreading out before us.
The events have occurred and lie all around us in a continuous, formless mass without beginning or end. We can start anywhere…
Certainly also relates to her sun at the beginning of spring, but I guess also to her Jupiter in Aquarius...
In the novel the first-person narrator is a talking to his wife about writing a postmodern novel,
and generally a lot in post-1989 Prague is postmodern in the novel...
But coming back to astrology...
What I see as quite postmodern, for example, is to look at asteroids and other smaller objects in space
with names that are the same or similar to issues at hand.
For example in relations at objects with the same or similar names than the people in the relations,
or when there is something happening at Wuhan, look where the respective object(s) is/are, and so on, all quite associative.
Or generally to view all methods in astrology as "equal".
As a physicist, I agree that in practice a lot works to some degree, or rather "all" with varying degrees (and often more than expected),
but I also disagree in principle, because some things really work a lot better than others,
and in a postmodern world that is often simply ignored, everybody is just doing their thing,
practicing usually some mainstream astology plus some more or less "exotic" individual pet theories...
Another example for postmodern astrology would be my "book of changes" approach to astrology of 2004 (see my website),
where among other things, I associate astrological "things" by their numbers, so first sign Aries with first planet Sun,
first house, first aspect conjunction, ascendent, first element fire, and so on, in quite some specific detail,
sometimes as traditionally done, sometimes rather not.
* PS: RH's talk was a bit later in 2005, quoting from "The Mountain Astrologer" Feb./Mar. 2005 p.81:
"September 30 – October 4, 2005: 37th Annual Conference: “Many Tongues, One Language,”
organized by the Astrological Association of Great Britain, York, United Kingdom."
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
If you live near Zürich in Switzerland, there is currently an exhibition about Sedna at the "North American Native Museum", until 17 September....
English: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/kultur/en/index/institutionen/native_american_and_inuit_cultures.html
Deutsch: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/kultur/de/index/institutionen/nonam_indianer_inuit_kulturen.html
20 years ago, the sea goddess Sedna made her first appearance at NONAM. Now she is back -
as the main character of the anniversary exhibition about art, culture and climate change in the Arctic.
With the Cerny Inuit Collection, NONAM is celebrating 20 years in the Seefeld and 60 years as a museum.
Sedna is one of the most significant figures in the cosmos of the Inuit and other polar cultures.
As the mother of the sea creatures, she decides whether people go hungry or get full.
Her myths and legends are as varied as the people who tell them.
In art she appears sometimes as a hunting ruler, at other times caught in a fishing net.
She stands for mythical times as well as for the great challenges of the present.
The museum is near Tiefenbrunnen, which litterally means "deep fountain", on the sunny/rich side of the lake,
actually quite close to the Astrodienst Villa, and just a few steps behind a street
that has some kind of "Riviera" feeling with some Italian Restaurants in the evening sun,
and yet a quite different world around the musuem, more in the shadows...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hi PNS, I am not really back, just dreaming a little...
I have attached my two posts related to a postmodern forum section from the "incubator forum" – as images –,
they were originally posted 5 and 6 Jan 2023.
Wikipedia defines "modernism" as both a philosophical and arts movement that arose from broad transformations
in Western society during the late 19th and early 20th centuries,
but of course in everyday use "modern" usually means "contemporary/new"
and arguably modernisn did not end completely (at least not yet)
and accordingly postmodernism would not have fully started, at least not yet...
Modernism - Wikipedia
In any case, I was very likely mainly picking up collective waves in the collective unconscious at the time in summer 2005.
All in all, the discovery of Eris was also the end of Pluto as a planet.
And since Pluto had been so huge in much of the 20th century both for individual fates and countries etc.,
with Pluto losing the status of a planet in August 2006,
any views that see astrology as caused by or mirrored from the sky were no longer tenable from a logical perspective
(tiny insignificant Pluto out there, huge Pluto in astrology),
I guess "traumatizing" many astrologers, and so they unconsciously escaped – in my personal perception –
in bascially two ways: One way was to go back to the past, back to times without any new objects discovered,
i.e. traditional astrology (yielding lots of very interesting facts about the history of astrology
and reviving older methods, etc.), the other was to declare all methods equal,
to ignore even the most blatant quantitative differences,
because it is arguably true that on some fundamental/philosophical level all views on anything are true...
(BTW, this can also be seen "in terms of Sedna", with all the different methods (modern, traditional, 21st century, etc.)
mirroring the seals and fish etc. that swarm around in digital and real worlds...)
Who was first...? To me it was important to leave clear traces in the past that I was first with a few fundamental ideas about nature,
while coining a term "postmodern astrology" is not part of it, and also the reasonings above around Pluto etc. not really much centrally.
This morning I guess it was mainly important to me to point out that the views of Robert Hand are not the whole picture
regarding "postmodern astrology", even though they are certainly also part of it,
so that in the end "traditional" and "postmodern" might actually be closer to each other in astrology
than each of them to "modern" astrology, and so on...
And, yes, most of what I published around astrology can be found on my website,
I just stopped to post links because in the past 20+ years that had zero impact,
I prefer to just let it rest and wait for knights (m/f/*) to come by the castle
or "dive down" and discover something they want to embrace and carry on...
And, yes, astrology is not really on the front page on my website, that is true,
but there is still quite some there already near the surface,
while the most fundamental stuff is really on the front page and yet so far almost completely invisible...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[Jan Martin said:
Eigentlich Basisastrologie, und ziemlich einfach und sicher anwendbar, aber scheinbar doch oft ignoriert oder übergangen:
Feuer + Erde : heißer Sand = konservativ mit geringer Beweglichkeit; die Dinge bleiben wie sie sind
Feuer + Luft : heiße Luft = aufsteigende Energie mit hoher Beweglichkeit; etwas Neues kann entstehen
Feuer + Wasser : es kocht = ein Garprozeß mit Dampferzeugung; mit Luft wird von Natur aus ein weiteres Element involviert
Erde + Luft : Sandsturm = Energie und Reibung; große Kraftanstrengung zum Vorwärtskommen nötig
Erde + Wasser : Schlamm = ein Festsitzen oft in der Vergangenheit; große Unbeweglichkeit
Luft + Wasser : Nebel und Gischt = keine klare Sicht; verschwommene Wahrnehmung und eingeschränkte kognitive Fähigkeiten]
Sehr interessant.
Mir ist eine Kleingkeit aufgefallen: Das Element Erde ist bei Aristoteles trocken und somit auch hart
(und brüchig, wie er argumentiert), also Sand als generelles Bild für Erde würde da unmittelbar weniger gut passen.
Also vielleicht improvisiert:
Feuer + Erde : glühende Kohle = ...?
Erde + Luft : Praktisch keine Vermischung/Wechselwirkung = ...?
In China bei den Trigrammen ist es etwas anders herum, da ist Erde (Mutter) nachgiebig,
vielleicht wie Löss der von einem Fluss abgelagert wurde,
währenddem der Berg (einer der drei Söhne) hart/unnachgiebig ist, wie vielleicht erstarrte Lava.
[Jan Martin replied:
Das ist interessant @xphi.
Allerdings ist Kohle streng genommen nicht Gestein sondern versteinerte Biomasse
die jede Menge brennfähige Energie enthält, im Gegensatz zu Stein oder Erde.
In Hamburg gibt es seit kurzem einen Lavagestein-Energiespeicher zur Einspeicherung von überschüssiger Windenergie; das Prinzip funktioniert.
Praktisch keine Vermischung von Erde und Luft; najaaa, auch nicht so ganz zutreffend.
Ich hatte vor 30 Jahren mal das Glück, in der californischen Wüste eine Sandhose sehen zu dürfen,
desweiteren sind Sandstürme in Wüstengegenden völlig normal
und mehrmals im Jahr schafft es Saharastaub sogar bis nach Norddeutschland und lagert sich überall ab.
Übergriffiger Saharastaub ist auf den Kanaren völlig normal.
Meine Oma hat sich zur Gartenarbeit immer ein Kopftuch umgebunden,
um den Staub aus ihren Haaren 'rauszuhalten; damals gab es noch richtige Sommer mit staubtrockenen Gärten.]
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Thanks, too...
And I am still astonished how completely invisible my website still is...
My best guess for that is still my Saturn return of 1996, so maybe would change from 2025/2026 on, might see...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Some music related to my "Turanga Leela" Usenet post of 2005...
A few days ago I saw a concert in Montreal by Maxime Morin (born
1966/6/6) that took place July 5th/05, all in the rain (Aquarius)
with several "songs" flowing into each other, mixed with other
impressions. The recent album "Chill 'Em All" has 11 songs on it.
No Heaven (DJ Champion)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I was just thinking about...
Then you flew your lear jet up to Nova Scotia
To see the total eclipse of the sun
from the song "You're So Vain" by Carly Simon (and which I suspect is simply about more than one guy she knew then),
or also about Rachel Weisz who was born the day of a solar eclipse in London 7 March 1970
(a big total solar eclipse in the USA, like the upcoming one in 2024)...
I guess would be quite surreal to fly up to London on a Wednesday Thursday afternoon for a drink,
not to speak about climate, but I also like surreal, so at least not a "no" yet...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Regarding "Turanga Leela", attached is the chart of the newsgroup alt.astrology.tropical where I posted it.
The group started only a week after 9/11 in September 2001, so it was quite a feat to make something good out of it.
It appears the principal "architect" was "Pete Phoenix", one of the moderators,
as far as I remember an astrologer from GB with real first name Patrick, sun in Pisces.
To me there was a special magic at a.a.t, after all my must fundamental finding was first posted there,
at a time where I was often posting there...
I only got there in late May 2003, before that regarding astrology posting to alt.astrology.moderated since June 2002.
But back to "Turanga Leela" and hence the discovery of Eris (first temporarily named "Lila", then "Xena")...
Pete P could not consciously have known back in September 2001, but he placed Eris right at the IC of the chart of a.a.t...
alt.astrology.tropical chart
Source for the data and some words by Pete P and others about the chart:
The data for the formation of alt.astrology.tropical is 18th September 2001;
14.12hrs, CDT; Lisle, Illinois. ~Pete
By the way, I just thought of another Usenet post of mine to a.a.t, titled "Lac des Cygnes", literally "Swan Lake",
but in French sounds also like "lac des signes", "lake of signs",
and in a way that post symbolically lead already to the forum at astro.com,
but I did not say anything specifically about that then, and was about two years before the forum opened anyways,
and also some kind of "postmodern" the post, mixing also sideral considerations in,
and more...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Just a tiny glimpse at the "magic" of aat (and usenet in general to some degree)...
Yesterday I was looking for the birth chart of aat at groups.google.com
and thus looking through many (of the remaining) old posts from the beginning of the group,
and even though much of it was not very interesting during that time,
I stumbled upon the words "babble on" in a post or even as the subject.
As you may know, in the U.S. the movie "Babylon" opened pretty close to
when the "announcement" to maybe close the forum at astro.com was made 20 Dec 2022,
close to the new moon in early capricorn
(and shortly after Jupiter entered Aries for good in this cycle)...
Now, Babylon is among other things famous for the legend of the tower they wanted to build
and which failed due to the people involved speaking different languages,
and "babble on" sounds very similar to "Babylon", while "babble on" may also – I guess –
be how many "outsiders" view discussion forums in general.
So mirrors some themes at this and the previous multilingual forum
(and usenet, which operated in so many languages),
and here probably more mixed than ever in history, at least regarding astrology,
and with culture overall having since the haydays of Babylon in the roaring 1920s also somewhat "merged" and "mixed",
and with good automatic translations becoming more and more convenient,
it looks like "babble on" might really be on a realistic path this time,
probably will take some leisure (n.node+Uranus in Taurus),
but might eventually reach utopic (or is it utopian?) postmodern nirvana...
Curling up again, this time I guess for a while,
but might still wake up at some point for some more public action maybe
(never say never in showbusiness, and maybe about font design, the 2020s and Uranus?),
and I love that current Pisces new moon in the 12th (for CET at least),
always good for my Saturn/Cheiron in Pisces to have some company...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Mohn said (Mon 27 Feb 2023 22:51:21 CET):
Naja. In erster Linie ist es mir noch zu aufgeräumt hier. Anscheinend brauche ich eher kreatives Chaos und den Zufall.
Sofern man ihn so nennen möchte. Mich ermüden auch diese rigiden Chart-Zeige-Regeln.
Mit der Folge, daß das meiste hier auf der Schriftspur erfolgt.
Ich erfasse ein Chart in wenigen Momenten, Konstellationen reingetippt in Zeilen
gehen ins eine Ohr rein und direkt aus dem anderen Ohr wieder raus...
Was wohl noch dazukommt, ist dass hier mind. momentan etwas anders ist bzgl. Bildern als es beim alten Forum war:
Wenn man auf "Insert Image" klickt (das Icon mit dem Bild) und dann dort das Bild via "By URL"
(Icon mit den zwei Kettengliedern) einfügt, dann hat das den Effekt, dass das Bild von der Website,
die angegeben wurde, ins Forum kopiert wird, also wenn man das Copyright für das Bild nicht hat,
wird es dann von astrologyinternational.org gehostet was dann oft problematisch ist.
Beim alten Forum war der Link auf die andere Website, also das Bild blieb dort,
nur der Webbrowser bei wem auch immer das las, holte sich dann das Bild,
war also vom Copyright her praktisch völlig unproblematisch.
Seit ich das weiss, poste ich hier kaum je irgendein Bild aus dem Internet,
was es eben bis auf Charts auf fast nur Text reduziert.
Ich weiss nicht, ob die Forumssoftware erlauben würde, das anders zu machen.
So wie es jetzt ist hat es u.A. den Vorteil dass auch in 10 Jahren das Bild noch da wäre,
wo der Link auf eine andere Website öfters nicht mehr tun würde.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Kann jemand Originalquellen zitieren, woraus klar würde was z.B. mit "28° Steinbock" Erhöhung für Mars gemeint war:
- 27.5° - 28.5°? (also ±0.5° um 28° rum)
- 27.0° - 27.999...°? (also 28. Grad)
- 28.0° - 28.999...°? (also 28.x°)
- Oder noch was anderes? Oder vielleicht erst mit der Zeit genauer definiert worden??
Ich weiss noch, dass ich zur Erhöhung des Mondes um 3° Stier mal nachgeschaut hatte
und mind. bei Ptolemäus das für das Grad nicht genauer stand..
Dieses Jahr (1.1.2023 00:00) für Mitteleuropäische Zeit ist der Mond auf 3°07'04",
also wäre interessant zu wissen ob der Mond dieses Jahr "supererhöht" ist oder nicht...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Sun 5 Mar 2023 22:36:26 CET):
Und da die alten Astrologen ja eher mit ganzen Gradwerten arbeiteten, werden wohl keine krummen Werte verwendet bzw. angegeben worden sein.
Das könnte ein Indiz sein.
Also, dass sie gar nicht genauer berechneten bzw. auch kaum konnten als etwa auf ein Grad genau.
In dem Fall wäre 3° Stier wohl so grob gerundet 3° gewesen, also grob 2.5° bis 3.5°,
aber eben, auch das soweit reine Vermutung...
In den Fall jedenfalls wäre 2023 in Mitteleuropa rum der Mond fast exakt "supererhöht"...
PS: Der Neumond vom 22. April 1943 um 22:43:23 in Galmpton (Devon) wäre auf 2°35' Stier gewesen,
und im Anschluss schrieb Robert Graves in sehr kurzer Zeit die erste Version von "The White Goddess",
wo es ja zentral um den Mond geht.
Das wäre mit der Definition "gerundet" bei 3°, und auch bei einer Definition "3. Grad",
aber nicht bei einer Definition "3.x°".
Aber ja, das mit grob Runden scheint soweit schon plausibel als ursprüngliche Definition...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Sun 5 Mar 2023 23:51:46 CET):
Naja, wobei das astrologische Jahr ja eigentlich jeweils erst dann beginnt, wenn die Sonne auf 0° Widder steht.
Und täglich grüsst das Murmeltier...
Das ist nichts derart unübliches was ich tue, Dane Rudhyar z.B. hat es mind. für das 20. Jh. gemacht,
und in meiner Erfahrung funktioniert das gut,
aber siehe meine früheren Posts von früheren Foren oder auch einen der Artikel auf meiner Website
wenn's jemanden wirklich interessiert, nicht zuletzt wären die 2020er in der Hinsicht betrachtet sehr aufschlussreich...
Aber zurück zu den vermutet ganzen Graden.
Dann wäre 29°, das anaretische Grad, wohl so grob von 28.5° bis 29.5°, und 0° von 29.5° bis 0.5°,
also wohl das am ehesten die Lesart von den Graden, was vielleicht auch erklären könnte
wieso in den Interpretationen die nächsten Zeichen schon "zum Voraus" wirken konnten
der auch noch im Nachhinein, z.B. vielleicht einfach weil die Präzision noch zu gering war,
auch natürlich von Geburtsdaten bzw. der genauen Zeit selbst. Anyways, curling up again...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Here's tomorrow's ingress for Zürich (which is pretty much the same for all of Switzerland, hence also for the Forum),
Venus (who is exalted in Pisces) in Aries at the MC, which might be a good omen for Saturn*,
and (at least mean) black moon Lilith in Leo at the AC...
If I got it right, this will be the only ingress into Pisces of this cycle,
will go retrograde around mid June at about 7.x° Pisces, station in early November at 1.x° Pisces, and then go forward again...
So the ingress would probably "count" for the whole period, at least to the degree that such ingresses might shape things...
* And by the way close to my natal moon in 10...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Momo said (Tue 7 Mar 2023 08:17:00 CET):
In der klassischen Astrologie - Individualastrologie ,
ist der letzte Grad 30° von 29° bis 29°59´
der anaretische Grad
Darum ging's ja gerade, aber hat wohl keinen Sinn mehr zu schreiben, einfach weiter oben meine Beiträge nachlesen, "der Pfarrer tauft nicht 2x"
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Momo said (Tue 7 Mar 2023 17:11:25 CET):
Doch ich hatte es gelesen.
Andere Anwendungen werden auch in Bogenminuten definiert.
z.B. der Orbis einer Cazimi- Stellung zur Sonne in Länge und Breite
= 00 Grad und 16 Bogenminuten .
Oder die 12 er Teilung eines Zeichens ,
Duodecima Signorum :
Beginnend mit 00° 00´- Widder , 2° 30´ Stier, 5° 00 ´Zwilling, 7° 30´ Krebs etc.
oder Novenaria Signorum: Nine Part ( für das 9 Haus) jeweils 3° 20´
Zu Cazimi habe ich gerade geschaut was Chris Brennan in "Hellenistic Astrology" dazu schreibt,
auf Seite 204+205. Demnach hätte Rhetorius (wohl 6. Jh. n.Chr.) erstmals etwas in der Art erwähnt,
noch mit innerhalb 1° von der Sonne aber noch ohne Namen oder Bezug zu "im Herz",
das wäre dann etwas später mit Abu Mashar (8./9. Jh.) und "al-Qabisi" gekommen
inkl. das mit den 16 Bogenminuten und Namen.
Wo ich das mit ganzen Graden sah wäre eher um die Zeit von Ptolemäus (ca. 100 n.Chr.) gewesen,
wo auch die Erhöhungen wohl erstmals erwähnt wurden, daher bleibt mal die Vermutung,
aber ohne weiter an den Quellen forschen schwierig für mich zu beurteilen was wann war...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
The second to last concert of the Doors with Jim Morrison, 11 Dec 1970 in Dallas TX...
Jim Morrison not really..., well..., but I do love the theatralical contrast it creates with the others playing
plus the periodic tape speed changes.
I'm not sure if the recording of the song was before these last concerts or afterwards,
the book by Ray Manzarek was not all too clear to me...
Below Jim Morrison (RR AA) relocated to Venice CA, and outside New Year 2023 also for Venice CA,
I guess chosen for the moon that is very similar in both.
At birth the moon in the 3rd, I guess the poet from the soil he lives on up,
which is also why I find it interesting that he has Quaoar early in Libra close to Neptune
(see mythology of Quaoar, where the create land out of water).
When Jim Morrison and Ray Manzarek met at the beach of Venice in July 1965 and started the Doors,
Jim was apparently kicking up water while walking near the beach
(or some other time maybe, who knows... ;)),
and in the sort of fictional "The Poet in Exile" (2002) also by Ray Manzarek,
the Poet does the same, and calls the drops that reflect in the sun diamonds - what else do you need? -
which makes me think of Saturn in Pisces, where Saturn was around 1965...
Jim Morrison, horoscope for birth date 8 December 1943, born in Melbourne, with Astrodata...
Obviously more could be said, but I guess Saturn would he minimal?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/10/iran-saudi-arabia-agree-restore-ties-china-talks
Iran and Saudi Arabia, the two great oil-producing rivals of the Middle East,
have agreed to restore ties and reopen embassies seven years after relations were severed.
The agreement came after Chinese-brokered talks held in Beijing. “As a result of the talks,
Iran and Saudi Arabia agreed to resume diplomatic relations and reopen embassies …
within two months,” Iran’s state news agency Irna reported, citing a joint statement.
Here is a chart for yesterday noon for Riad without houses, with focus on aspects to Sedna.
iran-saudi-deal-day.png
Ongoing are the trine to Pluto and the square to Saturn, plus there are a trine to Ceres,
octiles (semi-squares) to the Jupiter/Chiron conjunction, and a semi-sextile to Juno.
Note that Pluto-Sedna-Ceres form a grand trine.
(Note also that in January 2022 at the grand volcano eruption near Tonga and also close to Putin-ADB's most recent Mars return,
there was a conjunction of Sedna, Ceres and n.node already in late Taurus,
so the trine of Ceres to Sedna might mirror a certain "boost" to Russia in the war in the Ukraine.)
Independently of what whether the symbolic story behind these developments might be majorly shaped by Sedna or not,
since also China is involved so much, it seems like it might be a good idea for at least some astrologers in the "West"
to get better aquainted with Chinese astrology (beyond the usual assignments of zodiac signs and Wu Xing
("Chinese elements", but at their roots rather planets Mercury-Saturn) to years and down to double hours)?
PS: Regarding the last paragraph: Pisces is among other things about seeing the world from the perspective of others,
and with Saturn now in Pisces that is something that now immediately lacks, but also something worth to build up,
create solid knowledge, step-by-step. My Saturn is in the last degree of Pisces, and in way that universal spot
is something I am trying to reproduce with some kind of "Lego" version, tiny bricks still visible,
hence also the structure quite well known, but also already close to the real thing, at least hopefully...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I can give some information related to the discovery of Sedna, while at least to me it seems difficult to pinpoint a single "discovery chart",
as discovery took some time...
Sedna Discovery Image - NASA
These three panels show the first detection of the faint distant object dubbed "Sedna."
Imaged on November 14th from 6:32 to 9:38 Universal Time, Sedna was identified by the slight shift in position
noted in these three pictures taken at different times.
The year was 2003, and the photos were taken at the Samuel Oschin Telescope at Palomar Observatory (near San Diego CA).
I presume the photos were not taken by a human but rather a computer program,
and probably it was also a computer that selected candidates for a moving body,
but I am not sure about the details.
Since this was almost 20 years ago, maybe there was more manual work involved than would be today.
So I am not sure when the first human lay eyes on these photos.
But even if you look at the three photos, you cannot be sure whether it is rather a close and slow object
or rather one that is further out and faster, also depending on the direction of movement
(perpendicular to earth or towards or away from earth).
Without more data you cannot deduce that it is an object relatively far in an orbit around the sun.
Sedna (dwarf planet) - Wikipedia
Follow-up observations were made in November–December 2003 with the SMARTS (Small and Medium Research Telescope System)
at Cerro Tololo Inter-American Observatory in Chile, the Tenagra IV telescope in Nogales, Arizona,
and the Keck Observatory on Mauna Kea in Hawaii.
Combined with precovery observations taken at the Samuel Oschin telescope in August 2003,
and by the Near-Earth Asteroid Tracking consortium in 2001–2002,
these observations allowed accurate determination of its orbit.
The calculations showed that the object was moving along a distant highly eccentric orbit,
at a distance of 90.3 AU from the Sun.
So not sure from which point in time on, first humans would have been quite certain about the nature of the object
from its orbit and thus approximate size.
(Maybe already in November 2003, maybe only quite some time later, maybe only shortly before making public announcements.)
The announcement of the discovery was 15 March 2004,
see the homepage of Michael Brown at Caltech, apparently pretty much unchanged since the times:
https://web.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/sedna/
On 15 March 2004, astronomers from Caltech, Gemini Observatory, and Yale University
announced the discovery of the coldest, most distant object known to orbit the sun.
Related to me, Sedna appeared close to my n.node in Taurus (and the n.node was also there in transit),
and subsequently there was a very long transit of many years by Sedna over my n.node,
in which I remember very clearly, I could not do much in terms of my research
except that when I was doing things then maybe "deeper" and more minimal than before,
and in spring 2004 I made my most important discovery.
I guess there was already something to be felt in autumn 2003,
I remember that at the Usenet newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated
there were more fights than usual when the sun was in Scorpio,
but that may also have had other reasons.
Presumably there is anyways a similarity with Pisces, with the ocean,
announcement with the sun in Pisces, discovery with the sun near the south node, etc.
(Just in case: All I do is just pinpoint, I am not doing research regarding Sedna...)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I have colored/extrapolated the dotted line near the birth time:
The original scan of the birth certificate looks like ca. 200 dpi black and white only, ca. "fax quality",
with also the tendency to glob things somewhat together (see e.g. "Signature"),
then apparently printed out, stamped "GENEALOGY PURPOSES ONLY" twice,
plus scanned at ca. 600 dpi grayscale or color.
There had been quite some back and forth at ADB (see Wiki history there).
For all that it appears the last change of 21 March
to remove the alternate birth time 10:45 PM is scientifically not tenable,
should be reversed.
The situation is simply not clear enough to settle on just one time,
at least not based on the published birth certificate,
and the criteria at ADB should be solely collected birth data.
In case nobody noticed, the 6:45 PM birth time has the moon in late Pisces (28.x°),
the 10:45 PM birth time in early Aries (0.x°).
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hier Macron mit Progressionen/Transiten am Tag seiner Heirat mit Brigitte am 20.10.2007 (Quelle)...
Die progressive Sonne plus Venus waren da am AC, was wohl einen gewissen weiteren Bezug zu den aktuellen Pluto-Transiten macht...
Saturn war da etwa bei der Rückkehr gewesen.
Doch noch unten nur die Transite, dachte wegen Juno bzgl. "Heirat",
die französische Revolution (Bastillesturm) hat doch den n.Mondknoten im Skorpion, wenn ich mich recht erinnere?
ja, aber etwas weiter vorne, bei Pallas und MC von Macron ...
25.x° Skorpion n.Mondknoten am 14.7.1789. Brigitte bisher nicht angeschaut...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ah, am 14.7.1789 war Pluto auf etwa 18.5° Wassermann, da läuft Marcon's progressive Sonne drauf zu,
geschätzt so um 15° Wassermann momentan...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
(If you read anything here, don't miss the pun near the end... )
That about the watch and why he took it off is for all that it appears largely fake news.
Here is the complete interview, started almost exactly at 13:00 on Wed 22 March 2023 (place is the Elysée palace, 8ième arrondissment).
Link to the start of the interview 13:00:
At 13:11:17 he taps his watch audibly onto the table, and after that he removes it under the table.
Here a link to just before his watch hits the table:
Emmanuel Macron portait-il une montre à 80 000 euros durant son interview ?
L’entourage d’Emmanuel Macron explique que «le président de la République porte une montre Bell & Ross BR V1-92
personnalisée aux armoiries de la présidence de la République.
Il la porte très régulièrement depuis plus d’un an et demi»,
citant ainsi des clichés pris par sa photographe officielle,
le 28 octobre 2022, ou des occasions lors de voyages aux Etats-Unis ou au Qatar
pendant la Coupe du monde de football.
«Contrairement à ce qui est avancé sur les réseaux sociaux, le Président n’enlève pas sa montre
par souci de la dissimuler mais parce qu’il venait de la taper brutalement contre la table,
démine notre interlocuteur. Le bruit est clairement audible quelques secondes seulement avant le début
de la vidéo partagée sur les réseaux sociaux.»
Concernant le prix, l’entourage du Président assure que «cette montre ne coûte évidemment pas 80 000 euros.
Le prix est public et Bell & Rose est un fabricant qui a des partenariats avec de nombreuses institutions
dont l’armée et le groupe de sécurité de la présidence de la République».
Sur Internet, on trouve des versions non personnalisées de cette montre coûtant 2 400 euros.
The entourage of Emmanuel Macron explains that "the President of the Republic wears a Bell & Ross BR V1-92 watch
personalized with the coat of arms of the Presidency of the Republic. He wears it very regularly for over a year and a half,"
citing shots taken by his official photographer on October 28, 2022,
or occasions during trips to the United States or Qatar during the World Cup.
"Contrary to what is claimed on social networks, the President does not remove his watch
for the sake of concealing it but because he had just hit it brutally against the table,
demines our interlocutor. The noise is clearly audible only a few seconds before the start
of the video shared on social networks."
Regarding the price, the President's entourage ensures that "this watch obviously does not cost 80,000 euros.
The price is public and Bell & Rose is a manufacturer that has partnerships with many institutions
including the army and the security group of the Presidency of the Republic."
On the Internet, you can find non-personalized versions of this watch costing 2,400 euros.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
I guess the price of the watch (since personalized to the presidency) would be more than 2400 Euros,
how much more and whether (more likely?) tax payers paid for it, I don't know,
while it seems really like he took it off because it had hit the table.
"Bell & Rose" is a French watchmaker, although they apparently produce in Switzerland,
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_&_Ross
But some astrology...
Here is a chart with inside the moment the watch hit the table and outside Macron's birth chart...
Mercury at the MC in Aries (6.x° resp. 5.x°), Pluto at the DC, about to move under the "table" of the horizon...
There is a quincunx from Pluto to his natal Saturn near Regulus in the 2nd house
(and a semi-sextile to t.Saturn in the 8th house).
I guess "time" is not so bad as a general theme around the issue at hand.
Whether France can really afford to go to pension at 62 much longer on the one hand,
and on the other hand also about "good timing" to try to push through such a change
(with high inflation and thus people with low income already struggling)...
Hands would be Gemini and thus related to Mercury. Time and Saturn,
and Pluto for money, the underworld god hiding his precious metals under the surface...?
The beginning of the French revolution (storm of the Bastille 14 July 1789) had the moon in Aries –
often the moon is viewed as "the people" in mundane astrology.
Maybe neutrally, this would mean that the people would fight for their position
and not compromise unless they lose the fight, and might then also not hold much a grudge if they do?
Conversely, maybe Marcon was also right to remark in the interview that labor unions did not help
in any way to find a compromise that would be realistic further into the future.
So maybe time just ran out, was maybe overall in the end better to just try to push through the reform as it is
than not to change anything?
Always difficult to judge at the moment, but does not feel quite like "let them eat cake"
("Qu'ils mangent de la brioche") to me personally
(which was apparently fake news at the times, too, at least last time I read about it)...
Maybe try something like direct democracy in France at some point?
In Switzerland, a majority voted against obligatory 5 weeks holidays per year
(one week up from 4 weeks), presumably because they thought that it would be overall bad for Switzerland
if productivity was somewhat reduced, could cause some companies to lose competitive edge.
I had voted yes at the time, but since the majority was against it, I can also live with that...
I found a chart for the storm of the Bastille from one of my first posts "at some other forum" in early 2015...
Source for the time 13:30: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storming_of_the_Bastille
Interestingly I also brought up what Jung wrote in Aion about a Jupiter-Moon conjunction in that post:
Nach der mittelalterlichen Tradition sollen die Religion der Juden in der Konjunktion von Jupiter mit Saturn,
der Islam in Saturn konjunkt Venus, das Christentum in Saturn konjunkt Merkur und der Antichrist in Saturn konjunkt Mond ihren Ursprung haben.
According to medieval tradition, the religion of the Jews is said to originate in the conjunction of Jupiter with Saturn,
Islam in Saturn conjunct Venus, Christianity in Saturn conjunct Mercury, and the Antichrist in Saturn conjunct the Moon.
Did you notice that at the time Macron's watch hit the table, the Moon was at 12°07'43" Aries,
almost exactly where it was at the storm of the Bastille, 12°08'19" Aries......
And Jupiter at this time close, as well as Chiron (with somewhat similar meaning to Jupiter)...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Alfred Escher, u.A. Gründer der Credit Suisse im Jahr 1856, hatte die Sonne auf ca. 1° Fische (keine Geburtszeit bekannt)...
Er hatte auch Saturn in den Fischen, auf etwa 18.5° Fische, u.A. war er auch treibend beim Bau des Lindt-Escher Kanals,
was einige Überschwemmungen verhindert hatte, wohl passend zu Saturn und Fischen...
Und er hatte auch Pluto in den Fischen (25.x°)...
Alfred Escher, horoscope for birth date 20 February 1819, born in Zürich, with Astrodataban...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Jan Martin said (Sun 26 Mar 2023 23:19:55 CEST):
For example, a male native with Psyche in house 3 may meet many female persons who want him to be talkative,
join them on small journeys, write them nice love letters.
Very interesting. My 16 Psyche is in the first house, about 4° ahead of the AC, in relatively early Leo.
Difficult to be sure, but to me seems that women would mostly like me to be just around, be present,
without any particular expectation, but the way these things go, not so easy to be sure of anything,
might be all wrong...
But going to sleep again – if possible already at this time, with daylight savings time...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Not sure who is aware of this:
When Plato talked about the "soul", the word he used was "psychê", literally a butterfly...
I guess how a butterfly flutters from flower to flower, sometimes staying a while,
sometimes only briefly, overall almost unpredictable,
lead to associate the butterfly with how at least the conscious mind flutters from topic to topic...
And, of course, via the shape of the butterfly there is also a clearly sexual connotation...
(All in all, I guess also fitting with the Moon now in Gemini, by the way...)
Of Apuleius who wrote "The Golden Ass" (original title "Metamorphoseon Libri XI")
which contains the "myth" of Psyche not many works have been preserved.
One of them is a translation of Plato's "Phaedo" to Latin, where Socrates argues for the immortality of the soul,
he also wrote a book titled "On the God of Socrates" and one titled "On Plato and his Doctrine",
a biography of Plato plus an outline of part of Plato’s philosophy.
Quote from my website:
The four tasks of Psyche in Apuleius’ The Golden Ass are about elemental transformations of nominally the psyche.
The four tasks are in the middle of the book, nested threefold into the outer story of Lucius as an ass,
the fairy tale of Cupid and Psyche, and Psyche’s visits to different deities for help,
until she ends up at Venus who poses the four tasks to her.
While the two outmost stories are based in part on well-known older myths and folk tales,
and the ancient gods reflect their well-known natures, this appears not to be the case for Psyche’s tasks.
Instead it is more likely that Apuleius devised them himself or at least that they emerged around his time,
as a way to convey certain new ideas.
[...]
The original title of the book was Metamorphoseon Libri XI,
which is likely why Apuleius might have devised the tasks of Psyche as elemental transformations of the soul
and placed them at the very center of his masterpiece.
Some more improvised associations, as maybe inspiration, also from my website:
Apuleius lived in a very fruitful time in which many symbolic systems found a form to stay in for many centuries
by melting Greek and Egyptian/African views into something new:
Star signs got their attributed elements; in Stoicism the highest, lightest form of pneuma was called psychê;
in alchemy the transition towards the philosopher’s stone black-white-yellow-red is the same order of elements as apparently in Psyche’s tasks;
a mummy reminds of the chrysalis into which a caterpillar weaves itself and later emerges as a butterfly,
a cocoon as sort of a vessel towards a higher life;
leading back in time to silkworms, the changing colors of a mulberry and the great goddess,
or forward to then upcoming religions like Christianity that feature the idea of an immortal soul, and so on.
If you speak German, there was a long thread with lots of research around the origins of some of the stories
in Apuleius' "The Golden Ass" started in summer 2017 (titled "Amor & Psyche"),
and the infamous "Mondfaden" also contained quite a few references...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Roman H. said (Fri 24 Mar 2023 17:23:14 CET):
Steam would be Water and Fire I guess. If air is the main element, then water, it's rain, fog, cloud...?
Steam machine ("Dampfmaschine") would be Earth (the coal you burn), Fire (obviously),
Water (the water you evaporate), and finally Air ("steam"), plus all going in a circle,
like the fifth element according to Aristotle...
All in all, humanity using - or abusing - all elements of nature for its own goals...
Just a bit before Pluto entered Aquarius, the German philosopher Peter Sloterdijk
published a book titled "Die Reue des Prometheus" ("The Remorse of Prometheus") –
I have a copy since a few weeks but did not read it, yet, for various reasons essentially beyond my control...
Die Reue des Prometheus. Buch von Peter Sloterdijk (Suhrkamp Verlag)
Original German description by the publisher from the link above:
Die Reue des Prometheus
Von der Gabe des Feuers zur globalen Brandstiftung
Von jeher muss der Mensch seinen »Stoffwechsel mit der Natur« organisieren.
Für Marx war der wichtigste Faktor dabei die Arbeit.
Als Prometheus, dem Mythos zufolge, das Feuer auf die Erde brachte, kam ein weiterer entscheidender Input hinzu.
Seit Hunderttausenden Jahren wird es genutzt, um Nahrung zu garen und Werkzeuge zu härten.
In diesem Sinne lässt sich sagen: Alle Geschichte bedeutet die Geschichte von Applikationen des Feuers.
Doch wo Bäume sich vormals nur je einmal verbrennen ließen,
verschoben sich die Gewichte der Faktoren Arbeit und Feuer mit der Entdeckung unterirdischer Lagerstätten von Kohle und Öl.
Die moderne Menschheit, so Peter Sloterdijk, kann als ein Kollektiv von Brandstiftern gelten,
die an die unterirdischen Wälder und Moore Feuer legen.
Kehrte Prometheus heute auf die Erde zurück, würde er seine Gabe womöglich bereuen,
schließlich droht nicht weniger als die Ekpyrosis, der Untergang der Welt im Feuer.
Die Katastrophe verhindern kann nur ein neuer energetischer Pazifismus.
English:
The Repentance of Prometheus
From the gift of fire to global arson
From time immemorial, man has had to organize his "metabolism with nature".
For Marx, the most important factor in this was labor.
When Prometheus, according to myth, brought fire to earth, another crucial input was added.
For hundreds of thousands of years it has been used to cook food and harden tools.
In this sense, it can be said that all history means the history of applications of fire.
But where trees once could only be burned once each,
the weights of the factors of work and fire shifted with the discovery of underground deposits of coal and oil.
Modern humanity, according to Peter Sloterdijk, can be considered a collective of arsonists
who set fires to the underground forests and moors.
If Prometheus returned to earth today, he would possibly regret his gift;
after all, nothing less than ekpyrosis, the downfall of the world in fire, looms.
Only a new energetic pacifism can prevent the catastrophe.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Sexy Dancers - F.I.U., Lucerna Music Bar (2018)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Mein Gefühl wäre auch so wie bei Lucinde und Sitina, also Löwe AC.
Allerdings nicht so, dass ich mich da 100% sicher fühlen würde.
Mit Zwillinge AC wäre der Merkur im Skorpion der AC-Herrscher, mit Löwe AC die Sonne auch im Skorpion.
Und da Skorpion viel auch mit Selbstkontrolle zu tun hat, ist die Maske vielleicht schon von dem her was "fixes" (Skorpion fixes Zeichen),
plus Generation mit Pluto im Löwen, also schwer zu sagen so lange die Maske besteht...?
Gibt es ev. irgendeinen Vorfall, wo sie mal die Fassung verloren hätte?
Da sähe man ev. etwas mehr...
Was ich mir noch dachte, ist dass ein eigener Email-Server vielleicht gut zu einem Mond früh im Widder im 10. Haus passen könnte (also Löwe AC),
Server hosten so ca. Krebs/Mond, Widder Dinge für sich / geheim behalten,
10. Haus da ein Mailserver doch öffentlich im Internet sichtbar sein muss,
sonst kann niemand da was schicken...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Sufficiency said (Sun 2 Apr 2023 03:02:15 CEST):
Loved the video and the music, but the music it's self reminds me of a cross between 90's techno and a sort of salsa music.
The year is 1998...
Album: Sexy Dancers - Butcher's On The Road (1998)
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/1672350-Sexy-Dancers-Butchers-On-The-Road
The album title maybe even related to The Door's "Riders on the Storm"?
If I had to "file" the album somewhere, I guess would be relatively close to "70s funk" maybe...
Here's the classic video from that Album...
Sexy Dancers - Slim Jim
One of the two costume designers (and maybe also set designer?) of the video
went to school with me in Zürich in the 1980s;
she had fled from communist Czechoslovakia in the late 1970s
and returned there after the fall of the Iron Curtain
and studied set and costume design in Prague (DAMU)...🤡
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Das müsste dieses Foto sein:
Pete Souza/The White House/The White House
President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team,
receive an update on the mission against Osama bin Laden in the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011.
Deutsch:
Präsident Barack Obama und Vizepräsident Joe Biden sowie Mitglieder des nationalen Sicherheitsteams
erhalten am 1. Mai 2011 im Situation Room des Weißen Hauses Informationen über den aktuellen Stand der Mission gegen Osama bin Laden.
Verlinkt von:
Unprecedented access to the White House to relive the bin Laden raid
By Adam Levine, CNN
Updated 1:58 PM EDT, Mon May 2, 2016
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/30/politics/obama-osama-bin-laden-raid-situation-room/index.html
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Something probably worth mentioning is that Chariklo was very close to the Saturn-Pluto conjunction of January 2020.
Together with the meaning of her name ~ "spinning grace" and as the wife of Chiron who sacrificed his own immortality for Prometheus
to me she is also somewhat of the "grace of death",
but this view might very well also be colored by several of my personal experiences during that time (plus two very recently)...
Here a two brief extracts from what Melanie Reinhart wrote (not sure when exactly) about Chariklo:
CHARIKLO
Wife of Chiron
Chariklo
Saturn and Pluto made a single conjunction on 12.1.2020 at 22.46 degrees.
Chariklo is conjunct Saturn, once only, on 16.2.2020 (the day after her Solar Return!),
staying within orb of conjunction with both Saturn and Pluto until 2022.
[...]
To 'bear with', abide with, create sacred space or appropriate boundaries, to accompany and bear witness.
Chariklo's name means "Graceful Spinner" or "Spinning Grace"...
it may be that just as she spins, she can also unravel the tangled knots we sometimes encounter in the psyche.
Perhaps spinning an invisible, felt, order from chaos.
I had Covid (for the first time if going by positive test results) starting mid March this year,
and without going into details (was nominally from "flu" symptoms nothing extraordinary, but felt often different,
in a way also felt a little bit like "close to death", even though there seems to have not been any actual danger of that,
but often little energy), some things mentally unwound,
besides apparently some reliable new clarity regarding how to bring some of my findings to more people,
also an astonishing new opportunity at work, an interesting new project for me, out of the blue,
apparently also for almost as new from the people who cooked the idea up...
Chariklo is now roughly at 12.x° Aquarius, quite closely sextile my MC and somewhat opposite my sun (14.x° Leo).
Anyways, did you notice, "unwound", un-wound,
thus "wound" and the verb "wind" maybe related, spinning of fate? Maybe?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
etherea said (Sun 2 Apr 2023 12:34:16 CEST):
I have often correlated spinning and spinning wheels with the cosmic scenery,
as not just the planets but also our solar system is spinning along in a direction, not static.
Also, the zodiac "wheel" and its revolutions round and round.
I don't know if you have ever come across the concept of the 'mystic spiral",
where it seems we have dealt with something, then go on our way, only to meet the same topic at another level later on.
We have gone back to the location but a few steps up, so to speak.
Just like fibres under torsion, which is what thread or yarn is (essentially).
The "mystic spiral" is not something I was familiar with in that sense, but esp.
"We have gone back to the location but a few steps up, so to speak."
reminds me a lot of something German astrologer Thomas Ring once wrote
(unfortunately, the link I got it from in the past no longer works):
German original text:
Der einzige Baum im Camp von Oswestry
[dem Kriegsgefangenenlager in dem Thomas Ring nach seiner Gefangennahme im November 1916 zwei Jahre lang war],
eine Linde, hatte dem entlassenen Gefangenen aber eine Tröstung mitgegeben.
Als ich damals halb verhungert unter diesem Baume lag,
den Kreis der ewigen Wiederkehr mit der entsetzlichen Aussichtslosigkeit "es ist immer dasselbe" überdenkend,
kam in stiller Luft etwas in Spiralen heruntergeschwebt:
die Samenkugel der Linde mit Stiel und geschwungenem Führungsblatt.
Noch eine und noch eine. Das war der wahre Ausstieg!
Diese zylindrische Spirale brachte mir die Weisung: was von oben und von unten gesehen ein strenger Kreis ist,
läßt im Seitenblick ein Aufwärts und ein Abwärts zu.
Ebenso ist es mit dem Kreis der Prinzipien: ihre konkreten Entsprechungen ändern sich mit der Entwicklungshöhe,
auf der sie gelebt werden!
Translation to English:
The only tree in the camp of Oswestry
[the prisoner of war camp in which Thomas Ring was for two years after his capture in November 1916],
a linden tree, however, had given the released prisoner a consolation.
As I lay half-starved under this tree at that time,
thinking over the circle of the eternal return with the horrible hopelessness "it is always the same",
something came floating down in silent air in spirals:
the seed ball of the linden tree with stem and curved guiding leaf.
Another and another. This was the real exit!
This cylindrical spiral brought me the instruction: what is a strict circle seen from above and from below,
allows in the side view an upward and a downward movement.
It is the same with the circle of the principles: their concrete correspondences change with the height of development
on which they are lived!
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Thomas Ring had a Sagittarius sun, hence also intrinsically some Chiron/Chariklo themes,
and Chiron means "hand", and is also used as "chirality" for the way in which molecules turn,
including the DNA double helix...
I guess a mix of a movement forward (trad. ~ ""male"") and in cycles (trad. ~ ""female"")
combined into sustained progress...? The four elements transformed by the 5th?
Thomas Ring, horoscope for birth date 28 November 1892, born in Nürnberg, with...
(Chariklo would have been at 10.x° Capricorn.)
And about the "cosmic scenery":
Besides generally all the stuff up there usually seeming round and going in cycles
(hence I guess the 5th element going in circles and existing only in heaven according to Aristotle)
Are you are aware of "The Spindle of Necessity" in Plato's "Republic",
where also the souls of the dead are reincarnated
and Odysseus both by lot and in accordance with his own choice got/chose the fate of regular man for the next incarnation)...?
Plato, Republic, Book 10:
Plato, Republic, Book 10
Just a very brief extract, the story is quite long with many interesting things:
And the spindle turned on the knees of Necessity, and up above on each of the rims of the circles a Siren stood,
borne around in its revolution and uttering one sound, one note, and from all the eight there was the concord of a single harmony.
And there were another three [617c] who sat round about at equal intervals,
each one on her throne, the Fates, daughters of Necessity,
clad in white vestments with filleted heads, Lachesis, and Clotho, and Atropos,
who sang in unison with the music of the Sirens,
Lachesis singing the things that were, Clotho the things that are, and Atropos the things that are to be.
And Clotho with the touch of her right hand helped to turn the outer circumference of the spindle,
pausing from time to time.
Atropos with her left hand in like manner helped to turn the inner circles,
and Lachesis [617d] alternately with either hand lent a hand to each.
Myth of Er - Wikipedia
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Dann hatte ich vorher was falsches geschrieben mit Mond im 10. Haus für die Zeit 22:45 mit Löwe AC.
Jedenfalls, ich persönlich fände von ihrer Erscheinung wie schon gesagt soweit auch einen Löwe AC etwas wahrscheinlicher wie einen Zwillinge AC.
Vom Scan des Geburtszertifikats her, ist wohl umgekehrt eher 18:45 (Zwillinge AC) ein kleines bisschen wahrscheinlicher.
Aber alles nicht sicher aus meiner Warte gesehen...
Von dem her finde ich es schon etwas befremdlich,
dass in der ADB nur noch ein Geburtshoroskop gezeigt wird (das von 18:45),
und die mögliche Geburtszeit von 22:45 nur noch in den "Source Notes" erwähnt wird.
Könnte natürlich sein, dass der ADB noch mehr Infos/Quellen vorlägen, die sie nicht öffentlich machen würden bzw. nicht könnten
(aus rechtlichen Gründen, Schutz von Privatsphäre der Quellen, etc.), aber rein von dem her gesehen, was öffentlich sichtbar ist,
fände ich es falsch, sich so dediziert auf eine einzige Geburtszeit festzulegen.
Die Geburtszeit war ja viele Jahre schon ganz unbekannt gewesen,
einen unmittelbaren Druck für eine entweder/oder Entscheidung gab es sicher nicht...
Vielleicht wäre irgendwann mal eine von der ADB unabhängige Website mit selektiven Ergänzungen zur ADB sinnvoll im öffentlichen Interesse,
damit nicht eine einzige Website so viel Einfluss haben kann – auch wenn die bei der ADB sich sicher Mühe geben einen guten Job zu machen,
über den eigenen Schatten springen kann halt kaum je jemand, auch die ADB hat ein Gründunghoroskop und daher ihre Einseitigkeiten und blinden Flecke...
Aber es rufen wieder unmittelbar praktischere Dinge bei mir, "curling up again"...
PS: Etwas genauer gesagt, sollte bei ADB das Kriterium sein, was die Quellen zu den Geburtsdaten aussagen,
dafür ist die ADB da, möglichst verlässliche Infos zu sammel, auch um damit ggf. dann auch mal nachweisen zu können,
dass sich die Astrologie im Schicksal/Leben der Personen spiegelt.
Und der Scan vom Geburtszertifikat ist eben nicht ganz eindeutig.
Das wirft indirekt leider auch mehr Zweifel bei AA Ratings mit "birth record in hand" wenn dazu kein Bild vorhanden ist,
was Skeptiker z.B. genau dann aufbringen könnten, wenn jemand eine Studie präsentiert,
die Korrelationen zwischen Geburtsdaten und Schicksal/Leben aufzeigt,
in dem Sinn eben auch über Hillary Clinton hinaus ggf. negativer Einfluss auf den Status der Astrologie.
Aber jetzt vielleicht auch ein bisschen sehr dramatisiert.....
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
As you may know, legally getting Hillary Clinton's birth certificate was possible because she had reached the age of 75
and local laws allowed that then, at least for "GENEALOGY PURPOSES ONLY", I guess – I don't really know the full details...
Hence, a possible way to legally get a better feeling of whether that was a "6" or a "10" could be to research people
born around the same time in the same hospital as Hillary Clinton (e.g. using genealogy sites/databases)
and then ask authorities for the birth certificates of those elderly persons.
With a little luck, some of the birth certificates might have been filled out by the same person as the one for Hillary Clinton.
Obviously that would be quite some work, and if done in such an orchestrated manner,
maybe including several people who make individual requests, I would not be sure if that would be allowed by the law...
But in case it was legally admissible, such research might shed some more light on the most likely birth time.
(Of course, getting a close look on an original non-scanned birth certificate would be much better,
but that seems out of reach for many years without direct help from the native herself,
I presume, and even then that could also be seen as suspicious, depending of on which side of the "chasm" you might be.
Actually, there is in principle the possibility that the birth certificate was scanned
and then at some point the original destroyed, to economize physical storage space,
but that is just speculation on my side, so far.)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hier ist was in der ADB bei den Source Notes steht,
in der Form wie seit der letzten Änderung dort, vom 21. März 2023 um 21:21:
Alois Treindl: The reading of the birth hour as 6 or 10 is not 100% clear.
There are three other digits 6 on the document, which all have a rounded back.
The vertical stroke in the birth hour is very straight.
There is one other number 10 in the document.
If it had a thick base line like the birth time, it might look just the same.
After careful deliberation with some data researchers, we hold the reading as 6 for the most likely.
Auf deutsch (von mir manuell übersetzt):
Alois Treindl: Ob die Geburtsstunde als 6 oder 10 zu lesen ist, ist nicht 100% klar.
Es hat drei andere Ziffern 6 auf dem Dokument, welche alle einen abgerundeten Rücken haben.
Der vertikale Strich bei der Geburtszeit ist sehr gerade.
Es hat eine andere Zahl 10 im Dokument.
Wenn sie eine dicke Basislinie hätte, wie die Geburtszeit, könnte sie genau gleich aussehen.
Nach sorgfältiger Erwägung/Beratung mit einigen Datenforschern, erachten wir die Lesart als 6 als am Wahrscheinlichsten.
Ausser beim letzten Satz stimme ich dem zu 100% zu.
Ebenfalls beim letzten Satz, so wie er geschrieben ist – da wäre meine Tendenz schon auch ganz leicht zu einer 6,
und der Satz behauptet ja auch nicht, dass eine 10 ganz ausgeschlossen werden kann,
nur dass eine 6 den beteiligten Datenforschern wahrscheinlicher erschien.
Meine Kritik gegenüber der ADB bezieht sich lediglich darauf,
dass die zweite Horoskopzeichnung mit dem gleichen Edit der ADB ganz entfernt wurde.
(Also anders gesagt, ich erachte eine 10 doch noch als etwas wahrscheinlicher als vermutlich das Gros der Beteiligten bei der ADB.)
@Jan Martin, @Logos: Es ist völlig OK wenn ihr der Meinung seit, es wäre ein 6 und keine 10.
Was allerdings wissenschaftlich nicht haltbar ist – in meiner Meinung als ursprünglich (promovierter) Experimentalphysiker,
wie auch der Meinung der ADB (AT ist ja auch ursprünglich (promovierter) Experimentalphysiker) –
ist, dass eine 10 mit 100% Sicherheit ausgeschlossen werden kann.
Da Neptun erwähnt wurde: So ein Scan ist ja auch sowas wie ein Foto und damit (mind. im englischsprachigen Raum) typ. Neptun zugeordnet.
Jedenfalls scheinen mir sehr oft solche Fragen um die USA, wo die Antwort am Ende fast immer "schwammig" bleibt,
oft stark verbunden mit dem Neptun in der Jungfrau der USA,
die Analyse der Realität ("Jungfrau") endet oft in einer Überlagerung von verschiedenen Wellen ("Neptun"),
der reale Grund bleibt oft unerreichbar.
Übrigens, die oben erwähnte soweit letzte Änderung in der ADB war knapp nach Neumond, welcher auf etwa 0°50' Widder war,
also ein kleines bisschen vor dem Mond von Hillary Clinton für die Geburtszeit von 22:45 (Löwe AC),
und natürlich auch noch nahe vom Mond bei Geburt 6 Stunden früher (etwa 3° weniger weit),
plus die Änderung war schon im Frühling (Sonne im Widder)...
Ich denke bei Neumond eben immer wieder an das Sabische Symbol für 26° Fische,
wo übrigens seit geschätzt so um die 2 Wochen der Neptun ist:
"A new moon that divides its influences."
("Ein Neumond, der seine Einflüsse neu verteilt/aufteilt.").
Von dem her zumindest kein Wunder vielleicht, dass die Geburtszeit von Hillary Clinton hier Thema wurde...
Bei den Diskussionen, ob die Erscheinung zum AC passt, kann ich nicht so gut mitreden, ich kenne von viel zu wenig Leuten,
die ich persönlich kenne, die Häuser, und bei Celebrities ist es noch schwierig zu sagen was von dem was man sieht,
eher AC ist und was eher MC (das öffentliche Bild) wäre.
Ich persönlich, wenn ich da genauer reinschauen möchte (auch aufgrund der erwähnten Einschränkungen),
hätte mir am Ehesten die Saturnrückkehren von Hillary Clinton angeschaut, für beide Geburtszeiten,
und dort v.a. in welchen Häusern Saturn da war, plus den Aspekten, und dann geschaut,
welches Haus jeweils besser zu den Schritt für Schritt erarbeiteten Dingen von Hillary Clinton im jeweiligen Zeitraum passen würde.
Das würde allerdings auch bedingen, dass relativ klar wäre, wo zu dem jeweiligen Zeitraum ihr offizieller Wohnort war,
da das typ. der Ort zu sein scheint, den man für die Methode nehmen sollte...
Hier noch eine Kopie des von mir editierten Scans aus dem englischsprachigen Bereich.
Ich habe die vorgedruckte gestrichelte Linie extrapoliert mit rot.
Wenn man vergleicht, wie z.B. "Signature" darunter beim Scan viele Punkte schwarz machte,
kann eben nicht wirklich ausgeschlossen werden, dass eine 10 zusammen mit der gestrichelten Linie zu etwas verlaufen könnte,
dass dann wie ein Strich der eine 6 unten durch verbindet wirken kann, wenn auch eben,
wie schon geschrieben, meine Tendenz rein von der Erscheinung doch leicht zu eher einer 6 ginge.
Allerdings ist eben schon nicht leicht von der Hand zu weisen,
dass jemand, der eine 6 mit geschwungenem Rücken schreibt, und wohl jeweils oben beginnt,
dann kaum je den Rücken einer 6 derart grade machen würde?
Tja, ufert rasch mal aus, noch schönen Sonntagabend allerseits!
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Bei mir war der Transit t.Jupiter zu g.Mond vor etwa einer Woche exakt, da hatte ich mich so knapp von zwei Wochen Corona erholt (Test dann negativ),
aber doch noch praktisch eine ganze Woche weiter gehustet, aber der Mood durchaus auch recht traurig oft.
Allerdings da rum doch irgendwie auch Glück mit einem neuen interessanten Projekt aus blauem Himmel bei der Arbeit letzte Woche,
selbst die, die es vorschlugen, hatten die Idee dazu wohl auch erst auch aus gewissem Leidensdruck erst vor relativ Kurzem,
und auch zu was anderem mir persönlich noch viel Wichtigerm erwuchs mit noch etwas zuvor mehr Klarheit (als ich Corona "voll" hatte),
aber ob ich da alles nur Jupiter zuschreiben kann, weiss ich nicht recht...
(siehe auch den englischsprachigen Faden zu Chariklo).
Die Leute, die Jupiter-Mond bei Geburt konjunkt hatten, umfassen eben auch Hitler und George W. Bush (und auch Al Gore),
also scheint zumindest nicht was so einfaches zu sein mit Jupiter.
C.G. Jung schreibt in "Aion", dass laut mittelalterlicher Tradition das Judentum seinen Beginn in einer Jupiter-Saturn Konjunktion hatte,
das Christentum mit Jupiter-Merkur, der Islam mit Jupiter-Venus, und der Antichrist mit Jupiter-Mond...
(Jupiter war ja vor Neptun (alleiniger) Herrscher der Fische, auch daher für Religionen zuständig,
so denke ich mir das zumindest mit den Konjunktionen.)
Ja, und Chiron wird wohl auch bei mir bald drüberziehen, über den MC (ca. 12° Widder) ist der schon eine Weile drüber...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
In the music thread at the old astro.com forum,
@Sitina wrote a day after David Bowie passed away that she had once met him in Berlin*:
Link to the post (will likely disappear in a few weeks and the music thread is not in the PDF archive) of 11 Jan 2016:
Forum
Sobald die staendige Sucht nach ewigem Wachstum aufhoert, wird auch der Krebs keine Sterbeursache mehr sein.
Ich habe mit Bowie ( in Berlin) mal ne Partie Billard gespielt, in einer Schoeneberger Kneipe, 
Da waren wir voll auf Droge 
Seine Musik hat mich allerdings nie wirklich begeistert.
English (my manual translation):
As soon as the perpetual addiction for eternal growth stops, cancer will not longer be a cause of death.
I once played a game of billards with Bowie ( in Berlin), in a Schöneberg pub,
We were (fully) high on drugs then
His music never really excited me, though.
* I asked her if it was OK to share this here, and she said yes, actually she had already considered to contribute here,
but would have been more work for her because her English is not so fluent...
I hope the way I presented it, was ok...
I would be very interested to sort of know his houses...
I guess the asymmetric eyes would in my "symbolic world" be something with (early?) Aries, also Bohême,
with Libra rather the symmetry and thus likely Aries oppsite Aries the asymmetry,
also necessary to break things up for growth after winter (and Aries attributed to the head),
plus also a Moon theme, also since I guess the left eye would rather be the moon and the right one the sun?
But again, curious to maybe learn a bit more...
To me was also so that his music never really spoke to me in his lifetime, but that has somewhat changed since then,
also via some exchanges in the old forum, I had not been aware that there was also some kind of Avantgarde angle to Bowie...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
A close-up of an old tree in a small nature reserve nearby, mainly a pond with old oaks around it
and in the past they used to get clay from there; I made the photograph 12 March 2023,
also because it looks quite a bit like a landscape in the south of China with those high hills with round tops
(I have been doing some Chinese Ink painting since March/Pisces 2010)...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Das mit dem "Stopper" und "Selbstest" finde ich sehr interessant, deutet durchaus ein bisschen weg von einer "6".
Allerdings bei der schlechten Scanqualität könnte das doch auch ein Artefakt vom Scannen sein,
lässt sich zumindest nicht ganz sicher ausschliessen...
Die "0" beim Datum "10-28-47" links hat ja (ggf. "auch") eine recht kleine "0" (wenn auch über der Linie)
und der Abschluss oben ist (ggf. "auch") etwas "unperfekt".
Es sieht übrigens sehr stark danach aus, dass mind. 2 Personen auf dem Geburtszertifikat was ausgefüllt hatten (ev. auch mehr):
• Der Arzt, der unterschrieb (unter der Geburtszeit), wohl "Robert J. Hammer, M.D."* plus wohl auch von ihm selbst geschrieben
die Adresse und Telefonnummer, da nur dort Schnürchenschrift und scheinbar mind. etwas ähnliche Schrift wie bei seiner
sehr geschwungenen Unterschrift (seinem "John Hancock").
• Wer links davon das Datum "10-28-47" schrieb, ist nicht so ganz klar, scheint zumindest flüchtiger geschrieben worden sein als vieles weiter oben.
• Den Teil im Formular oben hätte 1947 wohl fast sicher eine Frau ausgefüllt, und ggf. eben auch das erwähnte Datum links der Unterschrift,
oder doch ev. der Arzt selbst, go figure...
Macht jedenfalls den geraden Bogen im Rücken der "6" schwieriger einzuschätzen,
da nicht klar ob es sonst überhaupt eine "6" von der gleichen Hand auf dem Zertifikat hat...
Ja, Graphologen fragen wäre sicher auch interessant, wer was schrieb, und wie es wohl geschrieben wurde (also Strichführung).
Wie gesagt, Neptun in der Jungfrau, wenn man mit dem Mikroskop reinzoomed, wird es nicht umbedingt eindeutiger,
eher mehr Optionen, die sich auftun...
* Ich hatte noch nach einem Arzt "Robert J. Hammer" gesucht, und einen gefunden, 1926 geboren war
und auch Bezug zu Chicago hätte, allerdings hätte er erst ab 1955 den Doktortitel gehabt, fällt also eher weg:
Robert Hammer Obituary (1926 - 2013) - Chicago, IL - Chicago Tribune
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Unten nochmal das Bild mit der vorgedruckten gestrichelten Linie auf dem Geburtszertifikat extrapoliert,
einmal rot einmal weiss.
Da ich stark vermute ("Wellenlinie"), dass nicht alle technisch allem folgen können, was ich beschrieb,
noch ein kleiner Versuch das etwas detaillierter näher zu bringen...
Allem Anschein nach, gab es ein vorgedrucktes Formular für das Geburtszertifikat, welches dann handschriftlich ausgefüllt wurde,
und dann wurde es gescanned, anscheinend ein reiner schwarz/weiss Scan mit ca. 200 dpi (Punkte pro Inch) ohne Graustufen,
was so grob das ist was Faxgeräte oft machten.
(Der Scan wurde dann anscheinend wohl noch von den Behörden in Chicago ausgedruckt, "GENEALOGY PURPOSES ONLY"
(ca. "NUR FÜR AHNENFORSCHUNG") 2x draufgestempelt, und am Ende wurde das (wohl vom Empfänger oder der ADB)
mit etwa 600 dpi mit Graustufen oder Farbe nochmals gescanned und so publiziert in der ADB.)
Ob ein Punkt schwarz oder weiss wurde beim ersten (s/w) Scan, hängt im Wesentlichen davon ab, wie hell das entsprechende Rasterfeld war,
also grob ob weniger als 50% vom Licht reflektiert wurde, wobei der genaue Grenzwert bei der Einstellung nicht bekannt ist.
Je nach dessen Einstellung, ist das Resultat eher fetter oder eher dünner wie das Original, bwz. je nachdem erscheinen Dinge,
die es nicht gab oder es verschwinden Dinge, die es gab.
Schaut doch mal auf die "5" bei der Geburtsminute "45".
Da scheint sich ja rechts beim Bogen der 5 etwas mit der vorgedruckten durchgezogenen Linie etwas "zusammengeklumpt" zu haben
(was fast "dreieckiges"), wäre also vermutlich eher so, dass da etwas erschien, das es auf dem Original ggf. gar nicht gab.
Was auch immer sein kann, ist dass Verfärbungen des Papiers (ist ja vom 1947, wann s/w gescanned nicht bekann)
oder lokale Verschmutzungen oder auch nur ein bisschen Staub auf der Fläche des Scanners solchen Dinge hervorrufen können.
Oder schaut mal links neben dem grossen roten Pfeil das Wort "Signature" an, da ist ja ganz viel zusammengeklumpt geworden durch den Scan.
Und jetzt zur Geburtsstunde...
Was da rot oder weiss eingefärbt ist, ist genau der Teil davon, der praktisch 100% sicher im Scan schwarz wird,
das ist die vorgedruckte gestrichelte Linie.
Nochmals: Was da rot oder weiss eingefärbt ist, ist genau der Teil davon, der praktisch 100% sicher im Scan schwarz wird,
das ist die vorgedruckte gestrichelte Linie.
Wenn man jetzt oberhalb der gestrichelten Linie schaut, könte es sehr gut sein, dass sich Teile einer "1" und einer "0"
mit den gestrichelten Linien etwas zusammengeklumpt hätten
(es sieht ja auch beim Datum "10-28-47" so aus wie unten bei der "1" sich was mit der gestrichelten Linie dort verbunden haben könnte),
und dadurch ein paar Punkte mehr schwarz wurden als es im Original wirklich gab.
Allerdings dass es auch ganz knapp unterhalb Unterseite der gestrichelten Linie weitere schwarze Punkte hat,
das ist schwieriger zu erklären, genau das wäre der Grund, wieso ich rein von dem Dokument/Scan her gesehen
leicht mehr zu einer "6" wie einer "10" tendiere.
Und eine "Wellenlinie" entsteht halt einfach wenn es eine handgeschriebene Linie
leicht unterhalb der gestrichelten vorgedruckten Linie hat...
Soweit einfach meine Sicht, also dass von dem vorliegenden elektronischen Bild des Geburtszertifikats,
mir eine "6" zwar leicht wahrscheinlicher scheint wie eine "10",
aber nicht genug wahrscheinlicher um auf der ADB nur die Horoskopzeichnung der einen Zeit zu führen.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Was man zu den Geburtsdaten der Eltern noch erwähnen könnte,
ist dass die zwar AA Rating haben in der ADB (Geburtszertifikat jeweils vorhanden),
aber die Zeiten volle Stunden sind, also ggf. auch nur etwa so genau,
also könnte ggf. die Geburt auch bis etwa 30 min früher oder später gewesen sein,
mit dann entsprechend etwas anderen Häusern.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
etherea said (Mon 3 Apr 2023 07:53:36 CEST):
@xphi.
Wow. And what is that lovely red plant in the foreground?
If only I knew...
I went there again today at noon and took another photo, with a small Swiss coin to give a better idea of the small scale,
is 50 Rappen, close to the size of a US Dime (10 Cents), about 18 mm or 3/4".
Not sure if the plant is growing normally or if something happend, did not seem like dying to me,
just got naturally closer to the "substrate" maybe...??
And there was nothing similar nearby that I could see...
The tree, with arrow to roughly the area of the image above...
Hints very welcome...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hillary Clinton breaks travel record
WASHINGTON (AP) — If diplomatic achievements were measured by the number of countries visited,
Hillary Rodham Clinton would be the most accomplished secretary of state in history.
Deutsch:
WASHINGTON (AP) - Würden diplomatische Erfolge an der Zahl der besuchten Länder gemessen,
wäre Hillary Rodham Clinton die erfolgreichste Außenministerin der Geschichte.
Der Artikel ist vom 17. Juli 2012, sie war 2009-2013 Aussenministerin, hier eine vollständige Liste der Reisen in der Amtszeit:
List of international trips made by Hillary Clinton as United States Secretary of Sta...
Wäre das, da (gezwungenermassen) kurze (wenn auch weite) Reisen, 3. Haus? (oder doch (auch) 9. Haus? Oder was noch...?)
3. Haus:
• Mit Zwillinge AC (18:45) wäre das 3. Haus die letzen ca. 7° vom Krebs bis ca. Mitte Löwe,
mit Pluto und Mars, allerdings beide schon sehr nahe vom IC (etwa 1° bzw. 1.5°)
• Mit Löwe AC (22:45) wäre das 3. Haus von etwa 20° Jungfrau bis etwa 20° Waage, mit Neptun dort, bereits in der Waage, noch etwa 9° vom IC entfernt.
9. Haus:
• Mit Zwillinge AC (18:45) wäre das 9. Haus die letzen ca. 7° vom Steinbock bis ca. Mitte Wassermann, mit Lilith Anfang Wassermann darin.
• Mit Löwe AC (22:45) wäre das 9. Haus von etwa 20° Fische bis etwa 20° Widder, mit dem Mond dort...
Welche Geburtszeit würde denn besser zu den vielen Reisen passen?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Der Stern-Artikel auf Deutsch scheint(!) etwas falsch übersetzt geworden zu sein:
Notable Supporters Talk About Why They Like Clinton
(Prominente Unterstützer sprechen darüber, warum sie Clinton mögen)
By Fernando Suarez
March 3, 2008 / 5:36 PM / CBS News
Notable Supporters Talk About Why They Like Clinton
[Ted] Danson continued making his case, "She [Hillary Clinton] will know exactly what is going on with your kids
and make sure they have health care and make sure they get an education.
When someone's mean to me, she's willing to spit in their eye.
Wouldn't it be great to have a president who would do that?"
Also "Wenn jemand fies/böse zu mir ist, ist sie bereit, ihm/ihnen ins Auge zu spucken."
Und wohl schon im übertragenen Sinn gemeint mit dem Spucken auf Englisch:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/spit-in-someones-eye
to deliberately upset or annoy someone
The minister for Trade and Industry spat in the eye of small businesses yesterday when he said:
`I won't support the weak at the expense of the strong.'
Deutsch:
jemanden absichtlich wütend machen oder ärgern / auf die Nerven gehen
Der Minister für Handel und Industrie spuckte gestern den kleinen Unternehmen ins Auge, als er sagte:
"Ich werde die Schwachen nicht auf Kosten der Starken unterstützen".
Allerdings, das mit "Auge", wenn auch nicht unmittelbar von ihr selbst gesagt,
würde in meiner symbolischen Sammlung schon sehr gut zu Mond früh im Widder passen und, ja,
das mit Mond in 9 im Widder und Reisen hatte mich gefühlt auch am Meisten angesprochen,
aber das kann sehr gut alles völlig täuschen, ich weiss es nicht, und sage nichts mehr,
wenn schon würde ich für mich (wie gesagt) am Ehesten Saturn-Rückkehren anschauen mal
wenn ich dafür die Zeit/Lust hätte...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hier doch einfach mal die Saturn-Rückkehr-Horoskope...
Erstmal die einzige Rückkehr beim ersten Zyklus, 1977,
die hätte bis ca. 2006 bei der ersten von dreo Rückkehren des zweiten Zyklus gewirkt in der üblichsten Lesart.
Laut Wikipedia arbeitete sie ab 1975 als Anwältin in Little Rock, Arkansas, 1979 heirate sie Bill Clinton,
der ja dann auch Gouverneur von Arkansas wurde, daher habe ich als Wohnort von Hillary Clinton mal Little Rock, Arkansas angenommen,
der Staat ist ja auch nicht sehr grossflächig.
18:45 [chart is wrong!]
22:45 [chart is wrong!]
Und hier die dritte Rückkehr vom zweiten Zyklus, 2007, die noch bis etwa 2036 wirksam wäre.
Laut Wikipedia war sie zu der Zeit Senatorin von New York, daher New York City als Wohnort angenommen.
18:45 [chart is wrong!]
22:45 [chart is wrong!]
Soweit keine Interpretation...
Meine Lesart wäre v.a. auf Saturn zu schauen, in welchem Haus, welche Aspekte,
und in welchen Bereichen sie sich in den jeweiligen Zeiträumen jeweils Schritt-für-Schritt etwas erarbeitet hätte,
wovon typ. auch konkret nachweisbare Spuren existieren würden,
bzw. (da Saturn) eben auch typ. etwas bzgl. Karriere / Öffentlichkeit was dabei sein müsste in irgendeiner Form.
Soweit zumindest "der Plan"...
PS: Die Rückkehren hatte ich auf Astroseek berechnet, geht sehr einfach dort (und erst nachher noch bei astro.com gezeichnet):
Saturn Return Calculator, Astrology Online Chart
Sehr empfehlenswert! (Auch für Rückkehren der anderen Planeten)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
A tribute to the Clintons, I guess...
Marilyn Monroe & Jane Russell -Two little girls from Little Rock
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Für mich wäre "schräg kommt" oder "fies kommt" schon noch recht ähnlich, also für aus dem Gedächtnis wohl zitiert nahe genug...
Ist halt auch ein wenig wie das Spiel wo sich alle ins Ohr flüstern.
Da gab es wohl mal was was jemand sagte, dann wurde es auf Deutsch übersetzt, und jemand gab das dann irgendwo wieder, usw.,
und am Ende ist es etwas, das sich deutlich vom Ursprung entfernt hat...
Auch ob Hillary heulend zur Mutter kam oder nicht. Im Stern Artikel stand das so nicht, aber auch nicht das Gegenteil...
Astrologisch? Mond in der Jungfrau im Moment, alles etwas pingelig vielleicht, zu Recht oder Unrecht?
Weiss auch nicht...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
xphi. said (Mon 3 Apr 2023 21:22:59 CEST):
PS: Die Rückkehren hatte ich auf Astroseek berechnet, geht sehr einfach dort (und erst nachher noch bei astro.com gezeichnet):
Hm, scheinen gar nicht zu stimmen auf den ersten Blick heute (Saturn-Position falsch), also mal ignorieren,
bzw. rechne ich vielleicht über Ostern mal verlässlich aus...
In meiner Erfahrung mit Astrologie wären Saturn-Rückkehren soweit das Verlässlichste, was ich je antraf,
da müssten sich einige Dinge in der Karriere von Hillary Clinton recht klar spiegeln.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Jan Martin said (Wed 5 Apr 2023 19:40:56 CEST):
Die Fixierung auf den Mond ist ein auffällig fast nur bei weiblichen Astrologisiererinnen - oops, doppelt gegendert - auftretendes Phänomen.
Mann kommt einfach nicht gegenan; Frau ist da mega-stark ... gegen jede Vernuft ... *stöööhn*
Nebenbei: Ich musste heute wieder an deine Bemerkung vor ein paar Tagen denken, wo du mit einem Versandhauskatalog nicht happy warst,
war ca.: keine Kleider für Kinder, nur 10% für Männer, der Rest für Frauen und "ungeordnet" oder so...
Heute bekam ich einen über Internet bestellten Pullover von Desigual per Post, und beiliegend war ein kleiner Katalog mit nur Frauen(-kleidern),
und ich war happy damit, für einen Katalog mit Männern hätte ich kaum was übrig gehabt...
So auch wegen "Ach ja diese subjektive Wahrnehmung
"
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Sitina said (Tue 4 Apr 2023 14:33:59 CEST):
so hier nochmal die Ansage der Mutter: Im diesem Haus ist kein Platz fuer Feiglinge.
Und draussen Kinder im Kreis um sie, dann das eine Mädchen das sie (wieder mal) stösst,
sie die zurückstösst, und die im Kreis, die sie annehmen/aufnehmen...
Ich hatte gestern ein bisschen genauer angefangen, ihre Saturn-Rückkehren genauer anzuschauen.
Sie hatte schon zwei in den Monaten nach ihrer Geburt, einmal rückläufig, einmal vorwärts,
und diese letzte wäre bis 1977 wirksam gewesen (übliche Lesart von Rückkehr-Horoskopen).
Und da hätte es ein paar Dinge, die ev. sehr gut zu einer Geburtszeit 22:45 passen würden
von der Geschichte in der Jugend gesehen, und auch zu den längsgestreiften Hosen
(und der Brille mit sechseckigen Gläsern) in den Fotos von 1969,
welche auch in die Zeit passen würden.
Why Hillary Clinton was dubbed the ‘Golden Girl’ in college
Why Hillary Clinton was dubbed the 'Golden Girl' in college
Für die Zeit 1977-2006 sah es soweit unsicherer aus welche Geburtszeit besser passen würde,
auf den ersten Blick eher 18:45 als 20:45, und ab 2007 bis und mit heute auf den ersten Blick wiederum umgekehrt leicht passender.
Ich schaue erst noch selbst genauer, auch insbesondere ob ich ähnlich wirklich prägende Vorkommnisse
für diese späteren Lebensabschnitte fände...
Der Kreis der Kinder erinnert mich übrigens sehr an antikes Theater in Griechenland mit nur so 1-3 Schauspielern und einem Chor darum.
Auch die gestreifte Hose ist ein etwas verwandtes Motiv, wie Zirkus, was wiederum einen Kreis (Zirkel - Zirkus) bedeutet,
mit eben auch oft nur ein paar Artisten im Zentrum, einer meist kreisrunden Manege, und darum herum das Publikum.
In meiner Welt hätte das sowohl "Mond" und "früh im Widder" bedeutet, aber ob "meine Welt" genug universell stimmt,
schwer zu sagen, daher mehr schauen.
Ich hätte ja vielleicht auch intuitiv Bowie (auch wegen den asymmetrischen Augen) einen AC früh im Widder gegeben,
aber auch das vielleicht in vielerlei Hinsicht vorschnell, wer weiss...
Braucht hat vielleicht einfach etwas länger und konkretere/nachvollziebarere Überlegungen/Argumentation mit Saturn in den Fischen...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Vielleicht doch ein Teaser zu den Saturn-Rückkehren von Hillary Clinton...
Unten die dritte von drei Rückkehren des nullten Zyklus (die erste war die Geburt),
für Chicago (laut Wikipedia wuchs sie in Park Ridge IL auf, also praktisch Chicago).
Bezüglich Saturn-Themen bestimmend bis zur erster vom einer Rückkehr des ersten Zyklus im August 1977...
18:45 => 10. Juli 1948 - 23:48 (CST, 05:48 UTC) Chicago
22:45 => 11. Juli 1948 - 02:08 (CST, 08:08 UTC) Chicago
Das zu 22:45 hätte von den Häusern natürlich Ähnlichkeit mit dem Geburtshoroskop für 18:45,
ebenfalls Zwillinge AC und Wassermann MC.
Was vielleicht unmittelbar auffällt ist Saturn genau am IC, was vielleicht zur "tough love" zu Hause passen könnte...
Saturn hat ein Sextil zur Venus im ersten Haus sowie ein recht genaues "fated" Trigon zum Jupiter am DC.
Das könnte alles gut zu der formenden Episode mit den Kindern im Kreis passen,
Zwillinge für Kinder und Spielen und Streiten, die Venus für die Konkurrentin, die sie stösst,
der Saturn zur Reaktion der Mutter zu Hause,
und dann für das andere Mädchen unerwartet der Jupiter von dem plötzlich ein Stoss zurückkam.
Könnte zumindest so passen.
Noch zum Geburtshoroskop 22:45 mit Mond früh im Widder.
In "meiner Welt" geht es so etwa im 1. Grad eines Zeichens nicht voll los, eher noch passiver,
aber selbst wenn nicht, wäre da immer noch der Mond im 9. Haus und in fast genauem Trigon zum Jupiter früh im Schützen,
also sehr viel von der 9/Schütze/Jupiter Thematik,
die sehr gut zu sich für Gleichberechtigung einsetzen passen würde (wohl recht allgemein, nicht nur in "meiner Welt").
Und beiden (Mond und Jupiter) wären im Trigon zum AC, was vielleicht erklären könnte
wieso sie in manchen Fotos extrem strahlt (also ganz viel Licht/Feuer)...
Übrigens als "als scheu und als ein eher zurückhaltendes Kind" würde ich mich auch bezeichnen
in der Kindheit/Jugend und in gewisser Weise immer noch – mein AC ist auf etwa 2° Löwe,
der MC ca. 12° Widder, der Mond auf ca. 17° Widder im 10. Haus.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Thu 6 Apr 2023 11:20:54 CEST):
Zum Vergleich die Synastrie zw. Tochter und
Mutter,
wenn Hillary um 22:45 Uhr geboren worden wäre:
[...]
Sorry, Leute, aber dann stünde der Neptun der Mutter am AC der Tochter.
Passt das denn wirklich zu dem, was Hillary über ihre Mutter sagte?
Ja, das würde aus meiner Sicht gut passen, insbesondere zu
"No one had a bigger influence on my life or did more to shape the person I became.".
Die Mutter wäre damit immer präsent gewesen und "influence" (Einfluss) passt noch gut zu Wasser,
vielleicht auch so rum noch das Leuchten im Gesicht von Hillary, Neptun-Photographie.
Auch gut passen würde aus meiner Sicht, dass Bill Clinton den Saturn auf etwa 2° Löwe hat.
Das hätte Hillary an ihrem AC etwas gegeben das schützt und stabilisiert
(vielleicht jetzt ein bisschen vereinfacht beschrieben), ein bisschen einfacher dann öffentlich zu repräsentieren,
und auch Mond-Jupiter wären damit in einem sehr genauen grossen Trigon.
Für mich passt das gefühlt alles recht gut.
PS: Wobei natürlich die Aspekte von Mond und Jupiter zu früh im Löwen bei beiden Geburtszeiten vorhanden sind...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Sitina said (Thu 6 Apr 2023 18:31:58 CEST):
Loewe AC s koennen sehr scheu sein in der Kindheit, vor allem weil sie frueh Erfahrungen des Zurueckweisens machen,
denn sie stellen sich ja gern in den Mittelpunkt und das wird ersteinmal nicht geduldet unter Kindern,das
muss man sich erarbeiten den Leader , der Koenig/die Koenigin ist nichts ohne ihre Schar von Freunden/Freundinen
die sie anfuehren und von denen sie sich bewundern lassen koennen, Hillary hat schon frueh in der Schule diese Rolle eingenommen
und da sie respektiert und verehrt wurde konnte sie sich von ihrer besten Seite zeigen, loyal ,grosszuegig warmherzig und offen.
Letzendlich wurde sie ja sogar in der Zeit der Lewinsky Affaire bewundert, wie sie zu ihrem Mann stand, das gibt dem Loewen immer Auftrieb.
Ja, Kreis und Löwe, daran hatte ich nicht gedacht gehabt...
- Der Löwe auch in der Manege (wobei da typ. der Dompteur im Zentrum ist,
und oft mehr als ein Löwe im Kreis drumherum (was ev. auch ein bisschen was von Jungfrau hätte?))
- Löwe-loyal-royal
- Sonnensymbol ☉ mit einem Punkt in der Mitte
Und siehe auch eben Saturn bei Bill Clinton, Saturn hat auch ein "Königsthema"
Etwas ist mir noch aufgefallen:
- franz. "loi" = Recht, "roi" = König
- engl. "law" = Recht (<=> Löwe)
Also scheint auch einen gewissen Bezug von Löwe zu Recht/Jura zu haben, wobei ich das nicht habe,
also ev. braucht es da noch mehr dazu bei ihr, ev. auch ein bisschen 9/Schütze/Jupiter?
Noch zwei Details:
- Bei Geburtszeit 22:45 wären Mond und Jupiter sehr genau im Trigon, nur etwa eine Bogenminute davon entfernt,
wobei sowieso bei :45 Geburtszeit nicht so klar ist wie genau die ist (wie glaube ich schon mal erwähnt).
Immerhin reduziert sich diese Unsicherheit bei den meisten ihrer Saturn-Rückkehren um etwa einen Faktor 2-3,
da der Saturn bei Geburt eher etwas langsam war
- Das andere Detail habe ich jetzt vergessen...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
This might(!) be a Mercury rx topic for in the coming weeks, came out in the media (NY Times) 7 April...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/07/us/politics/classified-documents-leak.html (requires registration)
Pentagon investigates reported leak of top-secret Ukraine documents
Might also be some sort of reply to the recent disclosure of the "Vulkan files" about Russian cyberwarfare...
Russian Cyberwarfare Documents Leaked - Schneier on Security
‘Vulkan files’ leak reveals Putin’s global and domestic cyberwarfare tactics
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
carabas said (Fri 7 Apr 2023 18:56:17 CEST):
Notare il transito di Saturno opposto a Marte - Sangue
E Saturno - ossi - leucemia?
Anche Saturno trigone Venus - vene?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Good question
I always thought that one reason for (hardboiled) eggs at Easter was that it was a kind of food
that could be preserved quite some time and that at the end of winter / start of spring there was often not so much left otherwise...
I once saw a documentation of Passover at an orthodox Jewish family in Israel.
They would hide bread crumbs in the appartment for the kids to find.
Purely synthetically from several past explorations I would guess rather strongly that there would be some roots in ancient Egypt
(including back to the "Age of Taurus").
The eggs as the testicles of the (Apis) bull running with the pharaoh and a baboon at the beginning of spring.
The bunny for Easter might(!!) maybe in it symbolic roots also have ancient Egyptian roots,
which might maybe also explain the following:
In some medieval books that were written relatively shortly after first crusades,
there are sometimes "killer rabbits" depicted, which hunt and/or kill human hunters.
It appears at least by striking similarity
that at least some of those images had their origin in Europeans misinterpreting
depictions of the Egyptian god Ra in shape of a cat with donkey ears killing the Apep/Apophis snake,
as he does every night with the help of his otherwise enemy Seth
in order to protect the sun on its bark on the underground river
that brings the sun back from west where it settled to east
for it to victoriously rise again the next morning...
Here is a medieval depiction:
From this site (with quite a few more images):
https://blogs.bl.uk/digitisedmanuscripts/2021/06/killer-rabbits.html
And here Ra in shape of a cat with donkey ears killing the Apep snake:
From Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apep
Happy Easter everybody :)
Monty Python-Killer Rabbit
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
@Oliver ... or its airspeed if specific about the kind of swallow...
(@all Youtube links: weight
| airspeed)
PS: Actually the German title of the movie was "Die Ritter der Kokosnuss" ("The Knights of the Coconut")
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Rolf said (Tue 11 Apr 2023 09:02:23 CEST):
Scheint ja wie wenn Frank Felber da eine Grafik von mir hier (die mit der roten gepunkteten Linie) "übernommen" hätte...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Rolf said (Tue 11 Apr 2023 09:24:47 CEST):
Das weiss ich nicht, da musst du Frank selbst fragen aber ich tippe auch auf Uhrzeit 22.45
War eher ein allgemeiner Kommentar als spezifisch an dich, und auch keine Frage...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Tue 11 Apr 2023 09:57:29 CEST):
Das ist schon Deine Grafik.
Frank Felber hat links unten an der verwendeten Grafik eine Quellenangabe zum Forum hierher gemacht.
Siehe:
View attachment 856
Ja, das nächste Mal wenn ich einen Buchautor zitiere, poste ich dann auch einfach einen Link auf die Webseite des publizierenden Verlages...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Die Argumentation von Frank Felber bzgl. dem Scan der Geburtsurkunde finde ich als Physiker nicht sehr gut gemacht.
U.A. ist er sich wohl nicht bewusst, dass ein "Verrinnen" der 1er unten nicht umbedingt auf dem Original so sein müsste,
sondern auch ein Artefakt vom ursprünglichen low-res b/w ~200dpi Scan sein könnte.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ain't Got No, I Got Life - Nina Simone
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
xphi. said (Sat 8 Apr 2023 07:58:51 CEST):
Could it be, since the leaked (or "leaked"?) documents hint at an imminent Ukrainian offensive not being necessarily very successful
that it would end up close to what Henri Kissinger suggested 23 Jan this year at Davos,
i.e. essentially freezing in the front lines as they are now, and Ukraine joining NATO?
See the Sabian Symbols for the stations of Mercury above:
TAURUS 6 - A BRIDGE BEING BUILT ACROSS A HIGH NARROW GORGE
TAURUS 16 - AN OLD PERSON IS ATTEMPTING, WITH A DEGREE OF SUCCESS UNSUSPECTED BY THEM, TO REVEAL THE MYSTERIES TO A MOTLEY GROUP
Will be interesting to see how the world will look like 11 June when Mercury will go out of post-shadow...
The date 23 Jan, i.e. the sun close to the AC and especially moon of communist China* (c.f. also Taiwan thread),
might even make one think that also somewhere else something might change unexpectedly? But curling up again...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China#Declaration
At exactly 3:00pm Beijing Time on October 1, 1949, Mao announced to the nation from the top of the Tiananmen Gate: [...]
(BTW, maybe also look at Sedna.....)
PS (Wed 00:02): I did not notice the full category "Mundane / political astrology > Current transits (personal)",
which seems a bit paradox, but maybe since I have 4 planets in the 12th, personal and mundane are often not so different anyways...?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Kleines Detail nebenbei: Der Artikel von Frank Felber hat sich leicht geändert
bzgl. der Quellenangabe zum Bild mit der roten gepunkteten Linie...
Dort hat es jetzt lesbar die Webaddresse von Seite 5 in diesem Faden, die Seite wo ich das Bild gepostet hatte*.
(Ist kein Link auf den man klicken kann, und, da die Webseite generell so eingestellt,
dass man unmittelbar nichts selektieren und kopieren kann, wäre es auch ein bisschen schwieriger von da hierhin zu kommen.)
Ich hatte das sowieso nicht so bierernst gemeint gehabt, das waren ein paar wenige Minuten Photoshop gewesen für mich,
aber schon auch OK so...
* https://www.astrologyinternational.org/forum/index.php?threads/hillary-clintons-geburtsurkunde-ver%C3%B6ffentlicht-huch.220/page-5
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hier mal die Saturnrückkehr von 1977, für den Zyklus gab es nur eine.
Ort Little Rock Arkansas, da rum wohnten sie in der Zeit,
nicht zuletzt da Bill Clinton da ab Januar 1977 Generalstabsanwalt war (Attorney General of Arkansas),
und zwei Jahre später da Gouverneur wurde, die Heirat war schon 1975 gewesen.
Hillary Clinton - Wikipedia
In November 1976, Bill Clinton was elected Arkansas attorney general,
and the couple moved to the state capital of Little Rock.
Deutsch: Im November 1976 wurde Bill Clinton zum Generalstaatsanwalt von Arkansas gewählt,
und das Paar zog in die Hauptstadt des Bundesstaates, Little Rock.
Die Rückkehr Horoskope für die zwei Geburtszeiten
(die wären in verbreiteter Lesart bis zur nächsten Rückkehr 2006 gültig gewesen,
also in einer Zeit wo sie zuerst als Gattin aufstieg bis zur Präsidentengattin
und 2001 Senatorin vom Staat New York wurde (plus 2007 wiedergewählt).
18:45 => 20. August 1977 - 10:34 (CST, DST, 15:34 UTC)
22:45 => 20.August 1977 - 12:40 (CDT, DST, 17:40 UTC)
Bei dem für 22:45 könnte passen, dass Saturn im Löwen am MC war,
auch noch leicht konjunkt zur Sonne im 10. Haus.
Das könnte passen zu einem stetigen Aufstieg plus auch beliebt genug um gewählt zu werden
(wenn auch an nördlich der Ostküste, wo wohl etwas einfacher wie im ganzen Land für eine Demokratin).
Es könnte auch dazu passen, dass sie bei der Lewinsky-Affäre "wie ein Fels loyal" zu ihrem Mann blieb,
also der äussere Status sehr stabil und löwenhaft loyal.
Wobei natürlich auch erwähnt werden müsste, dass wohl Lewinsky auch mit Löwe zu tun tat
(dachte gerade auch noch an den Rabbi Löw und den Golem, aber nebenbei...).
Was ich mir allerdings nicht so sicher bin, ist ob der Mond im 12. Haus am AC im Skorpion
(und noch weiter im 12. Haus der Uranus) zu ihr in der Zeit gut passen würde
(wäre das nicht mind. manchmal etwas "dunkler" oder so?)...
Hier ein Youtube Video von 1995, Comedy für das "Gridiron Dinner"...
Hillary and Bill Clinton Spoof Forrest Gump
Comedy in der Art könnte schon auch passen dazu, auch da ihre Haare immer mal wieder wechseln.
Scheint generell ein Thema zu ihr zu sein, mind. grob um die Zeit run, was schon zu Mond am AC passen könnte,
und natürlich auch besser zu einem Mond im Widder wie in den Fischen
(da Widder-Kopf, Fische-Füsse, und eine Imelda Marcos ist sie eher nicht...)
Bei dem für 18:45 weiss ich nicht so recht was sagen.
War ja wohl schon vieles harmonisch in der Zeit, was zu der Venus am MC passen könnte,
aber eine Venus vom Aussehen war sie auch nicht, aber...
Und wie genau sich ein n.Mondknoten Mitte Waage genau manifestieren würde, könnte ich kaum sagen...
(Nachtrag 21:32: Im Prinzip sollte man ja bei den Saturn-Rückkehrhoroskopen primär mal auf den Saturn schauen,
und der könnte Spitze 11 auch nicht schlecht passen.
Ich dachte da gerade noch das Buch "It takes a Village" (to raise a child) von 1996.
Viel Aspekte hat Saturn nicht, neben der Konjunktion zur Sonne noch Sextil zum Mars in den Zwillingen,
bei 18:45 im 9. Haus, bei 22:45 im 8. Haus...
Bei 18:45 noch ein Sextil zum AC, also auch Trigon zum DC,
aber weiss ich jetzt heute Abend alles nicht gut zu deuten...)
Wieder mein Manko der Unkenntnis der Häuser bei fast allen Leuten, die ich persönlich schon getroffen habe,
und wohl etwas ähnlich mind. auch bei einigen hier im Forum. Schön wäre,
wenn man 100 Astrologinnen/Astrologen mit vielen Jahrzehnten fragen könnte,
wie sie das sehen nach Sichten von vielen Fotos, Videos und lesen etc.,
ob es da viele verschiedene Meinungen gäbe oder alle dasselbe sagen würden...
Ich hätte zumindest gesagt, dass ich von diesen beiden Rückkehrhoroskopen
keine Geburtszeit als kaum möglich einstufen würde....
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Vineta said (Wed 12 Apr 2023 10:59:18 CEST):
Übrigens, meine Schwester mit Widdermond, AC Zwilling, Sonne Skorpion und Mars im Löwen trägt ihr Haar auch wie ein Löwe.
Super, das würde ja auf "beide Hillaries" passen,
Widdermond zu 22:45, AC Zwilling zu 18:45, und der Rest für beide Geburtszeiten
(ausser natürlich, dass die Häuser von Sonne+Mars bei der Schwester eher wie bei 18:45 wären)...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
etherea said (Wed 12 Apr 2023 17:25:32 CEST):
So the UK emergency alert test, 23 April, will occur just right after both the eclipse and Merc stations Rx -
might be a case of a not-quite-going-to-plan sort of event?
6 February 2008 there were the usual (bi-annual?) tests of the alarm sirens in Switzerland,
as always on a Wednesday early in the afternoon (13:30 - ca. 15:00).
That day there was also some kind of accident at the wastewater treatment plant in the (small) city of Adliswil, where I live.
Somehow someone managed to connect a wastewater tube to a drinking water tube,
even though normally that is not possible (different connectors)
and so in the evening there were sirens again to warn of polluted water, but I did not think much of the sirens,
and it seems from feedback from neighbours that they also did not...
On 7 February there was a solar eclipse (an annular one, not visible at all in Switzerland)
and Mercury was retrograde since 28 January
The test of the alarm sirens were successful, though...
Some sources (partially only available in German)
https://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/2000/ae_2008.pdf
Trinkwasserverschmutzung in Adliswil mit Folgen | NZZ
Sirenentest am Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008
Solar and Lunar Eclipses Worldwide – Next 10 years
Anyways, should you ever want to attack Switzerland, you might want to do it on a Wednesday in the early afternoon,
and in the UK maybe be careful when you hear sirens 23 April even if sirens would he expected anyways?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Wed 12 Apr 2023 12:36:33 CEST):
Transit-Uranus stand im Horoskop von 22:45 Uhr auf Hausspitze 5. 🙃
Auch noch interessant fand ich, dass die Häuser bei Chelsea Clinton
ähnlich wie beim 1977er Saturnar von Hillary Clinton 22:45 wären,
insbesondere der Saturn am MC wäre dann nahe vom MC von Chelsea,
was für eine einzige Tochter (bzw. auch einziges Kind) vielleicht noch bedeutsamer wäre?
Chelsea: AC 16°21' ♏︎, MC 23°36' ♌︎, n.Mondknoten 28°49' ♌︎
Hillary 22:45 Saturnar 1977 (Zyklus 1, 1 von 1): AC 12° ♏︎, MC 19° ♌︎, ♄ 21°21' ♌︎, ☉ 27°34' ♌︎ (Mittelpunkt ♄-☉ 24°28' ♌︎)
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Clinton,_Chelsea (RR AA)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hier noch Chelsea Clinton inkl. auch den "Mondasteroiden" (78 Diana, 100 Hekate, 105 Artemis).
Mir fällt da auf, dass Artemis und besonders Hekate sehr nahe an einem exakten Trigon zum Mond von Hillary 22:45 wäre,
aber vielleicht mein Blick einseitig...
(PS: z.B. der Uranus im Transit näher im Trigon zum Geburtsmond von Hillary für 18:45 wie für 22:45...)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Wed 12 Apr 2023 19:13:49 CEST):
Ich denke, die Summe aller Ereignisse zeigt eher, welches Horoskop in Frage kommt.
Ein einzelnes Ereignis muss da nicht ausschlaggebend sein, zumal auffällt,
dass die Venus von
Hillary so oder so am Skorpion-AC ihrer Tochter steht.
Und auch so oder so steht Hillarys Löwe-Saturn an
Chelseas Löwe-MC.
Ich finde, das sind genug verbindende Konstellationen zw. Mutter und Tochter.
Nachvollziehbar, ausser dem letzten Satz, der zumindest wie ein Urteil erscheint...
MC-MC ist eben doch noch ein weiteres Element;
bzgl. Saturn wäre eben ein Saturn im Saturnar am MC der Ausdruck auch eines Ziels,
und gerade in der Sicht des MC in der psychologischen Astrologie als meist "Wunsch der Mutter",
würde das eben schon etwas Zusätzliches sein,
dass sich nicht einfach so mit einem Satz ganz wegwischen liesse...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hier noch die Saturnare zum zweiten Rückkehrzyklus,
aber da nur die letzen (dritten) von drei Rückkehren (direkt-rückläufig-direkt),
die ab Juni 2007 für die kommenden ca. 29 Jahre wirken würden.
1 / 3: 30. September 2006
2 / 3: 13./14. Februar 2007
3 / 3: 20./21. Juni 2007
Als Senatorin von New York wiedergewählt wurde sie am 7. November 2007,
also schon bei dem einer der Zwischen-Saturnare, das habe nicht genauer angeschaut.
Aber grundsätzlich fällt auf, dass sie ab der Zeit dann nie mehr demokratisch gewählt wurde,
sie verlor 2008 gegen Obama in den Vorwahlen der Demokraten und 2016 gegen Trump in der "Endaussscheidung",
wobei natürlich das auch an den Umständen liegen könnte.
Als Ort habe ich New York genommen:
Hillary Clinton - Wikipedia
When New York's long-serving U.S. senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan announced his retirement in November 1998,
several prominent Democratic figures, including Representative Charles Rangel of New York,
urged Clinton to run for his open seat in the Senate election of 2000.[191]
Once she decided to run, the Clintons purchased a home in Chappaqua, New York, north of New York City, in September 1999.
Als der langjährige New Yorker US-Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan im November 1998 seinen Rücktritt ankündigte,
drängten mehrere prominente Demokraten, darunter der New Yorker Abgeordnete Charles Rangel, Clinton,
bei den Senatswahlen im Jahr 2000 für seinen freien Sitz zu kandidieren.
Nach ihrer Entscheidung zu kandidieren, kauften die Clintons im September 1999 ein Haus in Chappaqua, New York,
nördlich von New York City.
Übersetzt mit www.DeepL.com/Translator (kostenlose Version)
Immer schwierig zu sagen gerade in den USA wer wann wo wohnte,
auch da es dort ja keine Meldepflicht bei der Wohngemeinde gibt
(zumindest war das früher so, mind, an den meisten Orten in den USA).
Als könnte auch sein, dass sie gerade als Senatorin auch z.B. in Washington DC gewohnt hätte...
18:45 => 20. Juni 2007 23:30
22:45 => 21. Juni 2007 02:20
Aufgrund dem "nicht mehr gewählt werden", hätte ich vielleicht mal vermutet,
das neue Saturnar wäre für öffentlichen Erfolg weniger geeignet wie das von 1977...
Aber vielleicht bei beiden schwierig eine Venus am MC (1977 für Hillary 18:45)
oder Saturn/Sonne am MC (1977 für Hillary 22:45) zu schlagen...
Für Hillary 18:45 wäre der Saturn am DC, wodurch sie vielleicht hart und wenig mitfühlend wirken könnte,
und der Neptun genau gegenüber am AC, könnte sich auch eher negativ auswirken.
Allerdings wäre sie dann wohl erfolgreich im 7. Haus, also mit Connections builden,
was ihr ja vielleicht gut hätte helfen können um in der Regierung Obama wichtige Posten zu bekommen
(inkl. dem wichtigsten, Aussenminister (Secretary of State)).
Aspekte von Saturn wären noch zu Pluto Trigon leicht, Ende von 10,
und Mars in 2 auch leicht Trigon (also Mars-Pluto sehr nahe im Trigon).
Das grosse Trigon gab es natürlich bei beiden Rückkehr-Horoskopen,
also schon das an sich könnte ja ev. gerade weil das irgendwie "machtvoll" ist,
auch misstrauisch machen, mit all den trad. + modernem "Bösewichten" so harmonisch "verbandelt"?
Für Hillary 22:45 wäre der Saturn im 5. Haus, zusammen mit Venus (ah ja, die Konjunktion hatte es auch oben natürlich).
Der AC im Stier könnte schon etwas zu ihrem Aussehen seither passen,
eher etwas "breiter" (wobei das auch rein "altersbedingt" sein könnte),
und doch auch oft eher entspannter/gesetzter wirkend?
Oder war das ev. als sie noch in der Politik war noch weniger so? Könnte ich schlecht sagen...
Allerdings würde vielleicht schon gut passen,
dass sie mit Saturn in 5 die Fokus doch am Ende in eher "Hobbies" verlegt hätte,
in selbst dort was machen, weniger Status gegen aussen,
und sie vielleicht auch deshalb vielleicht gar nicht so unhappy war als sie gegen Trump verlor...?
Tja, alles in allem soweit für mich noch zu wenig schlüssig, dass ich mir astrologisch wirklich schlüssig wäre
(also nahezu "100%") was aus rein astrologischer Sicht die Geburtszeit wäre von den zwei,
auch da die Orte für die Saturn-Rückkehren vielleicht doch noch ein wenig zu unsicher sind,
bzw. mind. etwas unklar wie sehr effektiv unsicher...
Meine persönliche Tendenz astrologisch wäre schon zu 22:45,
gerade noch mit dem 1977er MC im Löwen wie bei der Tochter als weiterem möglichem Indiz,
und auch was Frank Felber sagte in seinem Artikel mit
"Als der Skandal durch Bill Clintons Affäre mit Monica Lewinsky Ende 1997 publik wird,
erreichten Transit Neptun (Lüge, Betrug) und Uranus (Skandal) ihren Deszendenten (Partner)."
wäre für mich ein weiteres Indiz für 22:45
(Vorbehalt: Daten/Positionen Neptun/Uranus nicht nachgeschaut, aber scheint ca. OK aus dem Gedächtnis).
In Zahlen wären vielleicht die Wahrscheinlichkeiten etwa so für mich persönlich in meiner Denke/Fühle...:
Von der Astrologie her:
- 18:45: 45%
- 22:45: 55%
Von der Gebursurkunde (siehe ADB) her:
- 18:45: 51%
- 22:45: 49%
Meine Empfehlung wäre, wie im englischsprachigen Teil hier schon geschrieben,
noch weitere Geburtsurkunden vom gleichen Spital im gleichen Zeitraum anzuschauen
(wären nominell bestellbar, wohl "nur für Ahnenforschung", für Menschen, die 75+ sind).
Und in der ADB würde ich soweit das Horoskop für 22:45 wieder einstellen als alternative Geburtszeit.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Thu 13 Apr 2023 20:07:45 CEST):
Ehrlich gesagt, ich hab inzwischen schon sehr viele Eltern-Kind-Synastrien durchforstet
und selbst wenn ein Kind den Eltern wichtig war, gab es nicht automatisch Berührungspunkte mit dem MC.
Ich sprach ja vom MC im Saturnar mit Saturn dort. Ich vermute mal,
damit hast du (wie auch ich) wohl kaum direkte praktische Erfahrung?
PS: Saturn am MC beim Saturnar wäre ja auch relativ selten (also so ca. max. eine Person von 20).
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Thu 13 Apr 2023 20:07:45 CEST):
Apropos Mond-Saturn-Kontakt ...
Auch da würde der Fische-Mond von Hillary besser passen,
denn dann stünde der noch in Opposition zu Chelseas Jungfrau-Saturn Ende Jungfrau!
Ja, die Opposition wäre dann genauer und in gegenüberliegenden Zeichen, etwas weniger als 4° bzw. etwas weniger als 7°.
Wobei gerade bei einer Opposition vom Saturn der Tochter zum Geburts-Mond der Mutter wäre nicht so klar
ob das von der Mutter so gewünscht wäre, ich hätte vermutet eher vermeiden*?
Aber so wirklich in die Möglichkeiten reingedacht habe ich jetzt nicht...
Sieht nicht so aus, wie wenn ich hier unmittelbar mehr detailliert forschen würde,
bzw. ich würde lieber das Verfahren mit Saturnaren noch vereinfachen von den Kriterien her
und breiter abstellen mit einer rechten Anzahl von AA Geburtszeiten, aber ev. auch das nicht,
Astrologie ist zumindest für mich eine brotlose Kunst, so sehr,
dass ich halt vielleicht doch mal einfach was anderes versuchen sollte (oder auch gar nichts)...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Thu 13 Apr 2023 20:28:05 CEST):
Ich bin gleich bei den ersten zwei Paragraphen hängengeblieben:
Der Moment, als Hillary Clinton kurz die Fassung verlor, sollte ihr die Auferstehung von den Totgesagten sichern.
Wie es ihr gehe, fragte eine Wählerin Anfang Januar in Portsmouth in New Hampshire die Bewerberin um die demokratische Präsidentschaftskandidatur.
Die Favoritin hatte da die erste Vorwahl in Iowa deutlich gegen Barack Obama verloren
und war sogar hinter John Edwards auf dem dritten Platz gelandet.
Auch für New Hampshire sagten die Umfragen eine Niederlage voraus.
„Manche Leute meinen, ein Wahlkampf sei nur ein Spiel“, antwortete die 60-Jährige mit brechender Stimme:
„Es ist nicht leicht, es ist nicht leicht, ich könnte es nicht schaffen, wenn ich nicht leidenschaftlich überzeugt wäre,
das Richtige zu tun.“ Müde sei sie und geschafft von der anstrengenden Kampagne,
gestand die frühere First Lady und war den Tränen nahe.
Dieser kurze Moment der öffentlichen Schwäche bescherte der starken Frau den Vorwahlsieg in New Hampshire
und den Verbleib im Kandidatenrennen.
Er zeigte die kühle Strategin verwundbar, eine Eigenschaft, die Wähler offenbar schätzen.
Und habe das Video hier gefunden (vom 7.1.2008) das wohl das sein müsste:
Clinton Wells Up: 'This Is Very Personal'
Vor allem in der Mitte scheint es "echter" zu werden...
Textauszug aus dem Video (der Teil wo sie auf meine Marke [1] unten hin Gefühle zu zeigen scheint,
und dann eine Weile hat, bis kurz nach dem Auszug wohl wieder eher "Maske", da erwähnt sie auch, dass sie müde ist):
[...] You know, I have so many opportunities for [from?] this country. They still want us to fall backwards.
You know. So... [1] You know, this is very personal for me. It's not just political, it's not just public.
I see what's happening, and we have to reverse it.
And some people think, elections are a game, they think it's like who's up or who's down.
It's about our country, and it's about our kids' futures. And it's really about all of us together.
You know some of us put ourselves out there and do this. Against some pretty... difficult odds.
And we do it each one of us because we care about our country.
But some of us are right and some of us are wrong. Some of us are ready and some of us are not.
Some of us know what we will do on day one, and some of us haven't really thought that through enough. [...]
[...] Wissen Sie, ich habe so viele Möglichkeiten für dieses [von diesem?] Land.
Sie wollen immer noch, dass wir rückwärts fallen. Sie wissen schon.
Also... [1] Wissen Sie, das ist eine sehr persönliche Sache für mich. Es ist nicht nur politisch, es ist nicht nur öffentlich.
Ich sehe, was hier passiert, und wir müssen es umkehren.
Und manche Leute denken, Wahlen seien ein Spiel, sie denken, es gehe darum, wer oben oder unten ist.
Es geht um unser Land und um die Zukunft unserer Kinder. Und es geht wirklich um uns alle zusammen.
Einige von uns gehen da raus und tun das. Gegen ziemlich... schwierige Bedingungen.
Und jeder von uns tut es, weil uns unser Land am Herzen liegt.
Aber einige von uns haben Recht und einige von uns haben Unrecht. Manche von uns sind bereit und manche nicht.
Manche von uns wissen, was wir am ersten Tag tun werden, und manche von uns haben das noch nicht wirklich durchdacht. [...]
Übersetzt mit www.DeepL.com/Translator (kostenlose Version)
Hmm... Dass sie sich so sicher zu sein scheint (?), gut zu wissen (besser als andere) was richtig ist
und was falsch ist für das Land, könnte schon auf was mit Zwillingen hindeuten,
wie für 18:45 der AC in den Zwillingen mit dem Uranus der USA (Sibly und alles um 4.7.1776 rum) dort,
plus MC im Wassermann da immer so ca. von Fortschritt/Zukunft die Rede zu sein scheint?
Das mit "gegen ziemliche Bedingungen" weil "unser Land am Herzen liegt", würde wohl gut zum Saturn passen
(Löwe-Herz, schwierige Bedingungen-Saturn), aber besser in welchem Haus?
18:45 mit 4. Haus beim IC könnte schon passen wegen "unser Land"?
Oder 22:45 1. Haus mit direkt dem Saturn in der unmittelbaren Gegenwart immer?
Scheint beides nicht undenkbar.
Und war das schon offen/"nackt" genug um Sonne oder Mond zu "sehen"
(scheint mir immer noch kontrolliert, schon teilweise offen, aber unter Kontrolle)?
Da wäre die Sonne für 22:45 im 4. Haus, hingegen für 18:45 im 6. Haus,
was auch zu viel arbeiten passen könnte, usw.
Irgendwie doch wieder alles im Kreis, wenigstens bei mir...
Tja, das sich so rasch wandelnde Gesicht im Roman "Die andere Seite" von Kubin
(wegen Titel des Artikels "Die vielen Gesichter der Hillary Clinton")
hatte ich bisher immer bei ganz früh im Widder eingeordnet
(und eben auch früh im Widder mit Mond sowieso), auch wegen Kopf-Widder, also...
Egal, wollte eigentlich gar nicht hier in all das versinken...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Wie wäre es denn mit einem Salomonischen Urteil, die Mitte von 18:45 und 22:45, also 20:45
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Cat Power - Babydoll
Lyrics
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hm, the retrograde station (5°51 ♉︎) would almost reach (~1' missing) where ♅ of my father was.
The direct station (15°37' ♉︎), in turn, misses to reach were ♅ of my mother was by about 1.5°.
And their birthdays were by date in the retrograde phase this time.
I guess not a fully "canonical" application of astrology, but could mean something...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Noch ein genereller Kommentar zur USA und den zwei Parteien dort.
Vor etwa zwanzig Jahren im Usenet (aat und/oder aam) kam die Idee auf,
dass die Republikaner eher Jupiter wären (z.B. ganz viel Geld ausgeben, Defizit erhöhen, aber so auch den Kalten Krieg beenden),
die Demokraten eher Saturn.
Das würde sich auch in den Maskottchen spiegeln, der Esel schon traditionell dem Saturn zugeordnet,
und Elefant passt wohl auch gut zu Jupiter.
Ich bin jetzt nicht mehr ganz sicher, was genau da schon gesagt wurde und von wem jeweils.
Was ich noch weiss, ist dass ich von meiner Seite noch das Horoskop der Entdeckung von Amerika durch Kolumbus beifügte,
in dem es eine Opposition von Saturn im Wassermann (6. Haus) zu Jupiter im Löwen hat (12. Haus),
was in vielerlei Hinsicht recht gut passen könnte.
Die Demokraten ernster und technologischer sowie auch arbeitssamer
und auch mehr "Diversity" (Regenbogen, Prisma das den Sonnenstrahl in verschiedene Farben teilt),
die Republikaner mehr auf der sonnigen Seite, weniger ernst und weniger arbeitssam,
dafür wohl auch empfänglicher für "Verschwörungstheorien" (12. Haus?)...
Und im Horoskop der USA auch ein bisschen der Zwiespalt gespiegelt,
n.Mondknoten im Löwen, Mond im Wassermann,
und vielleicht noch den Uranus in den Zwillingen als alternative Repräsentation des Zwiespaltes...
Hillary Clinton wäre als Demokratin dann vielleicht eher passender mit der Zeit 18:45
(Zwillinge AC, Wassermann MC) als 22:45 (Löwe AC)...
Auch vielleicht in Anbetracht dessen, dass ihre Eltern Republikaner waren,
wenn ich mich recht erinnere?
Oder eben auch genau deshalb nicht, die Spaltung doch irgendwie durch alle?
Hmm...? Tja. Hmm... Tja... usw.
Historic: Sighting of America, horoscope for birth date 12 October 149
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
What's the take on "fair use":
https://copyrightalliance.org/faqs/what-is-fair-use/ ?
Especially, "If you are making a direct quote in your post, rather than posting a link,
then you need to check if that is okay (usually, your book or text source will specify)"
would in my opinion often not apply if you only quote short extracts that are relevant in direct context of astrologial discussions here;
that would, as far as I can see, be something that the author/publisher would not have the power/right to suppress
by whatever they would state about what is allowed to do with their material.
PS: I am not aware how such things are handled in Swiss law (and/or how it is usually applied)...
Maybe something equivalent to "fair use" would or would not exist there...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I think I found a good source for that issue:
That't the Swiss Federal Institute for Intellectual Property (IPI) in Switzerland, a government organisation
(by the way, if I am not mistaken, I guess also essentially where Einstein worked at the patent office).
Quoting from works - Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual Property
Quoting from works
Quoting is also permitted.
Anyone is allowed to directly reproduce parts of published works to explain, illustrate or refer to something specific.
This can be from books, lectures, pieces of music or films.
For a long time, there had been controversy surrounding whether quoting works of art and photographs is also covered by the law.
The dispatch on the revision clarified that, if the conditions provided by the law are fulfilled,
it is possible to quote these categories of works.
The law permits quotation under the following conditions:
the quotation must serve as an explanation, illustration or a reference and should be no longer than necessary.
In addition, the quotation must be designated as such and the source must be given.
Where the source refers to the author, they must also be named.
Example: In an article on Friedrich Dürrenmatt, you may quote from the writer’s works, biographies or studies
if you are using the quotations to illustrate your points.
However, you are not covered by the right to quote if you simply decorate your article with photographs of Dürrenmatt
without specifically making reference to these photos.
In German (Eidgenössisches Institut für Geistiges Eigentum (IGE)):
Zitieren aus Werken - Eidgenössisches Institut für Geistiges Eigentum
Zitieren aus Werken
Auch zitieren ist erlaubt: Zur Erläuterung, Veranschaulichung oder um auf etwas Bestimmtes hinzuweisen,
darf jedermann Stellen aus veröffentlichten Werken wörtlich wiedergeben.
Und zwar nicht nur aus Büchern, sondern auch aus Vorträgen, Musikstücken oder Filmen.
Ob das Zitieren von Werken der bildenden Kunst und von Fotografien von der gesetzlichen Regelung auch erfasst ist,
war lange umstritten.
Die Botschaft zur Revision stellt klar, dass auch diese Werkkategorien
unter Einhaltung der gesetzlich vorgegebenen Bedingungen zitiert werden können.
Das Gesetz erlaubt das Zitieren unter folgenden Bedingungen:
Das Zitat muss der Erläuterung, der Veranschaulichung oder als Hinweis dienen und darf nicht länger als nötig sein.
Zudem müssen Sie das Zitat als solches bezeichnen und die Quelle angeben.
Nennt die Quelle den Urheber, müssen Sie auch diesen erwähnen.
Beispiel: In einem Artikel über Friedrich Dürrenmatt dürfen Sie aus Werken des Schriftstellers, Biographien oder Studien zitieren,
wenn Sie diese Zitate zur Veranschaulichung Ihrer Aussagen verwenden.
Vom Zitatrecht nicht erfasst ist hingegen, wenn Sie Ihren Artikel mit Fotografien von Dürrenmatt lediglich ausschmücken,
ohne auf diese Bilder explizit Bezug zu nehmen.
Probably they would also refer to law texts somewhere there, else generally all Swiss law texts are at admin.ch.
PS: I presume depending on which country you post from or live in,
their laws might or might not apply, too, in some cases / sense.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Any links/references to the "Liberty Chart"?
I had never heard of it until this thread, but in the German-speaking section of the astro.com forum
there had been at least two long sequences of posts related to the birth chart of the USA with
(often from my side) often also 2 July charts,
including discussions about primary sources for that day, and so on...
I even went so far to order scans of the diary of the father of Caesar Rodney
to be sure of his birth time (since at least one biography got it wrong for all that it appears),
in order to maybe have a clue when he would have most likely arrived in Philadelphia
to cast his vote for independence (last part of the Lee Resolution).
Caesar Rodney, horoscope for birth date 7 October 1728 Jul.Cal. (18 Oct 1728 gr
(There astonishingly, moderators/administrators left two charts for Caesar Rodney,
even though one is AA like for Hillary Clinton, wink, wink, nudge, nudge... )
My article with scans of two pages of the father's diary:
https://www.exactphilosophy.net/caesar-rodney-birth-time.pdf
The first thread with collective research around the birth of the USA was as part of the "Mondfaden",
starting roughly at post #415 in June 2015 (I think Mercury was retrograde):
Der Mond und die Astrologie (und die Welt)
(The Moon and astrology (and the world))
Forum Archive
The other thread was this one in 2020 (this one has lots of research into events before and after 2 and 4 July,
and charts of people involved, etc., with often interesting correlations):
Die Schwere Geburt der USA
(The difficult/heavy birth of the USA)
Forum Archive
The reason I posted so much was in the end that for all those years I had the wrong time in my head
for the Sibly chart (16:50 instead of 17:10), and after I found that out,
I thought that the Sibly chart explains already a lot and without sources for the time on 2 July,
I more or less let it be...
But, of course, 2 July with very similar houses than Sibly...................
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Logos said (Fri 14 Apr 2023 15:14:46 CEST):
„Der krumme Baum lebt sein Leben, der gerade Baum wird ein Brett.“
Chinesisches Sprichwort.
Astrologisch wüsste ich jetzt nichts dazu. 😂
Das kenne ich von Zhuang Zi (Dschuang Dsi):
Der knorrige Baum
Zhuang Zi (Dschuang Dsi), Das wahre Buch vom südlichen Blütenland, 1. Esoteris...
Der alte Eichbaum
Zhuang Zi (Dschuang Dsi), Das wahre Buch vom südlichen Blütenland, 1. Esoteris.
Taoismus... Hätte ich aus verschiedenen Gründen oft mit dem Element Wasser verbunden betrachtet, aber wohl nicht nur...
Zhuangzi – Wikipedia
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
etherea said (Fri 14 Apr 2023 21:32:34 CEST):
I was given the details of the Liberty chart from a US astrologer who gets astonishingly accurate predictions using progressions -
to the day, often - and he uses this chart.
I recall having further info on it a few years ago, but will have to trawl to get links,
but it might be this chart is based not upon the completion of the signing,
but the "Date of the adoption of Thomas Jefferson's preamble to the Resolution of Independence,
which was passed on the 2nd of July" quote from ADB.
The key thing for me is that it works (the Draconic chart is astonishing - I only looked at that for the first time today),
but I don't insist others use it.
I am just as interested to see how other people evaluate US affairs using the chart of their preference.
Thanks a lot, I will give some attention in the years to come*.
Definitely seems like there are practically no primary sources with times of day for 2 July,
but if the chart works, would certainly be very interesting...
In 2015 I had proposed one for in the morning with Uranus at the MC,
as there was also a thunderstorm around that time (and Uranus key in that time of Enlightenment etc.)
and at least in a much later theater play
Caesar Rodney would have arrived just in time when the session of the continental congress began again in the morning
(9 AM according to records of the continental congresss, if I recall correctly),
and Thomas McKean wrote in a letter a few decades later
that the vote on independence would have been relatively shortly after the beginning in the morning,
but since he also wrote something in the same letter that was almost certainly historically not correct,
nothing is sure... and I don't remember any times for the preamble,
actually I was not even aware that this would have been the same day,
but is most likely in the records of the continental congress.
Anyways, thanks again
(* For example, the first of 3 Pluto returns for the Sibly chart was around 20 Feb 2021
(when Trump's Truth Social was originally scheduled to go live, and near the start of the war in the Ukraine,
I wonder how things look like for the "Liberty" chart...)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Dj Lucca - Japan Sugar
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Rolf said (Sat 15 Apr 2023 04:06:58 CEST):
That's the legend.
It's not clear from primary sources when on the day he arrived,
nor would that immediately be related to the suggested event for the "Liberty Chart" as I understood
(see text and links further above).
(My general take is that with Mercury retrograde in early July 1776 and quite some pressure to decide and act,
things did maybe not in all cases occur in the order officially reported,
also since otherwise they would often seemingly not fit together.)
There is no note in the Journals of the Continental Congress about the preamble,
hence there is no official decision on it reported for 2 July 1776,
but it may well have been discussed,
and well possible that Jefferson or someone else who was involved reported this at the time.
(Personally, I would not have taken the preamble as the event that founded the USA,
except as part of passing the declaration of independence.
The only thing missing in the last part of the Lee Resolution is "United States" (instead of "United Colonies"),
while that step is arguably also automatic.
But a time for passing the resolution so late in the afternoon seems also unlikely from the journal entry below
because they seem to have continued to worked after passing it...)
The Congress resumed the consideration of the resolution agreed to by and reported from the committee of the whole;
and the same being read, was agreed to as follows:
Resolved, That these United Colonies are, and, of right, ought to be, Free and Independent States;
that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown, and that all political connexion between them,
and the state of Great Britain, is, and ought to be, totally dissolved.1
Agreeable to the order of the day, the Congress resolved itself into a committee of the whole;
and, after some time, the president resumed the chair.
Mr. [Benjamin] Harrison reported, that the committee have had under consideration the declaration to them referred;
but, not having had time to go through ∥the same, desired leave to sit again:
Source: https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(jc00523))
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Mohn said (Fri 14 Apr 2023 08:55:03 CEST):
Eigentlich schon erschreckend, daß fünf Sichtweisen auf eine Person fünf verschiedene Personen ergeben.
Man sollte meinen, daß wir Hillary Clinton sofort 'astrologisch' identifizieren können müssten.
Kommt man nie aus der eigenen subjektiven Suppe raus? Astrologie müsste doch als Werkzeug funktionieren, sich selbst zu überwinden?
Wäre ich Astrogegner, würd ich sagen, wir könnten das, was wir hier die ganze Zeit betreiben an den Nagel hängen.
Jedenfalls habe ich gestern und heute Morgen etwas anderes versucht,
und mir ein Interview mit ihr bei der Howard Stern Show von Anfang
Dezember 2019 ganz angeschaut, sind insgesamt etwa 2.5 Stunden:
Das Format der (Radio) Show ist schon recht geeignet, um die Leute doch
recht unmittelbar zu sehen, zumindest mehr als sonst in Medien üblich,
daher schien mir das gut geeignet zu sein um sie etwas "kennenzulernen".
Insgesamt wirkt sie schon wie Luft von der Erscheinung (also passend zu
der Zeit 18:45 mit Zwillinge AC und Wassermann MC). Sie spricht oft mit
den Händen dazu (Hände/Arme wären Zwillingen zugeordnet), und ist auch
sehr flexibel wenn die zweite Moderatorin was dazwischenwirft. Und sie
spricht viel von Fortschritt, davon es für alle besser zu machen, was
schon für einen Wassermann MC sprechen würde. Auch ihre Antwort auf die
Frage von Howard Stern, ob es sie nie gestört hätte bei Saturday Night
Live aufzutreten, da sie kein Comedian ist und so, fand ich sehr passend
zu einem Wassermann MC, grob dass, wenn es den Leuten, die das schauen,
Freude macht, es ihr dann auch Freude macht das zu tun. Und insgesamt
war eben ihre Erscheinung wohl schon eher Luft als Feuer (für 22:45 mit
Löwe AC und Widder MC). Das wäre ja auch konsistent mit der leicht etwas
wahrscheinlicheren Interpretation der Uhrzeit auf dem Geburtszertifikat.
Ich fände es allerdings immer noch falsch, falls die Astro-Databank das
zweite Horoskop (22:45) ganz entfernt hätte aufgrund von astrologischen
Überlegungen (und nicht ggf. noch weiteren, nicht öffentlichen Quellen),
da es rein von den bekannten Quellen her immer noch recht zweideutig ist.
(Die Unterscheidung zwischen was astrologisch ist und was die Fakten,
muss grundsätzlich in der ADB strikt sein, sonst wird sie unglaubwürdig
für Forschungen die auf deren Daten versuchen, Aspekte der Astrologie
naturwissenschaftlich zu belegen. Ja, die andere Lesart ist in den Source
Notes noch enthalten, und doch finde ich es so nicht richtig. Not amused.)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
xphi. said (Thu 13 Apr 2023 21:43:08 CEST):
Jan Martin said (Fri 14 Apr 2023 13:19:15 CEST):
Also, Ihr habt mit 18:45 eine richtige Uhrzeit, aus der einige von Euch etwas falsches machen,
und nun möchte xphi eine weitere falsche Uhrzeit ins Spiel bringen? Äääh ...
Das war natürlich ein Witz gewesen...
Kennst du nicht das Salomonische Urteil aus der Bibel, wo zwei Frauen behaupten, die Mutter desselben Babys zu sein,
König Salomon befiehlt es in zwei Teile zu teilen und jeder der Frauen eine Hälfte zu geben,
die echte Mutter dann auf das Kind verzichten will aber die falsche Mutter für das Zerteilen ist,
und daher Salomon dann das Kind der richtigten Mutter gibt?
Salomo – Wikipedia
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Noch ein Detail: Es ist ja recht auffällig, dass Hillary Clinton öfters mal die Augen weit aufmacht wenn sie mit jemandem redet,
häufig wohl mit mit dem Kopf etwas auf den Gesprächspartner zugehen.
Für die Geburtszeit 18:45 ist der Fixstern Aldebaran recht nahe am AC, etwa 2° noch im 12. Haus.
Angenommen die Geburtszeit wäre nicht ganz auf die Minute exakt, könnte Aldebaran durchaus innerhalb von einem Grad beim AC sein.
Aldebaran ist das rechte Auge im Sternbild Stier.
Und ich dachte da auch noch an Hera, in der griechischen Mythologie die Gattin vom Götterherrscher Zeus.
Hera wird mehrmals in den Mythen als "kuhäugig" beschrieben, und natürlich war sie auch sehr progressiv,
diskutierte immer mit ihrem Gatten und versuchte auch mal eine Revolution in der Mythologie.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Mir gefällt "Then he inserted an element of doubt by adding [......]
Incomprehensible: I have no idea of what he meant." bei den Source Notes zu Kafka in der ADB gut
(deutsch: "Dann fügte er ein Element des Zweifels ein, indem er hinzufügte [.......]
Unbegreiflich: Ich habe keine Ahnung, was er meinte."), daher noch was zu Hillary Clinton,
auch wenn es astrologisch jetzt schon nach 18:45 aussieht (siehe oben)....
Hillary Clinton trägt beim Interview mit Howard Stern Ohrringe mit so Spiralen drauf,
die mich sehr an Ammoniten erinnern, nicht zuletzt da ich schon seit meiner Kindheit einen Silberring mit dem Motiv trage.
Genauer der Abdruck eines versteinerten Ammoniten in eine Sepiaschale (Teil von einem Tintenfisch),
dann ausgegossen mit flüssigem Silber, mit Hilfe meiner Mutter,
die seit etwas davor in der Zeit begonnen hatte Schmuck zu machen und Steine zu schleifen (also Goldschmieden).
Mein Mond ist im Widder (17°) im 10. Haus, und Silber wäre Mond (und damit auch Bezug zu Mutter),
und Ammon in Ammonit wäre Amun, der widderköpfige Gott im Alten Ägypten,
natürlich auch weil sich die Spiralen auch in den Hörnern des Widders spiegeln...
Ammoniten – Wikipedia
Mein AC ist früh im Löwen (wie bei Hillary 22:45), allerdings bei mir mit Merkur am AC
(noch knapp im 12. Haus aber schon im Löwen, und noch langsam rückläufig, ein paar Stunden danach wieder direkt),
was vielleicht mich sowas wie einen Mix der zwei ACs machen würde...
Allerdings frage ich mich jetzt doch noch ob die Spirale nicht doch auch zu spät in den Fischen passen könnte,
so irgendwie auch als Symbol für Unendlichkeit, und Ammoniten lebten im Meer, also vielleicht in meinem Fall der Saturn Ende Fische,
und bei Hillary Clinton der Mond (18:45)?
Das würde den Ring auch bei mir in etwas anderem Licht erscheinen lassen, was mir durchaus gefallen könnte...
[added: her left earring from video still:]
Spannend vielleicht auch, dass bei Howard Stern in der ADB
mit sehr dürftigen Quellen ausgerechnet genau zwei Horoskope gezeigt werden wo eines einen Löwe AC / Widder MC hat
und das andere einen Zwillinge AC und Wassermann MC.
Hätten sich die zwei im Interview ev. gut verstanden weil ähnliche Häuser...?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Hm, doch nochmal kurz im Kreis, der Mars ist im Krebs ♋︎ …
Bin mich das ja sowieso schon gewöhnt von Geburt an...
Mit den zwei Ohrringen wirkt sie eben schon auch meist etwas versteckt unter den Haaren wie ein Widder,
mit den Ohrringen als ganz kleinen Hörnern,
was für sich allein genommen gut zu einem Mond sehr früh im Widder passen könnte.
Nun schaute ich aber noch auf das Datum wo das Interview war.
Gepostet wurden die Videos auf Youtube am 6.12.2019, was Mond im Widder gewesen wäre,
aber das Interview war schon am Mi 4.12.2019, wo der Mond sicher noch in den Fischen war,
was natürlich auch zu dem Verlauf des Interviews passen könnte,
inkl. ggf. weniger kämpferisch als vielleicht mit einem Widder MC sonst üblicherweise...?
https://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/2000/ae_2019.pdf
Ausgelöst hat das bei mir, neben den "Mini-Widderhörnern" auch, dass ich nochmals auf die Saturnare schaute,
da die andernorts (und auch bei mir selbst) gut zu funktionieren scheinen,
aber sicher formal viel zu wenig breit abgestützt.
Ich schaute mal nur auf die Häuser vom Saturn, für den Bereich, wo sie im jeweiligen Zeitraum was verwirklicht hätte.
18:45: Bis 1977 im 5. Haus, bis 2006 Spitze 11. Haus, ab dann Ende 6. Haus.
22:45: Bis 1977 am IC im 4. Haus, bis 2006 am MC im 10. Haus, ab dann im 5. Haus.
Und das zweite passt da viel besser in meiner Sicht, inkl. zu dem Buch,
das sie auf Ende 2019 hin mit ihrer Tochter zusammen geschrieben und publiziert hatte
und von dem im Interview 2019 auch die Rede war...
Aber, rein von dem wie sie insgesamt wirkte in dem Interview, müsste es halt doch 18:45 sein mit Zwillinge AC und Wassermann MC,
auch da sie sich oft wieder von "freundlichem Geplänkel" im Gespräch wieder löste und recht fix "weitermachen" wollte,
so wie es mir schien, was besser zu MC Wassermann wie Widder passen würde...
Jedenfalls, ich empfehle insbesondere beim zweiten Teil ca. die erste Hälfte wo sie von ihrer Mutter erzählt...
Hm, ich bin immer noch unschlüssig...
PS: Hier noch etwas kürzer zusammengefasst, am Ende halt doch ev. einfach gelernt,
dass Widderhörnchen schon Ende Fische wachsen würden?
Mir waren ihre kleinen spiraligen Ohrringe aufgefallen, die man nur selten sah,
wegen ihren Haaren, und die erinnerten mich an meinen Ammonit Silberring, den
ich immer trage grob seit ich etwa 10 bin, und mit den kleinen Widderhörnchen
am Kopf wäre eben ein Mond früh im Widder "against all odds" eben doch...
Ich kann wohl nicht anders im Moment als so, die Häuser der Saturnrückkehren
würden dann auch viel besser passen:
18:45: Bis 1977 im 5. Haus, bis 2006 Spitze 11., ab dann Ende 6.
22:45: Bis 1977 am IC im 4. Haus, bis 2006 am MC im 10., ab dann im 5.
Gerade das Buch, das sie mit der Tochter (5. Haus Kinder) 2019 schrieb und
das in dem Interview mit Howard Stern auch mehrfach erwähnt wurde, würde
auch dazu passen, und die Zeiten vorher eben auch besser.
Nur ist Widderum (pun!) die Methode mit den Rückkehrhoroskopen mind. von
meiner Seite her formal noch nicht breit genug abgestützt um darauf was
schon gesetzt abzuleiten...
Tja, immer im Kreis...
Aber ja, von der Erscheinung gesamthaft, da wäre sie schon Zwillinge MC
und Wassermann MC viel mehr als Löwe/Widder (wie ich). Und eben, vielleicht
beginnen die Widderhörnchen ja schon Ende Fische zu wachsen...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ich war mir nich ganz sicher wo posten, da mit Mars-Rückkehrhoroskopen für mich,
allerdings da ich in der ADB bin
und damit sowieso in gewisser Weise "vogelfrei" und ich auch nicht um Hilfe um das Thema hier herum frage,
sondern es mehr als Beispiel zeigen möchte, mal hier unter "Alle anderen Richtungen" gepostet,
ich vermute mal sehr verbreitet sind Rückkehrhoroskope im Allgemeinen nicht, ausser natürlich für die Sonne (Solare)...
Also, mir war aufgefallen, dass ich ab Juni 2021 erstmals auf meiner Website hinschrieb, dass sie im Dornröschenschlaf wäre
(und etwas später auch noch, dass sie dabei träumt).
Ich dachte mir, hätte ev. damit zu tun, dass ich sowas wie ein natürliches Ende erreicht hatte,
was eben auch durchaus sein könnte, die wesentlichen Entdeckungen um das Hauptthema scheinen gemacht,
und im Frühling hatte ich schon mit etwas begonnen, das die Ideen in einem Buch hoffentlich zugänglicher enthalten würde,
ich hatte dazu insbesondere schon im Frühling 2021 (digitale) Fonts (Schriften) gemacht,
und war bis irgendwann später im Mai auch sehr aktiv unterwegs, machte viele Dinge, aber danach nicht mehr...
Und ab 2022 archivierte ich auch meine Posts vom Usenet und später vom Astrodienst Forum, plus noch ein paar andere Dinge,
alles in Bereichen auf meiner Website, die nicht von Suchmaschinen indiziert werden
(schon vor der Ankündigung der Schliessung des Astrodienst Forums).
Nun die Marsare. Erst das, was vom 19.6.2019 bis 23.05.2021 galt:
Ich hatte die alle erst heute Abend online berechnet, und ganz naiv geschaut:
Venus beim AC könnte doch gut zu einem Buchprojekt mit selbstgemachten Fonts passen?
Und hatte auch was recht minimales, was sich ev. im MC im Wassermann spiegeln würde,
der Stil vom Buch war mind. so ca. wie Bukowski oder andere "Undeground" Schriftsteller schrieben,
sehr minimal, einfache kurze Sätze, auch wohl wie Hollywood (Scripts)...
Mars beim n.Mondknoten im zweiten Haus, da wohl auch sonst recht aktiv,
zumindest mehr als beim nächsten Marsar:
Das wäre dann vom 23.05.2021 bis 29.04.2023 gültig (also noch knapp 2 Wochen).
Und ja, mit dem s.Mondknoten am MC wäre doch wohl kaum was mit Öffentlichkeit,
da eher versinken, schlafen, träumen, und auch unmittelbar beim AC mit Saturn auch schwieriger wie sonst,
war tatsächlich so, dass der Umgang mit Mitmenschen nicht mehr so fast problemlos war wie sonst meist,
[...]. Mars im 6. Haus, ja wohl schon immer irgendwie im Stress mit was tun,
und doch irgendwie nicht so das Resultat wie sonst, aber schwer zu sagen.
Jedenfalls würde es wohl in zwei Wochen bis 7.10.2024 wieder mind. anders werden,
mit dem neuen Marsar da:
Das fühlt sich auf den ersten Blick besser an. Und vielleicht wirft das auch schon seine Schatten/Strahlen voraus,
bei der Arbeit nach eben mind. einem Jahr mit nicht so interessanter Arbeit, endlich ein interessantes, neues Projekt,
also Widder AC, wo auch mein Mond ist für das neue, und der Zeitrahmen ist doch recht knapp berechnet,
und hängt einiges dran, aber macht Spass...
Aber klopfe auf Holz, und hoffe mal generell auch etwas mehr Aktivität.
Ich muss allerdings auch sagen, dass ich in den letzten zwei Jahren insb. auch die Dinge auf und um meine Website
doch auch gestreamlined habe, was auch nicht schlecht war...
Und selbstverständlich hat es ja wie immer auch alles andere drumherum, Transite, Progressionen, mundane Konstellationen, usw.
Da sähe ich sicher auch die Jupiter-Saturn Konjunktion im Dezember 2020, nach der eben das quasi natürliche Ende meiner Forschung,
bzw. mind eine Art Abschluss des Kernthemas "Elemente aus Raum und Zeit" durch ein paar wenige noch Fehlende Puzzleteile stattfand.
Mich hatte/hätte aber erstaunt, dass der Transit von Chiron über meinen MC und nun auch Mond einen derartigen Effekt hätte,
nachdem ich die Chironrückkehr praktisch ohne irgendwelches Leid erlebt hatte, war sogar schön,
aber auch das sind nur so zwei Dinge rausgepickt...
Jedenfalls ja vielleicht auch was für andere, mal zu versuchen, Marsare oder andere Rückkehr-Horoskope zu berechnen...
Man sieht ja an den Horoskopzeichnungen wo ich das tat, und soweit ich weiss geht das ausser Solare nirgends sonst so einfach...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Rolf said (Sun 16 Apr 2023 10:25:38 CEST):
@Rolf Ja, ich zumindest wusste das schon seit um letztes Jahr herum Jan/Feb...
Solare (Sonnenrückkehr-Horoskope) hatte ich schon relativ lange fast jedes Jahr etwas angeschaut,
erstmals davon gehört hatte ich 2002 von Werner Held direkt.
Danach hatte ich auch selten mal Lunare (Mondrückkehr-Horoskope) angeschaut
(ich glaube u.A. um den Mondfaden herum also wohl so 2015/2016).
Erst am 22. Januar 2021 um 16:14 (MEZ) brachte mich Piroschka im astro.com Forum in einem Faden im englischsprachigen Teil,
den ich eröffnet hatte ("Atomic Model" of the Zodiac Signs), auf die Saturnare.....
Seither hatte ich die in ein paar Fällen angeschaut, und jedesmal fand ich dass sich darin die Dinge bzw. Saturnthemen sehr gut spiegelten,
besser in meiner Wahrnehmung als praktisch alles andere, das ich in der Hinsicht in der Astrologie kenne.
Und dann auch u.A. mal das Marsar vom Januar 2022 von Putin (ich weiss, seine Geburtsdaten sind nicht so gesichert)
schien sehr gut zum Krieg in der Ukraine zu passen,
ich bin gespannt ob sich da was spezifisch auf die nächste Marsrückkehr vom 31.12. dieses Jahres hin tut,
sie krasse Energie die um sein momentan wirkendes Marsar bestanden zu sein scheint
(war nahe an der riesigen Vulkaneruption im Tonga im Pazifik),
würde sich wohl so mind. statistisch betrachtet da kaum wiederholen können,
also hoffentlich dann mind. relative Entspannung dort...
Deshalb wurmt es mich jedenfalls schon auch, dass bei Hillary Clinton die Saturnare irgendwie nicht zu funktionieren scheinen,
wieso genau weiss ich noch nicht, und eine Möglichkeit wäre eben durchaus eine falsche Geburtszeit trotzt allem Anschein
(astrologisch und vom Geburtszertifikat her) sonst dagegen... 🫥
Noch zum Buch: Ich hatte glaube ich letztes Jahr mal so zwei Bücher von FF bestellt gehabt,
ev. das genannte (von 2006) und auch das zu den Fixsternen,
das glaube ich auch schon mind. ursprünglich älteren Datums ist,
also noch vor der (aus meiner Sicht) seltsameren Zeit so in den 2010ern bei FF,
allerdings hatte ich die Bücher dann doch nicht behalten, war mir irgendwie doch nicht wohl dabei gewesen,
aber vielleicht bestelle ich ja das zu den Saturnaren doch noch (mal?),
zumindest kann ich es im Moment aus direkter Erfahrung weder empfehlen noch davon abraten...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ich habe meine Sicht auf den Scan des Geburtszertifikates etwas revidiert,
siehe Abbildung unten mit roten Linien um die "1"en bzw. den Rücken der "6"
(bzw. eben alternativ die "1" einer "10"):
(1) Geburtszeit
(2) "Date blood specimen was taken" (Datum wo die Blutprobe entnommen wurde)
(3) "Date signed" (Unterschriftsdatum (zur Unterschrift des Arztes))
Entscheidenend für mich ist, dass es bei der Geburtszeit doch eine kleine Krümmung zu haben scheint,
die zu einer "6" passen würde.
Daher wären es zusammen mit der Linie, die anscheinend doch auch leicht unter der vorgedruckten gestrichelten Linie durchläuft
(vgl. weiter oben im Faden), doch genug wahrscheinlich eine "6", um es vertretbar zu machen,
das Horoskop für 22:45 in der Astrodatabank nicht mehr zu zeigen, nur noch das für 18:45 –
das ist rein vom Geburtszertifikat her in meiner Sicht vertretbar, da ja auch die Problematik in den Source Notes aufgeführt wird.
Es gab ja noch das Argument, dass es bei der Geburtszeit bei der "0" sowas wie einen Ansatz oben hätte (siehe ein paar Seiten zurück),
ich bin mir da mittlerweile nicht so sicher, das könnte ein Artefakt vom Scan sein, dass es daher eckiger erscheint,
dazu hätte es noch gewisse weitere Indizien, wie folgt.
Die Person, die das Datum bei (3) schrieb scheint vom allgemeinen Schriftbild und insbesondere von der "4" und "7" her nicht dieselbe zu sein,
die bei (1) und/oder (2) geschrieben hatte.
Von Kontext her, wäre es auch am Ehesten der Arzt selbst gewesen, der zu seiner Unterschrift hinzu auch noch das Datum ausgefüllt hätte
(oder ev. sonst eine weitere Person am 28.10.).
Daher wären auch Ansatz und Form der "0" bei (3) eher nicht relevant für die Interpretation bei der Geburtszeit bei (1)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
In 2019 apparently about 1.3 million people had "Top Secret" security clearance in the USA,
that is about one person in 250.
(I wrote "about" because someone working, say, for the NSA and the CIA might show up two times
because CIA and NSA might not tell each other who exactly works for them...)
There may be further restrictions depending on where you work regarding what you can see,
but I really have no clue how these things would be organized in detail...
How many people have access to the government’s most sensitive secrets?
The total number of individuals with eligibility to access classified information in 2019
(the last year the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a report) was 4.2 million.
Within that figure are 1.3 million individuals with a Top Secret security clearance.
How Many People Have a Top Secret Security Clearance?
Should in any case somehow show in the birth chart of the USA...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
etherea said (Sat 15 Apr 2023 07:53:41 CEST):
Still works for that chart, with the addition of the evidently "divided population" as evidence;
Pluto is duality, and thus with the Pluto Return, heightens that element.
Let me just reply some thoughts to that part for now...
Pluto and "duality" would be something that I would not have generally associated with Pluto.
Any sources or specific cases maybe?
Pluto specifically in Capricorn would be something related to duality in my view,
due to the association of Capricorn with the Roman god Janus that looks both ways.
Janus also stood for New Year, one face looking back into the past year, one forward into the new one.
According to Ovid who wrote down the Roman calendar for the first half of the year in the "Fasti",
there was a celebration of Janus on January first:
See how Janus appears first in my song
To announce a happy year for you, Germanicus.
Two-headed Janus, source of the silently gliding year,
The only god who is able to see behind him,
Ovid (43 BC–17) - Fasti: Book I
Janus - Wikipedia
For July 2, Pluto very near the moon might explain the first "planet" discovered in the USA,
in the new world, would be close to home there.
The moon in Capricorn was also why I astrologically favored 2 July over 4 July,
because "the people" are often seen in mundane astrology as the moon,
so a "divided population" might rather be moon in Capricorn than in Aquarius,
at least I had been associating Aquarius with doing things together, helping each other, getting together.
But maybe that was too naive, in mythology Prometheus ("forethought")
and his brother Epimetheus ("afterthought") are argubaly two split souls as part of the same person,
or also Prometheus and Zeus...
So maybe the rather unconscious/instinctive side in a country, which the moon could at least in part represent,
could also in Aquarius maybe be split, while the country overall might still pursue some common interests...
Another idea I had with the first proposed chart with Uranus at the MC in Gemini was
that maybe the USA of the past (IC in Sagittarius) would have been that very wide country, calm, and also religious,
while on the way to the MC with centuries elapsing,
it would have come to quick communication in ever shorter and shorter texts ("tweets", tik tok), driven by electricity/technology...?
One thing that maybe speaks more for 4 July is that then Venus is already about 3° into Cancer,
which would be closer to a common theme of planets around there in Cancer in famous people at the time,
including Kings in England around the time...
I think I once posted a table at the old forum, but cannot find it right now, maybe a little later...
Here's the chart I call the "theater chart", 2 July 1776 at 9:45
(which is likely from historical sources too early, as they nominally started at 9 and first read several letters,
according to the journal of the continental congress, but Mercury was retrograde then,
and I guess I hang on to it somewhat...):
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Sitina said (Sun 16 Apr 2023 07:53:41 CEST):
Ich finde es nach wie vor derart evident ,dass es sich um eine 1 bei der Geburstzeit handelt auch bin ich der Meinung ,das
es sich um den selben Schreiber handelt, denn es ist schon eher unwahrscheinlich ,dass
zwei oder sogar drei verschiedene Personen die 1 als geraden Strich schreiben.
Zur "1" als Strich: Ich bin kein Experte, hätte aber gesagt, in den USA mind. Ostküste wäre das ziemlich nochmal gewesen.
Hier hat es z.B. die Geburtsurkunde von Fred Trump (dem Vater von Donald) so um 1905 herum wo er geboren war:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/04/03/another-trump-birther-conspiracy-debunked-with-birth-certificate-this-time-his-father/
Ich hätte gesagt, so wie die in den USA oft die Dinge in der Kommunikation streamlinen,
wäre oft keine Zeit für einen Haken an der "1" gewesen, aber, wie gesagt, nicht wirklich im Detail Erfahrung damit,
ich könnte schon auch noch falsch liegen mit der üblichen Schreibweise der "1"...
PS: Siehe hier ab 4 min:
Sie sagt da schon, dass in den USA die "1" meist nur als Strich geschrieben wird...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
etherea said (Sun 16 Apr 2023 15:51:31 CEST):
I am more interested in the issue ref. classified information leaks than the US chart selection,
and would suggest people use whichever chart works for them.
However, Pluto denoting duality has long been something I have worked with (for example, Pluto opposition Sun = "The Divided Self"),
and attended lectures, read many books (ranging from Jeff Green and the other amazing book written in the 1930s by Fritz Brunhubner)
and online articles on it all, plus many hours of contemplation on it (Pluto is very, very powerful in my own natal chart).
Yes, he does denote Janus. He also presides over life and death (birth of a child often includes Pluto in female charts),
extremes of wealth or the stripping away of prosperity (when Pluto takes, he takes All), power or powerlessness,
the 'all or nothing' energy; he rules extremes at both ends of whatever spectrum.
He marks the un-manifest infinite, that which can only be perceived when all interest in materiality has gone, and hence,
he takes everything in order to push us there. As a material example, he indicates the weeny atom or the power of the nuclear bomb,
as well as the transformation of the one into the other - density, and the release of density.
Thanks for the info
One more remark: With Pluto in the USA,
considering that Pluto as an object in space is in no way as special as it has been at least in a large parts of the 20th century
(and likely still important albeit apparently stripped of "absoluteness" (c.f. e.g. #MeToo) into the 21st century)
both in individual lifes/fates and at larger scales.
That might(!) suggest that the "seed" for Pluto would have to be visible in any chart of the USA even without putting Pluto into the chart.
One possibility of likely several for that would be 2 July 1776 because then the moon (as mother?) was where Pluto came to be,
or for the theater chart even the moon in the 5th house, and so on.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
ebe said (Sat 15 Apr 2023 17:12:39 CEST):
Ist 18:45 Uhr die korrekte Geburtzeit?
(Ich habe nicht den kompletten Faden...)
Das wäre so grob mein persönlicher Stand, meine persönliche Einschätzung:
• Scan der Gebursurkunde in der ADB: 75%
(dass 6:45 PM steht dort und nicht 10:45 PM)
• Erscheinung von Hillary Clinton im 2.5-stündigen Interview mit Howard Stern: 90%?
(dass Zwillinge AC und Wassermann MC, aber keine andere Kombination)
• Saturn-Rückkehrhorskope: 10%?
(wenig bis gar nicht überzeugend (22:45 schon mehr), was mich wurmt, Saturn-Rückkehrhorskope und ähnliche Rückkehrhorskope
hatten sonst sehr genau funktioniert gehabt, aber zugegebenermassen erst mit wenigen probiert...)
Damit wäre die Chance, dass es 18:45 wäre, von den Zahlen her nominell/formell:
1 - (1 - 0.75) * (1 - 0.9) * (1 - 0.1) = 97.75%
Wenn wir sonst schon gerade bei Sprichwörtern sind, Groucho Marx (wohl in einem Sketch, aus dem Gedächtnis):
Those are my principles; if you don't like them, well, I got others!
Das waren meine Prinzipien; wenn sie Dir/Ihnen nicht gefallen, nun, ich habe noch andere!
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
ebe said (Sun 16 Apr 2023 12:01:14 CEST):
"Sieh, darum ist es so schwer, sich selbst zu wählen,
weil in dieser Wahl die absolute Isolation mit der tiefsten Kontinuität identisch ist,
weil durch sie jede Möglichkeit, etwas anderes zu werden,
vielmehr sich in etwas anderes umzudichten, unbedingt ausgeschlossen wird."
(Entweder-Oder, Sören Kierkegaard)
Kierkegaard wollte ich gerne mal etwas mehr lesen, bisher immer nur ein klein wenig,
auch oft mal um astro.com Forum rum, wenn ich mich recht erinnere...
Er hatte ja sicher den Mond im Krebs (angenommen das Geburtsdatum wäre nicht falsch),
was schon gut passt zu dem Spruch oben,
bzw. dass so quasi aus beim Stier jeweils eine "Realität" bei den Zwillingen zwei Dualitäten (Entweder/Oder) entstehen
und die sich beim Krebs dann wieder im im ☯ Yin-Yang Symbol oder Krebs Symbol ♋︎ wiederspiegelt wohl,
wie die Gegensätze umeinander kreisen und sich nicht auflösen,
bis dann ein Löwe wie Alexander der Grosse käme und den gordischen Knoten einfach durchtrennen würde,
was ja vielleicht der Jupiter früh im Löwen war bei Kierkegaard in gewisser Weise?
In "Die Wiederholung"... Moment, jetzt habe ich gerade sowas wie ein Deja Vu... Waren wir hier schon mal? ...
Jedenfalls in "Die Wiederholung" macht er für mich eine sehr wichtige Beobachtung ganz früh im Text,
nämlich (im meinen Worten), dass man sich zwar an Bilder und Texte und Situationen zurückerinnern kann,
aber bei Gefühlen nur indirekt, indem wenn man sich an Bilder usw. erinnert, dann wieder Gefühle entstehen.
Und wieso das so ist, ich persönlich würde sagen aus Erfahrung, dass Leute, die da beteiligt waren noch leben müssen,
was auch heissen würde, dass Gefühle wahrscheinlicher tatsächlich geteilt sind
auch wenn physikalisch mit heutigem Wissen nicht nachweisbar, selbst wenn die Personen relativ weit weg sind...
Oder auch nicht...
Soeren Kierkegaard, horoscope for birth date 5 May 1813, born in Copenhagen, ...
Hm, sowas wie mein Lieblingspruch ist ja schon unten, was sollte ich denn noch sagen, ah, was von mir, wieso nicht:
Weltbilder sind fast immer so gestaltet, dass sie sich selbst bestätigen.
(Dieses auch. )
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[ebe said:
Den Gedanken, den Du hier andeutest, habe ich anders in Erinnerung.
Die alten Griechen lehrten, dass alles Erkennen ein Sich Erinnern sei und man zukünftig lehre,
dass das Leben eine Wiederholung sei.]
Dann war's vielleicht einfach meine Interpretation, oder mal schauen wie es in der Wiederholung vielleicht aussähe,
morgen (Korrektur: am Freitag 21.4.)
so um 10:35 wird Merkur rückläufig...
und danke für die Infos!
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
About the recent leaks:
Pluto in Aquarius would be generally more transparent*, less hierarchical and also more macho** than Pluto in Capricorn,
while Sedna towards Gemini would maybe already evoke the theme of fighting teenagers*** in fated way,
plus with the USA having Pluto in Capricorn there might be a load of stuff to reform, flatten, streamline...
* crystal matrix where all are the same, also the prism that splits the rays of the sun (Leo) into a rainbow
** Uranus was castrated by Saturn, hence where his power came from would be related to that
*** e.g. the Discouri brothers in mythology, one a warrior, one a sportsman
So, even though the leaks this time seem relatively harmless and like fabricated by whoever,
it could well be that it was really just the result of a macho argument among just about no longer teens.
There are already voices that ask for reducing the number of documents labelled "Top Secret",
and I guess such "labels" might be a Gemini theme, too.
In IT there is a tendency away from structured security in the sense that you mistrust everything outside the organisation
and trust everything inside to a concept called "Zero Trust" where each service requires authentication and authorization,
I could imagine something similar also to happen inside three letter organisations regarding secrecy,
and maybe in the end less secret stuff, really more transparency for everybody,
and maybe thus also less "conspiracy theories"... maybe...?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
In der griechischen Mythologie gibt es ja die zwei Brüder, die Discuri, die typ. den Zwillingen zugeordnet werden,
und nachdem der eine unter unglücklichen Umständen starb, durften sie abwechselnd einer auf dem Olymp und der andere in der Unterwelt sein,
aber sich nie sehen.
Und Uranus hatte ja die Giganten verbannt in den Tartaros (den untersten Teil der Unterwelt),
wo er sie nicht mehr sehen musste (übrigens mit dem 8. Haus hier im Forum auch was Uranisches in dem Sinn),
bis Zeus sie dann zur Revolution hervorholte.
Könnte also schon sein, dass Hillary Clinton mit Zwillinge AC und Wassermann MC einfach gewisse Dinge zu ihr selbst nicht wahrnehmen würde,
also weitgehend ehrlich sein aus ihrer Warte, aber gewisse Dinge doch unbewusst unter den Tisch kehren, ihnen ausweichen,
und dass daher auch die Menschen misstrauisch würden allgemein?
??
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
xphi. said (Sun 16 Apr 2023 17:36:19 CEST):
Das wäre so grob mein persönlicher Stand, meine persönliche Einschätzung:
• [...]
• Saturn-Rückkehrhorskope: 10%?
(wenig bis gar nicht überzeugend (22:45 schon mehr), was mich wurmt,
Saturn-Rückkehrhorskope und ähnliche Rückkehrhorskope hatten sonst sehr genau funktioniert gehabt,
aber zugegebenermassen erst mit wenigen probiert...
Ein guter Freund von mir hat ein grosses Trigon in der Luft, Sonne Zwillinge, Mond Wassermann, Uranus Waage, AC Wassermann, MC Schütze.
Er reist oft und gerne, auch weit, und auch oft beim Beruf.
Mit Jetlag hat es kaum Probleme, wie er mir gesagt hat, sagt er sich einfach, dass dort wo er ist, gerade jetzt so und so spät ist,
also je nachdem Zeit zum Schlafen oder wach sein...
Von dem her gesehen, vielleicht wäre es ja so wie Hillary Clinton (18:45) gebaut wäre,
so dass Saturn-Rückkehren sich nicht so sichtbar zeigen würden, vielleicht ja auch weil für 18:45 der Saturn bei Geburt im 4. Haus war,
also eher in der Familie zu Hause sichtbar?
Jedenfalls habe ich es jetzt noch mit der Chironrückkehr probiert,
da gab es bei ihr bisher nur genau eine, am 4. Dezember 1997,
also nur ein paar Wochen bevor der Lewinski-Skandal publik wurde...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton–Lewinsky_scandal
News of the scandal first broke on January 17, 1998, on the Drudge Report,
which reported that Newsweek editors were sitting on a story by investigative reporter Michael Isikoff exposing the affair.
The story broke in the mainstream press on January 21 in The Washington Post.
Die ersten Nachrichten über den Skandal erschienen am 17. Januar 1998 im Drudge Report,
der berichtete, dass die Redakteure von Newsweek an einer Geschichte des investigativen Reporters Michael Isikoff arbeiteten,
der die Affäre aufdeckte. Die Geschichte wurde am 21. Januar in der Washington Post veröffentlicht.
Chiron Rückkehr für Hillary 18:45: 4 December 1997 - 12:39 (EST)
Chiron Rückkehr für Hillary 22:45: 4 December 1997 - 16:55 (EST)
H2245-chiron-ret.png
Wohnort in beiden Fällen Washington DC, sie war da ja First Lady...
Für mich würde die Chironrückkehr für 18:45 unmittelbar besser passen, einfach da dann Chiron in 8. Haus gewesen wäre,
also passend zu einer Verletzung mit Bezug zu Sex.
(Für 22:45 wäre Chiron bei der Rückkehr im 6. Haus gewesen, und bei der Arbeit betraf es sie wohl mind. in der Zeit nicht wirklich...)
(Ich war widerum zu faul die Rückkehren anders als bei der Website auf den Bildern zu bestimmen,
zumindest würden Grad+Minuten mit der Geburt übereinstimmen, ich hoffe der Rest stimmt auch...
Kontrolliere ich vielleicht noch die nächsten Tage zur Sicherheit...)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
xphi. said (Mon 17 Apr 2023 16:59:18 CEST):
(Ich war widerum zu faul die Rückkehren anders als bei der Website auf den Bildern zu bestimmen,
zumindest würden Grad+Minuten mit der Geburt übereinstimmen, ich hoffe der Rest stimmt auch...
Kontrolliere ich vielleicht noch die nächsten Tage zur Sicherheit...)
OK, ich habe es noch genauer nachgerechnet, war schon OK,
die zeitliche Genauigkeit der Rückkehr-Horoskope ist wohl von der Grössenordnung von einer Minute,
also da kein Überraschung mehr zu erwarten, und Chiron war bei der Rückkehr etwa gleich schnell wie bei der Geburt,
also 1 Minute bei Geburt früher oder später = ca. 1 Minute bei der Rückkehr früher bzw. später.
Chiron-Rückkehr für Geburtszeit 18:45 (mit Geburt aussen):
Chiron-Rückkehr für Geburtszeit 22:45 (mit Geburt aussen):
Für mich ist die Welt potentiell wieder in Ordnung ,
wenn ich annehme, dass Saturn-Rückkehren bei ihr nicht so sichtbar wären (mal noch zu schauen, wie/ob/etc.),
dann würde anscheinend alles zusammenpassen, für die Geburtszeit 18:45...
Jedenfalls würde mich die Chiron-Rückkehr für Geburtszeit 18:45 schon viel mehr ansprechen mit Chiron im 8. Haus
als die für 22:45 im 6. Haus (wenn auch natürlich bei Geburt und Rückkehr Chiron im Skorpion war,
was ein ähnliches Thema wie das 8. Haus wäre, und mir Erfahrung fehlt mit vielen solchen Rückkehr-Horoskopen...)
(und vielleicht würde ja der s.Mondknoten am AC bei dem Rückkehr-Horoskop für 18:45
auch was bedeuten dürfen in solchen Rückkehr-Horoskopen?) (usw...)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ich habe mir die Saturnare für 18:45 nochmal angeschaut,
diesmal Saturn weniger als was sie aufgebaut hätte in der Zeit als als das,
was ihr da fehlte und sie sich irgendwie schaffen musste.
1948-1977: Da war Saturn im 5. Haus. Wie das mit der Kreativität war bei ihr in der Zeit schwer zu sagen,
sie hat wohl mehr Sport, Lernen, Gemeinschaften gemacht als z.B. was zeichnen oder so, aber nicht so klar.
Da 5. Haus auch Kinder wären, und es dazu einen Mann braucht, bzw. in den USA oft eben fast faktisch einen Ehemann,
ist vielleicht auch klarer wieso Bill Clinton mit der Sonne bei ihrem Saturn da gut passte,
und auch wieso sie sich mit Heirat und so eher schwer tat...
1977-2006: Da war Saturn an der Spitze vom 11. Haus. Könnte man schon so sehen,
dass sie sich als First Lady erst in Arkansas und dann in Washington schon für Gemeinschaften stark machte,
engagiert, auch wohl mit Health Care, wo sie recht anstiess,
oder auch der Titel ihres ersten Buches "It takes a village" (to raise a child),
"Es braucht ein Dorf" (um ein Kind zu erziehen/aufwachsen zu lassen),
was ja besonders für die USA schon fast kommunistisch klingt.
Und im Senat dann ab 2000 war sie anscheinend sehr gut vernetzt, tauschte sich auch mit vielen Republikanern aus,
siehe Howard Stern Show (Videos oben auf Seite 15).
2006-heute: Da war Saturn am DC, also beim Gegenüber, und sie beschrieb auch, dass ab ihrer ersten Kandidatur zur Präsidentin 2007
sich plötztlich all die Politiker im Senat ganz anders und feindseeliger gegenüber ihr verhielten
(siehe wieder Howard Stern Show, mein Worte vielleicht nicht ganz exakt).
Das könnte zumindest passen, auch wenn es "aus dem Nichts" nicht wirklich zwingend wäre,
aber so ein bisschen zwischen den Zeilen gelesen von dem was sie so schrieb, könnte es schon sein,
und ich vermute mal, sie könnte schon happy sein mit ihrem Mann auch jetzt wieder eine Sonne bei ihrem Saturn zu haben.
Jedenfalls jetzt doch nichts unmittelbar wo ich sagen würde, wirkt unmittelbar falsch...
Aber nie absolut bei mir, immer der Zweifel durchaus noch ein kleines bisschen da...
(Wie/wieso Bill Clinton schon verblasste, könnte ich jetzt auch nicht sagen,
ich hätte es jetzt nicht umbedingt Hillary zugeschrieben, wäre wohl eine andere "Untersuchung"...
Mind. für mich, kann ja schon sein, dass andere das rascher erfassen könnten...)
Hier nochmals die Saturnare (ich hoffe sie stimmen...)
1948 (0. Zyklus, 3 von 3, Geburt war 1 von 3), Chicago:
1977 (1. Zyklus, 1 von 1), Little Rock (Arkansas):
2007 (2. Zyklus, 3 von 3), New York NY (Senatorin von New York):
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Nina Simone - Mr. Bojangles
I did not know that song nor much from Nina Simone
until I saw the French movie "En attendant Mr. Bojangles" ("Waiting for Mr. Bojangles") last year...
Surreal movie, and quite tragic, in some ways seems naive, and, yet,
did mirror quite a few things to me about my parents... Well... Moon in late Pisces now...
Trailer for the movie with some music, in French,
but does not really matter so much for the trailer to understand the words, I guess...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[The riddle, started by Sitina,
was about a women she had known (and who was already dead at the time)
for which she had trusted birth data (birth time to the minute from birth certificate via Sitina's mother).
Sitina offered two birth times in the riddle, one correct, one incorrect.
I argued for the time with Taurus AC also via charts for the second Saturn return cycle,
but was wrong, it was the time with Cancer AC (with Uranus at the AC),
which all women who participated got right.
Also since the woman in the riddle had the north node in the first degree of Aries,
like Hillary Clinton for the later birth time,
this makes it questionable how close I got for Hillary Clinton with her chart
via Saturn and Cheiron returns.
Then again, there is a veil against revealing the secrets of astrology,
a collectively guarded secret, by the Fates, hence collectively women.
Hence, I leave it to you out there whether to maybe tackle return charts
as a way to prove something in astrology…]
[…]
[…]
Richard Vetter said (Wed 19 Apr 2023 21:21:48 CEST):
just btw, april 20th was fuehrer's birthday... bad omen, i'd say...
Do you know Brecht's poem Questions From a Worker Who Reads?
Extract:
The young Alexander conquered India.
Was he alone ?
Caesar defeated the Gauls.
Did he not even have a cook with him ?
Nobody else ever born 20 April? ;)
(But yes, to honor the ancient implicit wisdom of Usenet veterans,
the registration of the domain astrologyinternational.org does in fact have a moon-Jupiter conjunction,
not the meeting, though, and different sign/house (and some relation to ADF, too),
and also nothing unique in the world, or in my world neither good nor bad in itself...)
I will grab a beer around that time, cheers... 🍻
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Jun Miyake - Lilies of the valley
Aus dem Film "Pina" (2011, 3D) von Wim Wenders, es hatte gerade eine Doku über WW im Fernsehen...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[…]
[…]
I know where this is going...
Try to scare people off with magic there 
:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnium_(novel) (Kepler in Prague...)
- https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Circle-Rudolf-Astrology-Renaissance/dp/0802715516 (Rudolf II's circle that attracted lots of "strange people")
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libuše (Libuše - Libussa, "foundress" of Prague, "White Goddess" etc.)
- https://english.radio.cz/prague-astronomical-congress-strips-pluto-planet-status-8616438 (Pluto gets the boot...)
"people start nodding off after ~40 minutes" - presumably exactly 42 min...
(HHGTTG, 42 judges in the chamber of Ma'at, ...)
In my view Lilith
(discovered/invented as second focal point of the lunar orbit in 1937 in France)
came up as the French answer to Pluto discovered in 1930 in the USA
(and in a yet unseen marketing action labeled as "Planet" for more than 3/4 of a century and still damages today).
Improvised nonbinding title suggestion for the talk: "Lilith - Would you dare to call her only true or only mean face-to-face?"
I generally do not like to travel much, at least almost always feeling reduced/detached where I am then,
but at least in the past for me Prague had been the exception, had a feeling of home.
Hey, I just heard they even have beer now there...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Thu 20 Apr 2023 17:57:04 CEST):
Entweder in "Alle anderen Richtungen": Dort passt die Rätsel-Ecke am besten hin ...
1. Oder in den Bereich "Persönliches ...": Für den Fall, dass Rätsel Daten von Personen aus dem persönlichen Umfeld enthalten.
Dann wäre das Rätsel für nicht Registrierte hier nämlich nicht einsehbar!
Was haltet Ihr davon?
Für mich macht grundsätzlich beides Sinn...
Es gibt Rätsel z.B. zu besonderen Ereignissen, die mal in den Medien waren, die könnten gut öffentlich sichtbar sein,
würden vielleicht auch Neulinge in der Astrologie sehr interessieren (gut um was zu lernen)
und die sich dann daraufhin vielleicht registrieren, etc.
Andere Rätsel wie das von Sitina sind dann oft nicht öffentlich möglich...
Ob die Leute sich dann dran halten mit wo eröffnen, weiss nicht, aber ev. ja auch einfach verschieben im Fall,
oder kann man die Ecke so beschreiben dass gleich klar?
Wenn nur eine Rätselecke, dann müsste sie wohl schon geschützter sein...
Geometrisch gesehen – angenommen der Boden ist flach und jede Rätselecke ist genau 90° – passen max. 4 Rätselecken rein... 😛
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Jetzt wo Merkur rückläufig ist...
Wie sähe denn die Erklärung für die "Löwenmähne" für die Geburtszeit von 18:45 (Zwillinge AC) aus?
Und wäre dann auch der AC von
Ursula von der Leyen ("Löwen") klar?
Wobei ich mal ein Foto von ihr von hinten sah, wo die Frisur ein perfekter Kreis war,
passend wohl auch zu Waage Sonne...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
@Murmeltier Bei "Medienereignissen" dachte ich an Dinge, die zwar mal lokal irgendwo in den Medien waren oder lange her,
jedenfalls Dinge, die sich zwar in Berichten belegen lassen (auch was da im Detail passierte),
aber schlecht Googel liessen nur von Datum und ungefährem Ort her (was man aus einer Horoskopzeichnung typ. rauslesen kann);
jedenfalls war mein Eindruck im alten Forum, dass die wirklich prominenten Ereignisse wegen Google
kaum mehr zum Rätseln aufgebracht wurden.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Just a detail for the moment: Astrologically maybe unlikely, but if Epstein was born roughly within the first 3 hours after midnight,
his sun would have still been in Capricorn.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Mon 17 Apr 2023 14:37:45 CEST):
Das ist schön gemacht, bei den ersten Sätzen könnte man erst naiv denken, es wäre echt,
dann wird es surrealer bis zu "Hail Hyrda" (aus dem Marvel Universum)!
Ich wollte auch immer schon mal selbst Fake-News streuen:
START FAKE
Wusstet ihr, dass die Eltern Hillary Clinton nach Sir Edmund Hillary benannten,
dem Erstbesteiger* des Mount Everest (des höchsten Berges der Erde),
sie wollten damals schon, dass sie hoch hinaus kommt...!
END FAKE
(* Er war nicht allein, da war noch Sherpa Tensing...)
Und noch folgendes Foto von 2015 oder früher (2012?) verbreiten...
Das hat Google aus den Suchresultaten verbannt, nur noch mit Bing gefunden
(hatte ich ganz früh mal im Huch-Faden zur Geburtszeit gepostet gehabt,
ich glaube im englischsprachigen Teil, mit Buzz Lightyears's "To infinity and beyond!"
(deutsch synchronisiert anscheinend "Bis zur Unendlichkeit… und noch viel weiter!"),
könnte ja nicht schlecht zu einem Wassermann MC passen ):
START FAKE
END FAKE
Der Raumanzug ist von der ersten Taikonautin (Chinesicher Astronautin), Liu Yang... (Erstflug 2012)
Geht wohl darauf zurück, dass Hillary Clinton sagt, sie hätte als Kind mal der NASA geschrieben,
dass sie davon träumt, Astronautin zu werden... Hier ein Tweet von ihr von 2019:
Twitter Tweet
When I was a little girl, I wrote to NASA and told them I dreamed of being an astronaut.
They wrote back and said they weren't taking girls.
A new generation of little girls watched today's historic spacewalk.
May their dreams of reaching the stars have no bounds.
Als ich ein kleines Mädchen war, schrieb ich an die NASA und erzählte ihnen, dass ich davon träumte, Astronautin zu werden.
Sie schrieben zurück und sagten, sie nähmen keine Mädchen.
Eine neue Generation von kleinen Mädchen hat heute den historischen Weltraumspaziergang beobachtet.
Mögen ihre Träume, die Sterne zu erreichen, keine Grenzen haben.
[added: visiting her X (formerly Twitter) account above
on the evening on which I am creating this part of this archive copy (1 Dec 2024),
I noticed that her current profile image looks very, very, very much like a lioness,
see below, which despite rather a "6" than a "10" suggests a birth time of 10:45 PM?:]
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ich hatte gerade kurz bei meinen Musikvideos zwei hinzugefügt gehabt, eins davon im Nachhinein mit Bezug zu David Bowie –
aber dazu etwas weiter unten.
Jedenfalls scrollte ich da noch ein kleines bisschen
und hörte mir dann das Rooftop Concert der Beatles von 1969 in London an ("Don't take me down")...
Dann hatte ich die Idee, das vielleicht als Rätselereignis zu nehmen,
und dachte ev. gewisse Positionen von Planeten verschwommener zu zeigen oder so,
aber am Ende hätte das wohl nichts gebracht,
alleine die Kombination von den schnelleren Planeten hätte erlaubt das Jahr zu finden und so weiter...
Also doch eher nicht, aber ich hatte mir erst doch noch eine Horoskopzeichnung dazu gemacht:
Die Zeit ist wohl wohl nicht ganz exakt, laut Wikipedia
"The four Beatles and Preston arrived on the roof at around 12:30pm"
=> The Beatles (2021). The Beatles: Get Back. London: Callaway Arts & Entertainment. ISBN 978-0-935112962.
Und doch würde sie wohl gut passen zu Pluto im Wassermann... Nur ganz wenig später der MC im Wassermann...
William Lilly ordnet ja bei Steinbock den Wohnort unten im Haus nahe der Erde zu,
beim Wassermann aber beim Dach oder eben hier auf dem Dach...
Bei mir ist momentan eine Opposition von t.Pluto am DC zu meinem Geburtsmerkur am AC (Ende 12. Haus) am Laufen...
Hat vielleicht noch andere Gründe, aber ähnlich wie hier im Sitina-Rätsel
und bei Hillary Clinton gab es auch bei der Arbeit ein paar Dinge wo es zwei Varianten gab,
und momentan scheint es meist die Uranischere/Wassermännischere zu sein, die gewinnt, die die Zukunft ist...
(Im Sitina-Rätsel der AC mit Uranus (übrigens in der Hinsicht der Mond im Krebs beim Rooftop Concert interessant auch),
bei Hillary Clinton Wassermann MC, bei der Arbeit doch das Neue das gewinnt, macht vieles wieder interessanter,
und u.A. softwaretechnisch mind. einmal auch her "vertikales" Design in der Cloud (Wolke, Himmel, Uranus/Wassermann)...
Nun, das eine Video war von Tom Jones, was eins der Pseudonyme war, das David Bowie erst hatte (nach David Jones),
aber wegen dem anderen Tom Jones dann wieder wechselte...
Daher würde ich sagen, dass die Geburtszeit in der ADB von 09:00 doch gut stimmen könnte,
mit AC früh im Wassermann, etwa da wo jetzt der Pluto wäre...
David Bowie, horoscope for birth date 8 January 1947, born in Brixton (London), ...
Aber was ist schon wahr, vielleicht ist ja jede Auflösung einer Frage nur das Spalten des Universums in zwei Teile,
und in einem dieser Universen wäre ja Dali's Autobiographie sogar war?
Kann man der Boheme überhaupt irgenwann trauen der bürgerlichen Welt je die Wahrheit zu sagen,
oder nur dann wenn sie sie anzweifeln würden...?
"Nichts genaues weiss man nicht.", sagte oft ein ehemaliger Arbeitskollege aus München mit adeligem Hintergrund...
Vielleicht auch nur bei mir, mit so viel im 12. Haus, dass alles zusammen kommt, London/England, David Bowie, Wassermann, usw.,
und so vor 10 Jahren sah ich mal was in Prag wo auf einer Brücke von jemandem aufgemalt sowas war wie (engl.)
"Das Geheimnis von Prag" und dann dazu ich glaube mind. das Symbol der Freimaurer.
Also wohl auch Wassermann am Ende, die Legende wäre ja auch die Stadt, die zum Himmel reicht...
Wo are you? (Dialog Amanda Lear (<=> Dali) und David Bowie ab etwa 2:40)
[Bowie (Aquarius AC) leads, of course, back to Sitina and billards in Berlin, closing the circle?
Hm, is a sphinx Aquarius (human face) or Leo (lion body)?
Hence rather Aquarius MC or Leo AC? Well, I’m lost again…
But Hillary Clinton’s face on X looks more like a lion.
Hey, in her current Saturn return chart
for the 6:45 PM birth time there is Neptune ("photography/film") in Aquarius right at the AC just about 1° still in 12 (and Chiron 6° behind),
and Saturn in Leo exactly opposite at the DC just about 1° still in 6 (and Venus 7° behind),
and there is Jupiter in 10 at the MC in Sagittarius.
Conversely, for a 10:45 PM birth time, the AC would be at 3° Taurus with Saturn in the 5th.
Speaks for a birth time of 6:45 PM, right?
And speaks for using Saturn returns, right?
Well, it at least makes Saturn returns very interesting,
as also in the case of Sitina’s riddle in retrospect.]
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
The German Wikipedia has birth data for the Golem of Prague – while the Astrodatabank continues to stubbornly refuse
to create an entry in an act of discrimation of alternative life forms.
Here is what the German Wikipedia says:
Um vier Uhr morgens (es soll sich um den 20. Adar 5340 gehandelt haben, was dem 17. März 1580 entspräche)
begaben sich die drei Männer zu einer Lehmgrube an der Moldau außerhalb der Stadt.
Aus feuchtem Lehm fertigten sie eine drei Ellen hohe Figur an, der sie menschliche Züge verliehen.
Als dies geschehen war, befahl Rabbi Löw seinem Schwiegersohn, siebenmal um den Golem herumzugehen
und hierbei eine Formel (tzirufim) aufzusagen, die der Rabbi ihm vorgab.
Hierauf begann die Tonfigur zu glühen, als sei sie dem Feuer ausgesetzt.
Danach umschritt der Schüler den Golem siebenmal: Der Körper wurde feucht und strömte Dämpfe aus,
und dem Golem entsprossen Haare und Fingernägel.
Als letzter schritt der Rabbi siebenmal um den Golem herum,
und schließlich stellten sich die drei Beteiligten zu Füßen des Golems auf
und sprachen gemeinsam den Satz aus der Schöpfungsgeschichte (Gen 2,7 EU):
„Und Gott blies ihm den Lebensatem in die Nase, und der Mensch wurde zu einem lebendigen Wesen.“
Golem – Wikipedia
At four o'clock in the morning (it is said to have been 20 Adar 5340, which would correspond to 17 March 1580)
the three men went to a clay pit on the Vltava River outside the city.
From damp clay they made a figure three cubits high, to which they gave human features.
When this was done, Rabbi Löw ordered his son-in-law to walk around the golem seven times,
reciting a formula (tzirufim) that the rabbi had given him. Thereupon the clay figure began to glow,
as if it had been exposed to fire. Then the student walked around the golem seven times:
the body became moist and emitted vapors, and the golem sprouted hair and fingernails.
Last, the rabbi walked around the golem seven times,
and finally the three participants stood at the golem's feet and together spoke the phrase
from the creation story (Gen. 2:7 EU):
"And God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being."
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Why would that be postmodern, you might ask? Creating life, would that not be something for the Age of Aquarius,
like Pandora made of clay and more in the mythology around there?
And today creating robots and so on (while the word "robot" comes from Czech anyways, a play by Karel Czapek,
the idea for the word apparently by his brother Josef), artificial intelligence?
Then again, what about the divine couple in Egyptian mythology, I guess the woman with a frog head,
who would create new life there from clay (I guess humans, maybe also animals), her name was Heqet,
which already reminds of the magician goddess Hecate, oh well...
But here is the birth chart (did I already mention that Astrodatabank still refuses to create an entry,
and if pressured they would maybe have the phony excuse that the Golem would be just a mythical figure and never existed,
without presenting any proof from their side to back up such a preposterous claim?):
(The calendar is certainly Julian, as the year is 1580, and the Gregorian Calendar was only introduced two years later in 1582.)
I presume the Mars-Uranus-Saturn conjunction was considered helpful to create new life, quite a spark, I guess,
but with Saturn in the lead still confined, probably helpful to create a body that can sustain itself upright...
But in the first house maybe still more the spark, while Moon Venus in the 2nd house might be more related?
But who am I to analyze, I only noticed Vesta-Sun conjunct, wasn't the Palladium that the Vesta priestesses guarded vertical like...
And Chiron, too, that would be postmodern, to consider such a mix,
considering also that in Mythology Chiron sacrificed his immortality for Prometheus,
hence Chiron involved in creating the Golem would make a whole lot of sense...
Any further observations, with any techniques, from any epoch and timeframe, potentially mixed?
PS: And should there be an ai.org conference in Prague,
what time would be best to try to create a Golem in that timeframe?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[…]
I did not consciously notice anything specific at the time,
but later realized that the book I wrote and published then would seem to fit with my Chiron returns, as follows...
It was a book about star signs (zodiac signs) in terms of transformations of the elements,
so maybe fitting with Chiron also in regard of "transformation"?
And was in a way the first/only book by me so far,
if you do not count the collection of pages/articles from my website as a real "book",
it was the only book so far I wrote that was intended to be only available as a book from the start.
Here's the timeline with Chiron returns:
21 March 2017: Started to write the book "full steam" (in German), was done within a bit more than 3 months...
30 March 2017: Chiron return (direct)
11 November 2017: Chiron return (retrograde)
12 January 2018: "Published" the book, available at lulu.com only, "global reach" pending...
28 January 2018: Chiron return (direct)
31 January 2018: Book available at Amazon
(10 February 2018: Started translating to English, done in about 5 weeks,
although in retrospect sentences that are easy to read in German were too convoluted at least for US reviewers)
(Later in 2018 I placed serveral ads, got 6 reviews)
I sold 52 copies of the German edition, but maybe that number includes 2 I bought to check quality etc.,
because symbolically since Chiron returns every 50 years, that could be it.
The English edition sold about half as good, 24 copies.
Last sales (2+1) in 2022, nothing so far in 2023, also not expecting any sales...
I also sent copies to various astrologers; I think Kepler College in the US put it into their library,
or maybe it was some other organization, would have to look it up...
All in all, financially not successful, invested a few 1000$ for ads etc., not counting the work,
and especially did not reach astrologers with a new idea that seemed most convincing.
But maybe later, when I die like Chiron and maybe some Prometheus would pick it up? I could well imagine that...
at least something to dream of...
I guess that is the overall theme of Chiron,
not be selfish and do something for others in the future? 🙄
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ich hatte den Musikfaden einfach genauso benannt wie den Faden im astro.com Faden, der ja ewig lief
(wurde ja sogar mal von den Admins wegen der Länge formal geschlossen und mit gleichem Titel gleich wieder eröffnet,
und lief dann auch wieder ewig weiter).
Ob der Name mit der Popularität viel zu tun hatte oder nicht, kann ich schlecht sagen, könnte aber schon sein,
die Sonne hat vielleicht etwas, das wie ein Strahl lange leben würde?
Den Namen ändern auf einen anderen Planeten oder mehrere fände ich nicht umbedingt besser,
einfach anders einseitig, aber auch nicht ein Veto mir dazu.
Und ist ja auch ein anderes Forum hier,
bei astro.com hatte es ja schon die Sonne im Firmenlogo und Sonne im Forumshoroskop am MC, erhöht im Widder...
Wie wäre es denn – wenn/falls umbenennen – vielleicht ganz einfach mit "Musikfaden"?
Im Englischsprachigen Teil gibt es übrigens auch einen analogen Faden, auch von mir her,
"What music gets your Sun going?", und rein die Musik wäre ja oft sowieso universell verständlich,
aber wegen Text darum (ggf. auch astrologisch) dann doch zwei gemacht...
Ich hatte beide Fäden schon im "Geburtssaal"-Forum hier vom 2. Januar an eröffnet gehabt,
und eine der Moderatorinnen/Admins hatte mich damals auch gebeten,
die im Februar bei der Forums-Neueröffnung wieder zu eröffnen
(war Phoebe oder ev. auch etherea, weiss gerade nicht mehr exakt wer)...
What music gets your Sun going?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
PS: Und vielleicht auch einen "Filmfaden", wie @Logos oben schrieb? Oder noch einen "Buchfaden"?
Welches Buch bringt euren Merkur ins Grübeln? Welcher Film lässt Neptun ...? Lasst euch von mir wenigstens nicht aufhalten...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ich persönlich hätte lieber mind Bücher getrennt von Musik, und auch lieber Filme getrennt von Musik,
also lieber drei Fäden, wobei schon am Meisten Lust bei Musik was zu posten, je nach Stimmung;
bei Filmen und Büchern hingegen bräuchte es dann schon meist ein bisschen mehr,
wohl eher intellektueller dann schon, hat schon was mit Mond bei Musik...
"roll eyes": z.B. den Link unten als Bild einfügen (also das Icon mit der Landschaft ("Insert Image" Tooltip) klicken
und dann statt raufladen als Link das hier unten reinpasten):
https://www.exactphilosophy.net/noindex/odyssey/astro/img/s-rolleyes.gif
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ah, Moment, der Titel "Welche Musik bringt Eure Sonne auf Trab?" macht ja vielleicht doch ganz viel Sinn so...
Könnte man z.B. lesen "Wie bringt der Mond Eure Sonne auf Trab?", also die Sonne ist in dem Titelt eher passiv, wird beflügelt,
glücklicher durch die Musik, was durchaus geholfen haben könnte, damit der so lange blieb, der Faden.
In dem Fall würde ich eher den nicht umbenennen, aber auch kein Veto von mir,
wenn ganz eindeutig der Wunsch nach Umbenennen da wäre...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
@Logos Ich habe halt dann im englischsprachigen Teil gepostet, ca. 13x bisher dort im Musikfaden,
und wenn ich das richtig gesehen habe du auch 2x dort, wohl erst dort, dann hier...
Ist schon oft so wenn man nur ein Video postet, dass die Musik dann universell verstanden werden kann...
Immer diese Entscheidungen...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
xphi. said (Mon 24 Apr 2023 18:43:27 CEST):
Ah, Moment, der Titel "Welche Musik bringt Eure Sonne auf Trab?" macht ja vielleicht doch ganz viel Sinn so...
Könnte man z.B. lesen "Wie bringt der Mond Eure Sonne auf Trab?", also die Sonne ist in dem Titelt eher passiv,
wird beflügelt, glücklicher durch die Musik, was durchaus geholfen haben könnte, damit der so lange blieb, der Faden.
In dem Fall würde ich eher den nicht umbenennen, aber auch kein Veto von mir,
wenn ganz eindeutig der Wunsch nach Umbenennen da wäre...
Murmeltier said (Mon 24 Apr 2023 19:36:58 CEST):
So, meine Lieben ...
Schluss mit Diskussionen ...
Moderating Mascot hat den Thread jetzt einfach umbenannt ...
Not amused.
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[Murmeltier replied:
Not amused?
Snieeef ... okay ... dann mach ich's wieder rückgängig ...
Okay ... is erledigt ...]
Murmeltier said (Mon 24 Apr 2023 19:45:10 CEST):
Naja, der Threaderöffner darf entscheiden.
Wird immer so kompliziert auf Deutsch...
Also, ich hatte ja extra bei meinem letzten Beitrag noch einen vorherigen von mir zitiert.
Das mit der Sonne im Titel macht aus meiner Sicht eben schon Sinn,
dass die Sonne sowas wie die Lebensenergie/Lebensfreude wäre da, die von der Musik beflügelt würde,
wobei ganz offen ist was genau die Musik astrologisch wäre:
Der Mond für die Gefühle und das periodische, die Venus für die Harmonie, der Saturn für den Rhythmus,
der Neptun für... und so weiter, auch je nach dem Song etc....
Ich sagte ja auch, dass ich kein Veto einlegen würde gegen eine Namensänderung, wenn viele einen anderen Namen wünschten,
aber müsste dann schon recht deutlich sein.
Den Faden hatte ich ja auch nicht nur in Eigeninteresse eröffnet, dachte würde vielen gefallen den wieder zu haben...
Ob ich entscheiden dürfte, keine Ahnung, ich vermute mal gibt keine explizite Forumsregel dazu,
aber jedenfalls fühle ich mich doch ein bisschen verantwortlich,
"alle" zu schützen vor einer vielleicht überschnellten (gibt des das Work überschnellt?) Umbenennung...
Und posten tue ich schon eher im englischsprachigen Musikfaden, wohl auch in Zukunft meist,
die "deutschen Jahre" bei mir scheinen eher vorbei, but never say never...
Jedenfalls von dem her wiederum weniger Gewicht wohl, was ich so denke...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I just watched the first episode. Is really interesting, seems like very much "USA internals",
and I am also wondering about the symbolism of the 2020s,
like that there seemed at least to be lots of violet and yellow in many places,
also in this series, which (Wikipedia) came out 20 April 2020,
thus right when people realized the pandemic, sort of...
Below a chart for the day of the release, for Los Gatos CA, where Netflix has its headquarters,
no time and no clue when they would have made it available in the day.
Sun-Uranus in early Taurus, etc. But also not in the mood for much detailed analysis...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Ist es sinnvoll/gewünscht, dass nun der Musikfaden nur noch für Mitglieder lesbar ist?
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Murmeltier said (Fri 28 Apr 2023 15:55:20 CEST):
Das betrifft die ganze Community Ecke ...
Das war nicht wirklich eine Antwort, das (=dass das die ganze Community Ecke betrifft) war mir ja schon klar...
Die Frage war ob das explizit gewünscht war, und wenn ja wieso?
Denn mir persönlich wäre lieber öffentlich sichtbar, so wie es ursprünglich war.
Weiss aber nicht was sich die anderen dazu denken.
Wirkt halt schon wieder eine Stufe weniger aktiv von aussen das Forum so. Aber wtf...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Oliver said (Fri 28 Apr 2023 09:45:25 CEST):
I recently got involved with a dispute with the Astrology Weekly forum.
One of their members used my chart data from astro-seek.com to do a public critique of me
(and an attempt at gaslighting), [...]
Nobody ever discussed my chart in public, and I am in ADB... 
No such thing as bad publicity in a way...
All these discussions for me as some sort of dinosaur from Usenet are at times a bit like
asking someone who came from the West on a horse to New York whether you
should use the left or right hand for the fork at dinner.
Where's Babylon these days...
I just read a booklet yesterday with short stories (I presume at least partially "just" memories)
by Asta Nielsen (the silent movie star from Denmark...)...
Asta Nielsen - Birth Chart, Horoscope | Astro-Seek.com
Pluto in late Taurus, where Sedna is now, and still at a trine to Saturn now, and in her case at a trine to her Mercury.
I would not be astonished at all (given also my stellium in the 12th) that her Moon would have really been at 3° Taurus in the day,
where the n.node is today and the degree where the moon is traditionally exalted...
The book is some sort of a postmodern pocket book, hardcover, text in blue inside,
and lots of full color illustrations, and a beautiful, special font...
https://www.orellfuessli.ch/shop/home/artikeldetails/A1066428817
The (in-)famous from "Afgrunden" (and, no, that is not Javier Bardem dancing with her...)
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
I had first replied in German, I guess unconsciously also because Roman H. is rather German-speaking....
So far I have only been in Prague in spring, with the sun in Taurus (first due to circumstances, then apparently out of "free will"?),
what might even fit, concerning "living matter"...
Even though... (but see all what I wrote around that at the astro.com forum or on my website,
where there would also be all of my post on a single page, for daring Percivals...)
And, yet, also stereotypes very much a theme around Czech Republic/Prague...
0° Aries, Spring, where the neck of the beauty is...
Josef Mucha for "La Plume"...
Linked from:The Sabian Symbols Oracle
Sabian Symbols | The Sabian Oracle
--
Ich war jeweils nur im Frühling in Prag wenn die Sonne im Stier war
(erst aus den Umständen heraus, dann anscheinend aus "freiem Willen"?),
was ja vielleicht passen könnte, bzgl. "lebendiger Materie"...
Wenn auch... (aber siehe all das was ich da rum geschrieben hatte im astro.com forum oder auf meiner Website,
wo sich auch alle meine Posts bequem auf einer Seite fänden für mutige Percivals...).
Und doch, eben auch Stereotype ein Thema um Tschechien/Prag herum...
0° Widder, Frühling, wo der Hals der Schönen ist (und "Hals" wäre wiederum dem Stier zugeordnet):
Josef Mucha für "La Plume"...
Verlinkt von:The Sabian Symbols Oracle
Sabian Symbols | The Sabian Oracle
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
Suhsan said (Sat 29 Apr 2023 11:25:35 CEST):
What I personally have always found impossible is when the tool of "astrology" is weaponized
and then used in such a way AGAINST someone, be it as an attack, defense, revenge, or -
unfortunately, there is also - as a means of self-aggrandizement.
(Unfortunately, I have seen this also with people who work in psychological professions).
On the other hand, especially in astrology, how a person sees things is influenced by the birth chart of the person,
hence pointing that out could also be helpful to settle arguments, to relativize opinions
(make them at least somewhat relative to the own birth chart),
but is certainly not easy to draw a line between different usages...
Accordingly, not allowing this has already quite a history.
Here is an excerpt from the charter of the Usenet newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated
(don't remember the year, but I think was somewhen in the (late) 1990s), bold emphasis by me:
The following types of posts are not allowed:
[...]
7)
a) All personal attacks, abuse, and flames, including those based on
astrology. Claims of methodological, ideological, or systemical
sovereignty, or other forms of provocation, are also prohibited.
(Flaming is here defined as abuse, insults, harassment, and suggestive
slurs. Provocation is here defined as content primarily intended to
incite aggravation, indignation, or outrage. All of the preceding is
subject to the judgment of the moderators.)
b) Any comments pertaining to any chart placement of another poster in
the course of a discussion without receiving prior consent or
invitation to make such comments.
Charter for newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[Logos said:
Mir persönlich gefällts in der privaten Ecke, ich sähe da keinen Erkenntnisgewinn für die breite Öffentlichkeit.
Was die anderen denken…who knows…wenn Merkur vorwärts geht wird’s sicher neu diskutiert…]
Murmeltier said [in reply to Logos] (Fri 28 Apr 2023 15:55:20 CEST):
Ich auch nicht. Das ist ja noch nicht mal was Astrologisches ...
_______________________________________________________________
Mr. Mister "Broken Wings"
Teilweise eben ggf. schon... Aber ja... I see... Keinen Sinn sich aufzuregen hier, nicht im geringsten...
–––
Learn from your mistakes, so that one day you can repeat them precisely. (Æon Flux)
[I stopped posting as "xphi." at the time
(likely also related to Neptune on my Chiron and my Mars return in the early morning of 29 Apr 2023),
changed the email to a non-existing one and the password to one I did not know,
and did not resume posting until almost a year later with a new account "xphi...",
still with some delusional hope for maybe some helpful developments via more posting,
like some recognition of Sedna being crucial in current times,
but this did not really happen: Despite some apparently positive statements
Sedna did not (and does not) pop up independently of me pointing to her,
while this maybe simply mirrors Sedna times after mostly Pluto times in the 20th century…]
[... seems that I did post at least once in between, as ".xphi" in October 2023
but maybe not any more. The account has now guest status and in the post below
in the original it contains a note "Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2023".
So quite possibly I disagreed in some way(s) at the time and chose to leave immediately again?
Which might have been a wise decision back then…]
When Sedna entered Gemini, Thursday 15 June 2023 at 11:49:01 CEST (UTC+2),
I was talking a walk near the river Limmat in Zürich, actually at a place I had "discovered" only a few days earlier,
an area with small public gardens maintained by different groups from around there, and free to walk in and take a seat,
and also at some spots free to grab some berries or spices. I did usually take just a few red berries, Johannisbeeren,
which I guess would be "currant" or "ribe" in english.
Hm, now as I writing, thinking about it, I wonder if John the Baptist (24 June, "Johann" in "Johannisbeere")
would be related to Gemini besides that date in the year...
Maybe, I read on German Wikipedia that the archangel Gabriel—who apparently often is the messenger of god, similar to the ruler of Gemini,
Mercury/Hermes of Jupiter/Zeus—told the father of John to choose the name "John" as the first name of his son.
About a week later, I had essentially translated the core content of my website exactphilosophy.net from English to German,
which is about 90 pages printed as a pocket book.
That was only possible in such a short time due to technical progress,
more precisely using the recently released new version of deepl.com online.
I still touched pretty much every sentence after that automatic translation (with exception of maybe only roughly 5),
but it was very helpful that deepl got the structure of the sentences immediately right and many words.
Actually, in some cases deepl even surprised me with a word that I might not have found myself, or only after some research.
The English/German site went live 7 July 2023, i.e. about 3 weeks after Sedna entered Gemini.
Translations and writing, as well as splitting something into two (English to English+German),
are all things that would resonate well with Gemini,
and the sort of flowing and (in comparison to a few years ago) natural effortlessness of the translation would,
in my view, resonate also well with Sedna...
Not much later, I guess already before 7 July, I also had the idea of translating the site also to "easy",
create a version that would be much easier to read for people
who do not know all the things I know from various fields from "physics to astrology".
The idea was to create annotated versions (Englisch and German),
where I would usually quote a short paragraph from the original and then add some context, background, sources, and so on.
So far that is just the idea, but it would presumably also fit the mythology of Gemini.
Liz Greene in "The Astrology of Fate" mentions the myth of Leda and the swan (Zeus in disguise).
She [edit: Leda, not Liz Greene] laid two eggs, with two children in each, so a 2+2 symbolism, too.
One of the children was Helena (c.f. Illiad, Trojan War), one was Clytemnestra, and from the other egg Castor+Pollux.
I am not sure at the moment how it really was, but I remember that Liz Greene also saw a duality of mortal/immortal there,
with two mortal and two immortal? So maybe the current version of the site more "for the gods",
the easy version "for mortals", for "the rest of us"?
Maybe, but I am also still dreaming of writing up something from scratc
that is more like a movie or at least a movie script or a novel of a similar kind,
because only that would be able to become really mainstream, at least it seems.
Anyways, my site is not primarily about astrology, and the now translated core a bit less in comparison,
but it is very much about 4+1 elements from first principles
and could at least qualitatively derive or at least explain the 12 signs of the zodiac also from first principles...
English: https://www.exactphilosophy.net/
German: https://www.exactphilosophy.net/index-de.html
Ich glaube ich habe wohl ein Rätsel um Kafka gelöst -
auch wenn sich in Literatur und im Leben kaum je etwas exklusiv nur etwas anderem zuordnen lässt,
habe ich wohl doch etwas gefunden, das im Nachhinein offensichtlich als das fast sicher stärkste Motiv/Symbol scheint,
wenn auch nicht gesagt ob das seinerseits bewusst oder unbewusst war
(ich würde ihm allerdings durchaus insgeheim bewusst zutrauen)...
Konkret geht es um die zwei Männer, die K. bei "Der Process" abholen, oder auch die zwei Gehilfen in "Das Schloss"...
Klar, bei Kafka wäre die Dispositorenverkettung so, dass Merkur über alle anderen Planeten disponieren würde,
also zwei nicht unterschiedene männlich und/oder auch kindlich erscheinende Gestalten schon sowieso zu dem Thema passen würden,
oder auch zur Waage, wo wohl ein grosser Teil von Kafkas 3. Haus ("Schreiben") war...
Aber auch folgendes würde eben dazu passen:
Kafka war das älteste von 6 Kindern, nach ihm kamen zwei Brüder, die beide starben noch bevor Kafka 7 Jahre alt war,
die 3 Schwestern danach überlebten alle.
Daher ist es nicht erstaunlich, dass bei ihm wenn die Zeit zum Sterben wäre, die zwei Brüder wieder kämen,
ihn in das Reich zu holen, wo sie schon sind.
Daher auch in "Der Process" keine "normale" juristische Möglichkeit dem Urteil zu entgehen,
das Schicksal ist nun mal nicht von den Menschen nach ihren Regeln verhandelbar.
Indirekt hängen natürlich auch noch andere Dinge damit zusammen, wie dass der Vater so keinen Sohn bekam,
der in seinem praktischen Sinn seine Geschäfte weitergeführt hätte.
Und auch da die Familie als Kafka noch sehr jung war ganz oft umzog, machte dann wohl Prag als Stadt v.a. zu seinem Zuhause,
und von da her kamen dann wohl auch ein paar Eingebungen von Dingen
die sich erst Jahre oder Jahrzehnte später im grossen Stil in der Welt manifestieren würden...
Wie immer nur ein kleiner Ausschnitt der "Wahrheit", auch glaube ich seit ein paar Tagen,
dass Kafka oft von anderen Dichtern "stahl" indem er Themen von ihnen aufgriff
und sie unvergleichlich besser und schöner in Prosa umsetzte,
aber das vielleicht ein ander mal, oder auch gar nicht...
Die Geburtszeit von Kafka scheint wohl einigermassen zu stimmen.
Ich dachte mir erst noch weil ich Uranus nahe von seinem Uranus habe, dass es seltsam ist,
dass ich nicht so sehr auf Gesundheit achte beim Essen wie er damals, und andere Dinge,
aber bei mir ist Uranus im 3. Haus, bei ihm im 2. Haus ("Körper"),
also wäre das wohl schon am Ehesten so...
Und zu Kafka als "Hypochonder", am Ende hatte er ja recht, die zwei Brüder sehr früh gestorben
und er selbst eben doch schon auch recht jung (mit 41 Jahren).
Jedenfalls schreibe ich zu dem neu gefundenen vielleicht noch einen kleinen Artikel,
ausser natürlich ich fände noch heraus, dass jemand anderes schon dieselbe Idee publiziert hatte...
Übrigens, meine Registration hier als "xphi..." war am 19. März um 0:14, ev. schon ein Versehen um Merkur herum,
der ist ein paar Stunden später (04:02 MEZ) in die Schattenphase eingetreten.
Ich hatte nämlich vorgehabt diesmal am 19. März etwa um 20 Uhr mich zu registrieren,
damit wären die Häuser so gewesen wie bei der Registration meiner Website am 19. März 2001 (19:56.24 MEZ).
Nun hatte ich am Abend von 18. März noch einige Dinge gemacht,
und dann auf das Datum auf dem Computer geschaut und mir gedacht,
da ich da 19. März sah, dass ich den Moment verpasst hatte, und registrierte,
und merkte erst danach, dass es schon kurz nach Mitternacht gewesen war...
So vielleicht dem Thema etwas entgangen?
2024 Mercury Retrograde Calendar
Friendly reminder to maybe include Sedna into mundane astrological considerations
(not only, but as a major factor, in my hypothesis the strongest mundane factor in these times, but to be seen).
Attached is the Sedna Gemini ingress chart without houses (as far as "without houses" is possible at astro.com) of 27 April 2024;
Sedna will stay in Gemini for about 43 years...
(And see posts above for some considerations on the occasion of last year's already short visit of Sedna in Gemini
if you already forgot about them or came here later...)
The most prominent aspect that Sedna will make at the ingress (and already now makes) is the trine to Pluto in early Aquarius.
Plus somewhat of a sextile to Neptune+Mars in late Pisces
(Neptune will station at 29°56' Pisces a bit more than two months later at the beginning of July,
then a bit more closely sextile Sedna). And somewhat of an octile to Mercury/n.node...
I am turning my garden gloves inside out to let them dry...
Interestingly, turning them inside out turned the left glove into the right one, and vice-versa...
I would say Sedna's fingers stand also for the strongest way in which women could influence things in traditional patriarchal societies,
by having children and having more influence on their birth charts than men.
The detached fingers would thus also symbolize her children, parts of her own body that get detached and then live lives on their own,
still remaining in a way connected to the mother.
Apparently I will not touch on the Kafka-Prague-Sedna-Pluto-Hekate-Baba-Yaga-and-her-detached-helping-hands-etc. aspects of "Sedna" here today,
despite having privately written (and then deleted) several quite long tentative replies today
(including reiterating some parts of that complex which I had already mentioned in earlier posts elsewhere...*),
but for all that it appears they are not to be said, yet, at least not now, only maybe to be discovered,
feel free to do so ya all...*
(About negative aspects of Sedna, maybe first dropping nuclear power plants in many countries too quickly,
while not dropping nuclear weapons and not really pushing green energies all that much, with nuclear power
(the risk of accidents aside) being much more climate friendly than any fossile fuels,
and now towards Sedna in Gemini maybe reconsidering tamed nuclear power ("positive"?)...)
* exactphilosophy.net → artemis → noindex → odyssey → ... (and briefly on page 5
here)
Irgendwie fühlte ich mich verpflichtet das auch "offiziell" niederzuschreiben als Artikel auf meiner Website,
noch mit dem ganz langsamen Merkur (in etwa 2 Stunden rückläufig),
auch wenn die eher traurige oder gar tragische Natur davon sonst nicht so sehr zu mir und meiner Webseite passt
(ich habe die Mondknotenachse in umgekehrten Zeichen wie Kafka):
DE: https://www.exactphilosophy.net/kafkas-gehilfen.pdf
EN: https://www.exactphilosophy.net/kafkas-assistants.pdf
Ohne Astrologie dort, da ich das dort generell eher vermeide, auch wenn das natürlich fast immer hilfreich ist...
Merkur wäre übrigens im Moment sehr nahe vom nominellen MC von Kafka mit der ADB RR DD Zeit von 7 Uhr morgens, im 28. Grad Widder...
Franz Kafka, horoscope for birth date 3 July 1883, born in Prague, with Astrodata...
Russian nexus revealed during 60 Minutes Havana Syndrome investigation into p...
Attacks to the head (Aries) with sound (and/or electromagnetic?) waves,
i.e. in the case of sound also directly to the ears (language/communication - Mercury),
and in both cases to the brain (tinking - Mercury), generally had apparently been attacking the most "intelligent" (Mercury?) -
and as always with such revelations, why exaxtly revealing it now?
Earth quake in Taiwan (7.4). Not the first time around an eclipse,
and since days before the eclipse as far as I can see not explainable with contemporary physics
(unlike earth quakes at or after "supermoons").
xphi... said (Wed 3 Apr 2024 08:29:15 CEST):
Earth quake in Taiwan (7.4). Not the first time around an eclipse,
and since days before the eclipse as far as I can see not explainable with contemporary physics
(unlike earth quakes at or after "supermoons").
Ah, sorry, it can... The last new moon was with sun and esp. moon near Priapus (opposite Lilith),
hence with the moon near its closest proximity to earth
and thus at first sight larger gravitational forces than average when moon and sun pull on the same line.
(The sun was about sextile to its closest distance to the earth, which would be mid' Capricorn,
around 3 January, near the "diamond" / perhelion, so also from that the sun relatively close to its closest proximity to earth.)
PS: What this does not really explain, though, is that since about then
Facebook had been proposing astrologer Richard Nolle prominently as friend in the usual galery.
If you don't know, it was him (yes, an astrologer!) who coined the term "supermoon" around his earthquake research...
Richard Nolle | American astrologer | Britannica
Gerade eben (ca. 09:20 MESZ) wäre Uranus (wohl zum letzten Mal in meinem Leben) über meinen mittleren nördlichen Mondknoten gelaufen,
ich hatte erst eine Stunde zuvor geschaut wann genau das wäre, und war mir erst gestern Abend aufgefallen gewesen.
Jedenfalls hatte ich gleich vor einer Stunde dann auch begonnen den Artikel zu Kafka zu streamlinen.
Eigentlich bei mir grundsätzlich nichts ungewöhnliches, viel im Wasser, u.a.. Stellium im Krebs im 12. Haus,
das ganz viel produziert, mit Trigon zu Neptun und s.Mondknoten im Skorpion und Trigon zu Lilith und weniger stark zu Chiron und Saturn,
wobei letzterer recht genau im Trigon zu Merkur am Ende vom 12. Haus am AC ist,
also die Kombination die am Ende zu sehr stark kondensierten kleinen Dingen führt,
so ein Merkur-Saturn Trigon ist ja bei Physikern anscheinend recht verbreitet...
Das jedenfalls wäre der Text nun, könnte sein, dass der einfach genauso bleibt, umständehalber...
Kafkas Gehilfen
In Der Prozess wird K. von zwei Männern abgeholt und am Ende von zwei Männern getötet,
in Das Schloss bekommt er die zuvor vorgegebenen Gehilfen anscheinend stattdessen vom Schloss zugewiesen, ebenfalls zwei.
Franz Kafka war das älteste Kind, nach ihm kamen zwei Brüder zur Welt, die aber schon starben bevor er 7 Jahre alt war,
und er hatte noch drei nochmals jüngere Schwestern, die alle erwachsen wurden.
In seiner frühen Kindheit zogen die Kafkas mehrmals um, immer in der Altstadt von Prag.
Diese beiden Dinge führten wohl dazu, dass Franz Kafka als Zuhause primär das alte Prag hatte
und ihm sein möglicher Tod in der Kindheit in gewisser Weise allgegenwärtig gewesen wäre,
so dass wenn zwei Männer in seinen Romanen auftauchen, es ein Zeichen wäre,
dass seine zwei Brüder ihn abholen kämen zu sich ins Reich der Toten.
Daher auch in Der Prozess kein Prozess im menschlich-weltlichen Sinne, einfach Schicksal,
welches nicht explizit begründet, wieso es jemanden trifft und andere nicht,
und ganz ähnlich in Das Schloss.
Gestern waren übrigens auf 3Sat oder Arte Dokumentationen zu Schlössern/Burgen in Österreich,
und da fiel mir v.a. die Burg Clam auf, der Beamte, den K. in Das Schloss im Herrenhof
(gleicher Name wie der Herrenhof in Wien wo Ernst Pollak, der Mann von Milena Jesenska, anscheinend oft war,
und anscheinend informell "Hurenhof" genannt) treffen wollte um zum Schloss zu gelangen,
hiess Klamm (und es gibt auch eine wohl kleinere Burg Klamm).
Jedenfalls, die Burg Clam hat 5 historische Tore, der Reihe nach
die ein Eroberer zu durchdringen hätte der Reihe nach (da es auf der anderen Seite 100m senkrecht runter geht).
Auch interessant was der Schlossherr noch sagte, dazu, dass das Schloss auch Gerichtsbarkeit hatte,
anscheinend aber eher Verwaltungsdinge wie auch Grenzverläufe...
Der vorgegebene Landvermesser K. sollte ja anscheinend (laut Max Brod) angelehnt sein an Leute,
die Land vermessen gingen im 19. Jh. um dann Leute um Land zu stehlen, oder irgendwie so...
Soll alles nicht heissen, das wäre jetzt "die Lösung" was Kafka meinte in dem Buch,
aber ist recht wahrscheinlich, dass er so Dinge schon wusste von Burgen und Schlössern und so,
und es dann mit vielem anderen verwob...
We are all doomed...
Explosive 'devil comet' returns for 1st time in 71 years during April 8 eclipse, NAS...
A rare and massive comet with a devilish nickname is set to pass by Earth for the first time in 71 years
and may be visible during the highly anticipated April 8 total solar eclipse, according to NASA.
Officially named comet 12P/Pons-Brooks, the cryovolcanic comet is known as the "devil comet"
due to its formation of two "horns" made up of ice and gas and periodic explosions.
[...]
In the abrupt absence of sunlight during totality, NASA said skywatchers will have a view of the vast sky,
dark enough to observe stars, planets and perhaps 12P/Pons-Brooks as it travels through the solar system.
Apparently, if I understand correctly, the comet looks best close to the sun,
because its tail or "horns" are caused by the solar wind,
hence the solar eclipse seems to be quite a unique opportunity to get a good look at it from the surface of earth...
The comet will later come closer to earth, be closest in early June,
but then would look less interesting because already further away from the sun...
Oliver said (Sun 7 Apr 2024 20:01:03 CEST):
Last time I looked, we were all set to die one day. That hasn't changed.
Must be retrograde Mercury, I guess you wanted to write:
"Last time I looked, we were all set to die in one day. That hasn't changed."
Moonlight said (Sun 7 Apr 2024 21:27:49 CEST):
I almost beheaded a black viper today (with red eyes!)..
I was mountainbiking and there he was sliding in the direction of where I was heading.
Just managed to avoid riding over its head.
It titled its head and I was scared it would snap onto my ankle instead.
Gave a big scream 😅 and that was all I could do.
There wasn't al lot of room to avoid him, it was passing from a cm or riding into a tree.
I always see the animals I meet in the woods as signs or omens. But this was a scary one..
especialy those red eyes and it was totally black.. so close..
Glad we were able to both pass unharmed ..
The two lunar nodes were (or are in a way) seen as a dragon or snake,
or maybe more precisely what the ancient Greeks called a "dragon" would apparently originally not have had legs,
would have rather been something like a big snake...
Hm, Wikipedia even mentions the eyes in that context:
Dragon - Wikipedia
"The word dragon entered the English language in the early 13th century from Old French dragon,
which, in turn, comes from the Latin: draco (genitive draconis) meaning "huge serpent, dragon",
from Ancient Greek δράκων, drákōn (genitive δράκοντος, drákontos) "serpent".[4][5]
The Greek and Latin term referred to any great serpent, not necessarily mythological.[6]
The Greek word δράκων is most likely derived from the Greek verb δέρκομαι (dérkomai) meaning "I see",
the aoristform of which is ἔδρακον (édrakon).[5]
This is thought to have referred to something with a "deadly glance",[7]
or unusually bright[8] or "sharp"[9][10] eyes, or because a snake's eyes appear to be always open;
each eye actually sees through a big transparent scale in its eyelids, which are permanently shut.
The Greek word probably derives from an Indo-European base *derḱ-meaning "to see";
the Sanskrit root दृश् (dr̥ś-) also means "to see".[11]"
Moonlight said (Sun 7 Apr 2024 21:27:49 CEST):
I almost beheaded a black viper today (with red eyes!)..
I was mountainbiking and there he was sliding in the direction of where I was heading.
Just managed to avoid riding over its head.
It titled its head and I was scared it would snap onto my ankle instead.
Gave a big scream 😅 and that was all I could do.
There wasn't al lot of room to avoid him, it was passing from a cm or riding into a tree.
I always see the animals I meet in the woods as signs or omens. But this was a scary one..
especialy those red eyes and it was totally black.. so close..
Glad we were able to both pass unharmed ..
Another thought, also because the snake was crossing, which suggests a square:
Ceres is associated with snakes, and Ceres is now at about 17° Capricorn,
hence at a square to the sun and (less precisely) to the nodal axis.
Not sure about the colors. Black and red would be two of the three archaic colors white-red-black.
Aries would be head and via fire/vision certainly also related to eyes, and with red eyes also not so wrong for fire, I guess,
the separation of red into yellow-element-fire and red-element-air seems to be more recent (~early CE)
than "red" for any hue from yellow via orange to red and dark red.
Or, maybe more directly, the black body for the element earth (Capricorn, Ceres related to soil),
and the eyes - also since the n.node is the head of the snake/dragon - maybe the fire of Aries...?
But there are likely still older roots to that, say back to Egypt...
Moonlight said (Mon 8 Apr 2024 07:48:19 CEST):
Well, I've never seen a black viper before. Snakes yes.. but also always at peticular moment.
Last time was when I was walking in the woods with my mother,
describing someones behaviour as snake like and the moment I spoke those words, I stepped over a snake.
I just have something with animals, appearing at moments that just say something.
This one I haven't figured out yet. I can think of an explanation but I have to wait and see until after the eclipse.
The fact that we both crossed unharmed reassures me.
The sun god Ra, in the form of Great Cat, slays the snake Apep:
Might be red eyes...
Slaying the snake every knight was necessary for the sun to rise again next morning:
Apep - Wikipedia
By the way, apparently knights from the crusades misinterpreted Ra as a cat with donkey ears as a rabbit,
which lead to various depictions of "killer rabbits" in medieval books...
https://blogs.bl.uk/digitisedmanuscripts/2021/06/killer-rabbits.html
xphi... said (Mon 8 Apr 2024 08:47:12 CEST):
Slaying the snake every knight was necessary for the sun to rise again next morning:
Oliver said (Mon 8 Apr 2024 09:04:06 CEST):
That's exactly what I'm going to tell my next girlfriend.
Yes, that's exactly it, hardly veiled in Greek mythology...
Apollon slayed the snake on holy ground at Delphi, with Delphi meaning roughly "womb"
and the slit in the earth (goddess Gaia who had her oracle there until Apollon) is where the prophecies were made...
The snake is also in the glyph for Leo, with snakes having been a precursor of cats,
were kept in the house to catch mice (says Robert Graves)...
Or take Jason, who could only fetch the golden fleece from the oak tree (with its suggestive nuts)
after Ariadne managed to tame the snake/dragon that was guarding it with her chants...
By the way, Dürrenmatts short story "Das Sterben der Pythia" (The Dying of Pythia) is certainly fun and very interesting to read,
all new perspectives on Ödipus and more...
Moonlight said (Mon 8 Apr 2024 16:05:45 CEST):
Definitely feeling the eclipse energy right now. This one is intense and so powerfull. I feel it.
I had to go out into nature sitting bare feet to channel this without resistance.
My muscles are hurting if I don't surrender to it.
This is power to the people kind of energy
I can definitely feel it coming, and I am far away (Switzerland) from the path of totality...
Postponed 2 things of a rather administrative nature I would normally have done today...
Oliver said (Mon 8 Apr 2024 15:34:00 CEST):
If I had written the story, it would have been a horse chestnut tree, and not an oak.
Then again, horse chestnuts are also roasted and eaten!
Seems that at least before the classical Greeks, people in Greece would have eaten acorns in bad times with no other food around.
These scientists think an 'awe'-some eclipse could help unite Americans in troubl...
These scientists think an ‘awe’-some eclipse could help unite Americans in troubled times
To hear Herodotus tell it, a total solar eclipse in 585 BC ended a five-year war between ancient kingdoms in present-day Turkey.
Could another total eclipse on Monday bring an end to the partisan wars in America?
The idea may sound far-fetched — until you talk with Paul Piff. The UC Irvine professor of psychology and social behavior
has spent the better part of two decades researching what triggers us to set our personal needs aside and shift our focus to the greater good.
[...]
One of them, he and other scholars have found, is awe: the feeling you get when you contemplate something
that is so vast and so mysterious that it forces you to reevaluate your understanding of the world.
Astrologically, maybe because Moon and Sun unite, with the moon standing traditionally for "the people"?
But what about the previous total eclipse in the US, the one in 2017?
But, yes, a total solar eclipse is really unexectedly special to so many people.
Was also to me in 1999 when I drove up a few 100 km into southern Germany to see it despite not so ideal conditions...
Mindestens für Desktop (also nicht Handy oder Tablet oder so) gibt es ein Plugin (Extension) für Google's Chrome Browser,
das Übersetzung mit Deepl bietet, einfach z.B. im Chrome Browser nach "deepl chrome extension" googeln
und dann von Google's Seite dazu installieren...
Gratis und ohne Registrierung kann man dann Texte selektieren und in die gewünschte Sprache übersetzen.
(Mit der "Pro" Registrierung, die wohl was kostet, könnte man anscheinend ganze Webseiten live übersetzen,
also einfach in der anderen Sprache lesen.)
Soweit ich weiss, ist Deepl immer noch die allerbeste Übersetzungssoftware, die es heute gibt.
Ist eine deutsche Firma mit Sitz in Köln, der Gründer ist Jarosław Kutyłowski,
ich glaube ich fand mal irgendwie ein Geburtsdatum von ihm, aber in der Sekunde nicht...
Aber bei Interesse in der Richtung einfach nach ihm Googeln, hat z.B. Interviews online, ist recht interessant...
Hier noch ein Bild, wie es dann im Browser aussieht:
Oben rechts mit Icon der Extension gepinned, dort kann man Einstellungen machen, insb. die Zielsprache ändern,
und wenn man einen Text selektiert, erscheint rechts vom Text auch ein Icon, da drauf klicken,
dann erscheint der übersetzte Text.
Kann man natürlich auch in die andere Richtung brauchen, beim Schreiben, "you'll figure it out"...
You might remember that last year just after Sedna had entered Gemini for the first time for a while, I translated my website to German,
i.e. it split up into two languages, like twins...
I did the translation very quickly, first preliminary version will all pages translated in just one weekend,
and something like a week later or a few days more, it went live...
This would not have been possible without deepl.com.
Even though I touched almost every sententence deepl autotranslated, the base translation was usually already very good,
especially took care about the different order of subject and verb, etc., which I feel often is a lot of work if you do it manually...
Not far into the future, any website (or any other electronic publication) will be essentially available to read in your favorite language.
You could finally browse websites in Chinese, Arab, Tibetan, and probably even Latin and Greek or even older languages one day...
Reminds me of Sedna, sinking down and releasing things...
In that sense, websites, say, in Chinese are free to "leave their mother", swim to readers in other languages, and the same for all other languages...
Deepl is a German company, formed by Jarosław Kutyłowski, apparently a name of Polish origin.
As far as I know, Deepl is today still clearly the best translation software there is,
at least as far as publicly visible ones.
It is based on "large language models", the stuff that is called "AI" or used to be called "neural networks", etc.,
i.e. essentially the same stuff that is also driving ChatGPT and so on, which are also often just "language",
they generally just create sentences word by word from having learned from other sentences by humans,
see Stephen Wolfram's article about how this works, at least the beginning should be relatively generally understandable...
What Is ChatGPT Doing … and Why Does It Work?
Language/communication and Gemini...
And, of course, when language barriers disappear, also trade becomes easier, virtual and real-life traveling, etc.
In my (very limited) experience there seems to be some relation between Chiron and gardening.
I remember a thread in Usenet about 20 years ago roughly around that, immediately maybe more about "green" than gardening,
but there is of course a relation...
Someone there mentioned that green parties started in 1977, the year that Chiron was discovered, which seems to be true:
The first political party to use the name "Green" seems to have been the Lower Saxon
"Green List for Environmental Protection", founded on 1 September 1977.
Green party - Wikipedia
Chiron was discovered two months later, 1 November 1977:
Celestial: Chiron Discovery, horoscope for birth date 1 November 1977, born in P...
Maybe also because "Chiron" is related the Greek word for "hand" and when gardening you usually do a lot with your hands?
Seems that in places where people live very long, gardening is very often something people do every day,
and Chiron did live very long in mythology.
I guess also Chiron would be related to "nature", to sort of also structuring things into their natural nature
or however you want to call them. One my analogies is often a broken leg.
To heal it, you first have to straighten it back to its natural position, even though that is very painful,
but if you don't do it, you end of with a crippled leg that is not very useful any more, and maybe even still painful.
silviam said (Sat 13 Apr 2024 19:07:59 CEST):
Ahh that brings back memories, the good old alt.astrology.moderated usenet
I looked it up, turns out it was actually at alt.astrology.tropical (20 June 2004), thread titled "Mean Greens"...
Below the charts for the two groups, I posted to aam from 20 June 2002, at some point discovered aat
(and often loved it, often had the experience that I started a reply and while writing it,
I discovered a new turn, magically, thanks "Pete P" (in real life Patrick something, a British astrologer)
for probably the major influence of the birth chart of aat)...
aam was apparently founded as a moderated group because at alt.astrology (unmoderated)
things had gotten "too wild", aat, in turn, was apparently created because some members did not want sideral astrology in,
but that was before me, in any case founding a group just a week after 9/11 and making it something cool was quite a feat to me,
I guess one "trick" was to put Pluto into the 12th house, because no way to get rid of the Pluto-Saturn opposition at the time...
Source for the charts:
Fwd: Astro NewsGroups/Letters: FINAL Update
"alt.astrology.moderated" - born November 8, 1998 00:04 am CST Lisle,
Illinois, USA. (88W04 41N48) URL: http://readystump.algebra.com/~aam/
"alt.astrology.tropical" (moderated) born September 18, 2001, 14:12 CDT
Lisle, Illinois, USA. (88W05,41N47) URL: http://www.algebra.com/~aat
In the chart of aam maybe not astonishingly Chiron is at the IC, maybe aam born out of the wish to heal and be protected from attacks,
while for aat there is Eris at the IC, since there would have been some strife in the creation away from aam
(while there had been little strife from aam to aa, just most astrologers moving there)...
Note the IC/MC axis of aat, the axis of the recent solar eclipse that this thread is about, and at aat Chiron was at the AC...
And feeling so old writing this, and so futile, none of my findings found it into astrology, all ignored and forgotten by all...
In the end maybe not really my problem...
(By the way, this year in February, Google groups stopped archiving any new Usenet posts...)
Momo said [in reply to Vineta] (Sun 14 Apr 2024 08:16:17 CEST):
Ist Dein Radix- Mond in Konjunktion zur Achse
oder hat der Mond die gleiche ekliptikale Breite wie die Sonne?
Es ist selten ,das der Mond auch auf der ekliptischen Breite wie die Sonne ist.
Du kannst den Stand der ekliptischen Breite vom Radix Mond in der Graphik von astrocom
leicht überprüfen ,
die ekliptische Breite vom Mond wird in der PDF aufgeführt.
Ist doch relativ einfach, wenn der Mond bei Geburt nahe von einem Mondknoten war, dann war er auch nahe der Ekliptik,
die Mondknoten sind ja genau die Punkte wo die Mondbahn die Erdbahn bzw. scheinbare Sonnenbahn um die Erde, die Ekliptik schneidet,
daher auch da rum die Finsternisse.
Momo said (Mon 15 Apr 2024 08:10:21 CEST):
So simpel ist das nicht.
Der Mond bildet durch seinen Umlauf ca.alle 4 Wochen eine Konjunktion zu den Mondknoten.
Alle 2 Wochen, abwechselnd zum südlichen und zum nördlichen Mondknoten...
Hier hat es eine Tabelle auf AstroSeek (unterhalb der Tabelle kann man ein anderes Jahr aussuchen, oberhalb der Tabelle den Monat):
Latitude Ephemeris 2024, Free Astrology Latitude Planetary Online Ephemeris Tab...
Oliver said (Mon 15 Apr 2024 17:51:10 CEST):
I’ll be there this evening. Anyone in town wanting to meet up, just ping me and I’ll send you my phone / WhatsApp number.
Edit: Ehem, never mind. It seems they cancelled setting the guy on fire: Too much wind. That wouldn’t stop
me…
What cancelled??? Never happened in my life before...
The snowman had fallen down I think two times (in the 2010s(?)), but it was always put on fire...
What's the astrological take on that?
The snowman is winter, maybe because of Mars still in Pisces, not enough fire???
What is wind or a storm astrologically? Jupiter (as weather god)?
Here's a chart for the time they usually put fire to the stack of wood on which the snowman is standing...
Vesta at the MC, and still no fire?
Neptune at the DC, maybe Neptune causing a storm? Any further insights welcome...
Hm, with Vesta at the MC fire only under controlled conditions, no "wild fires"?
In the Usenet past there had been a poster who linked military with Libra (don't remember his name at this moment).
Makes quite a bit of sense to me, in a military you need structures (Saturn exalted in Libra)
and some cohesion (maybe Venus ruler of Libra helps),
as a counterpoint to Aries/Fire aggression in the opposite sign with Mars as ruler and Sun exalted,
which is maybe too wild and self-centered to be successful at war in the longer run.
With north node now in Aries, starting wars does often not go far (at a large scale, if it affects you locally, then it is different).
Hence both the invasion of Israel into Gaza and the recent attack of Iran did not carry that far overall.
Israel is related to Aries because their religion clearly has an Age of Aries symbolism
and started at least in mythology around the beginning of the Age of Aries.
And Iran is also already by name related to it and (unlike in Arab countries)
they have a solar calendar in which the year starts with the beginning of spring, early Aries.
The ship named "Aries" is then maybe just icing on that cake.
I think it is also therefore that currently the USA (which is exceedingly good at "military")
is reluctant with military actions, probably not from astrological considerations, but who knows...
Anyways, does not seem like any major war would start in the coming months,
and hopefully the US will still manage to turn things around in Ukraine with relatively little $$$s...
Besides the images, I also find the music interesting (more audible in the second half of the video).
Most likely also AI generated,
with what it appears so far maybe a mix of "Take Five" (Dave Brubek Quartett, 1959)
and "A Horse with no Name" (America, 1972) that blends nicely to me...
Oliver said (Thu 18 Apr 2024 10:00:05 CEST):
The West is going to lose against Russia, China and Iran.
Either that or their subversion is working very well...
xphi... said (Sat 20 Apr 2024 19:29:59 CEST):
Either that or their subversion is working very well...
Oliver said (Sat 20 Apr 2024 11:11:41 CEST):
If you'd seen the video, you'd know that it's worked astonishingly well. Beyond all expectations, in fact.
Let me give an example of subversion, and as maybe often there is no certain "solution" to how/why it was, is and will be...
On 16 Feb 2023, Samantha Bean started a thread titled "The 29th Degree: The Anaretic Degree" here:
The 29th Degree: The Anaretic Degree
Since then "anaretic degree" seems to have become very much a recurring theme in this forum,
actually even though (or because?) she got a few things wrong (or "wrong") in her opening post,
including the title, as the anaretic degree seems to be defined as the last degree of each sign, 29°-29.999...°
which is the 30th degree not the 29th.
And she quoted "Degrees of the Zodiac by Charubel and Sepharial: 29th of Taurus is typical:"
with "A powerful man holding a scourge in his right hand, driving two slaves in manacles.",
which seems to be the Sepharial (but not Charubel) description of the 29th (not the 30th, anaretic) degree of Taurus.
She mentioned Taurus specifically because "Ivy [Goldstein-Jacobson] calls it the place of the Weeping Sisters,
where there is something to Weep about partly because of the closeness of 29Tau to some nasty stars in that Cluster."
The weeping sisters would be the Pleiades in the constellation of Taurus,
which are currently in the first degree of Gemini and the last (the anaretic) degree of Taurus.
When the thread was opened, Sedna was still in the 29th degree Taurus
(but had been in the 30th before, esp. in December 2022), entered the 30th degree Taurus around 24 March 2023,
the first degree of Gemini around 16 June 2023, back to 30th degree Taurus around 23 November 2023,
and since then in the 30th degree Taurus, will enter Gemini for good 27 April 2024...
Coincidence? Who planned that?
(Samantha Bean, as far as I recall, did not really fit in, so left and/or was excluded.
At the end of her post it has a copyright notice that states 2002 as the year,
so the theme must have been going back some time elsewhere...)
Actually I did not plan to write about Sedna in this reply, but came up via late Taurus / early Gemini, so be it...
"What people usually forget about the unconscious is that it is unconscious."
There is a book by Jewish Rabbi Joel C. Dobin, which apparently first appeared in 1983
titled "The Astrological Secrets of the Hebrew Sages: To Rule Both Day and Night"
and was republished (with any changes?) in 1999 titled "Kabbalistic Astrology: The Sacred Tradition of the Hebrew Sages".
I once had it, but not now, so I can only quote some things from memory,
and I am not sure which parts are truly "canonical" in the sense of having a widespread tradition among Jews
who did and do astrology, but it certainly seems to draw on ancient "things".
He associates the "Jewish people" with the planet Saturn and in particular that when the outermost planet
(as known in antiquity) Saturn meets the next planet further in, Jupiter, that then the "word of god"
(or his verdicts/decisions) are handed down closer to earth, and I presume maybe further down when Jupiter meets Mars etc.,
but not sure about that part.
He places the beginning of the Age of Aries (edit: ) Aquarius in 1980 with the Saturn-Jupiter conjunction at 9.5° Libra,
the first one in an Air sign since quite a while before that
(and now for a while after the intermezzo back in Earth with 2000 in Taurus,
actually at 22°43 Taurus, quite close to where Jupiter and Uranus are now...)
New year 2020 has in its chain of dispositors Saturn disposing directly or indirectly
about all other major astrological planets (Sun, Moon, Mercury to Pluto).
This might suggest that "Jewish" in some forms might be a major theme in this decade.
And, yes, there seems to be something to that.
Selensky (and I guess also the prime minister of the Ukraine and maybe more folks in the government there?)
have Jewish roots (not sure how religious he / they are), and of course now there is Israel.
I am not very familiar with where Israel stands relative to the Ukraine,
but I guess not "fully embedded in the West" in that sense?
But I am not really doing this kind of "daily business" any more, and never was very good at it,
I am better at more fundamental things and longer time scales, at least in my preception...
Richard Nolle's list of Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions 600 BCE to 2400 CE:
Astrologer Richard Nolle's 3000-Year Jupiter-Saturn Conjunction Table
Joel C. Dobin's book (new edition 1999) at Amazon:
https://www.amazon.de/Kabbalistic-Astrology-Sacred-Tradition-Hebrew/dp/0892817631
wanda said (Sat 20 Apr 2024 21:02:00 CEST):
the Jewish Religion, the Christian Religion, and the Islam Religion are all ruled by Saturn.
🕎✝️🕋
As far as I know, traditionally religion is Jupiter, the traditional ruler of Sagittarius and Pisces, but I am not really an expert.
C. G. Jung in "Aion" (quote translated to english by me): "According to medieval tradition,
the religion of the Jews would have its origin in the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn,
Islam in Jupiter conjunct Venus, Christianity in Jupiter conjunct Mercury,
and the Antichrist in Jupiter conjunct Moon."
(Note that there is always Jupiter involved and that Hitler
or also George W. Bush and Al Gore, have/had Jupiter conjunct Moon.)
Jung provides some sources in the footnotes that, however, only partially match what he wrote in the main text.
Extract attached below, is from book pages 76+77 of an English edition of "Aion" I found at the Internet Archive here:
https://ia800606.us.archive.org/11/items/collectedworksof92cgju/collectedworksof92cgju.pdf
And again the archetypal triple colors white-red-black in the list of "Al-Biruni,G. Bonatti...." you posted...
If anybody wants to know about African (incl. Egyptian) influences on at least Jewish and Christian religions,
I can highly recommend the following source, quoting from my website:
See this absolutely stunning article by the Ethiopian “Shakespeare”, Tsegaye Gabre-Medhin:
The Origin of the Trinity in Art & Religion: Ethiopian Roots in the Egypto-Greek & Hebrew,
on page 99-120 of African Origins of the Major World Religions,
ed. Amon Saba Saakana, Karnak House, 1988.
KaBaRa to Kabbalah and Kaaba, Egypt as Kamit (black land), sacred tree, Osiris to Moses and others, and so much more.
I guess Fela’s song Shakara might fit in, too.
@wanda At Mecca at the Kaaba there is the "black stone" in some kind of silver "vagina" that visitors kiss,
suggesting almost unveiled older roots around a "Venus" "triple" goddess Isis/Inanna...
Black Stone - Wikipedia
To me Anti-Christ would be primarily the end of the Age of Pisces (Christian religion started around the beginning of the Age of Pisces),
in other words that would naturally also include religion becoming less important, also in political matters.
If you take religion away, there would seem to be a good "business" opportunity in the Middle East.
There are some very rich (mostly muslim) countries thanks to oil (and in the future maybe fields of solar collectors in the desert)
plus more and more other ventures, and Israel which is technologically very advanced, state-of-the-art in many ways.
Together this could make the Middle East a pretty strong player in the world, at least one
that would finally become fairly independent of influences from other parts of the world.
With the Age of Pisces gradually ending, Aquarian themes would become more important,
things like human rights, equal opportunities to all, and so on, and also ideologies,
I would have also related communism to at least some aspects of Aquarius (all the same, collective before individual).
In that light, maybe there is an opportunity for people in the Middle East -
after religious fundamentalism not having been very successful to change all that much -
to stop literally killing each other and maybe just argue with words.
Plus at the moment with Pluto in Aquarius and the last Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in early Aquarius
more Aquarian approaches like that countries in the Middle East would start to collaborate more.
With Pluto in Leo, colonies managed to break free (if often only formally and then effectively subverted into all kinds of dependencies).
Conversely, with Pluto in Aquarius, it might be more difficult than on average for smaller countries
to evade pressure from larger countries or compounds of countries, would be often favorable to collaborate in a group.
And in the case of Israel/Palestine, maybe collective forces in that region would even be willing to sacrifice a Palestinian state,
instead Israel from the river to the sea. Not an ideal scenario, of course,
also considering how (often unnecessarily) heartlessly Israel operates in Gaza,
but at least pressure from the US seems to have had some effect -
this is also part of an Aquarian theme in my view, to protect civilians,
more so than in past centuries and even in the 20th one or early 21st in Iraq.
If there is something to the idea of Sedna being important, her entry into Gemini might at least open opportunities
to smaller countries to have more choice, ideally on a case by case basis decide rather to do business
with "The West" or a "Russia-China-Iran" triplicity, less ideally being forced to choose one side "for good".
Overall, personally I am not so sure if Russia-China-Iran can really get very far and sort of become a major counterweight to "The West",
militarily they are currently still not that strong,
with US doctrine still mandating to be able to wage war against the two(!) largest opponents at the same time,
and with Japan having very likely become number 3 after the US and China.
And then there is also India, it is not a coincidence that the current vice president, Kamala Harris, of the US has Indian roots,
this is also to keep democratic India from rather taking sides with "Russia-China-Iran".
But I cannot really argue *astrologicall* for my views in this paragraph, so was reluctant until today to comment on that.
Similarly and in accordance with the above paragraph, a lot in global politics seems to be merely domestic US politics these days,
with the US deciding what happens in the Ukraine and with a Russia
that appears to be very much intertwined with MAGA/Trump republicans in the US,
which takes again some weight from Russia as opponent to the US.
As always, there would have been at least 10x more things on my mind to write about...
(still things on my mind e.g. in reply to Oliver regarding "subversion" and more, and to Etherea regarding her reply in the Sedna thread,
but both not things I could easily find relatively short replies or even longer replies maybe opening further "cans of worms",
but possibly later, also when maybe I would have more leisure, the past few days were rather an exception...)
@wanda Regarding to look for politicians with Jupiter-Moon conjunctions, besides the ones I had mentioned,
I think it should be mentioned that a Jupiter-Moon conjunction is not a rare thing, occurs every month,
and despite being "anti" to Christ by name that such a person would not be "anti" to the future in my interpretation,
at least not on a larger scale...
So, generally (as opposed to individually based on their actions) "demonizing" people with that constellation
would not seem fair to me, and I guess the constellation is not easy for them to handle.
Plus, is not sure what exactly the source for that association would be since Jung did apparently not provide a direct source.
Maybe I was the only one not aware of correlations of Saturn-Neptune conjunctions
and events in Russia despite more than 20 years of astrology?
Here's the graphic from an article titled "Russia in Chaos" at AstroWOW by Adrian Duncan dated 18 May 2023,
which Gehal had posted in the Israel thread:
Russia in Chaos | Astrological Updates and Articles by Adrian Duncan
I checked the dates, there were really Saturn-Neptune conjunctions in those years
plus also in 1846 when Neptune was consciously discovered in the sky...
Whether Putin was actually born in 1953 at the time with RR DD astro.com is not certain,
might even be veiled propaganda, but many events in the past seem to fit very well, much better than they usually do...
Vladimir Putin, horoscope for birth date 7 October 1952, born in St.Petersburg, wi...
So I looked at some earlier events and there seemed to be some correlations,
not sure if as blatant as for the dates above (did not look very deep into them),
and then I tried to go to the beginning, to the "Kievian Rus" (naming of a later date),
the origin of the "Russian empire":
According to the Primary Chronicle, the first ruler to unite East Slavic lands
into what would become Kievan Rus' was Oleg the Wise (r. 879–912).
Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia
Now, a year before the start of his reign, in 878, there was a Saturn-Neptune conjunction, chart below...
Venus is very closely conjunct that Saturn-Neptune conjunction... And - like today! - there is a Jupiter-Uranus conjunction
(actually at a trine to the one of today)...
Actually I wanted to sort of let astrology rest regarding such things with any relation to current events,
but seems the fates wanted me around at least one more time...?
Gives the upcoming 2025 (or 2026?) Saturn-Neptune conjunction and why maybe Russia wanting to "return home to Kiev" a different note,
a bit scary even so far of what might happen in 2025 (2026?), at least before some analysis...
(Note that the two conjunctions of 878 and 2025 would be conjunct to each other, although not in the same signs.)
The Aquarius MC of the conjunction does not really surprise me,
fits such a huge country and the Soviet Union was definitely multi-cultural with in some way a certain equality between people.
To have Chiron at the MC is maybe a bit more astonishing, at least at first sight, but I am sure there is more in this chart...
Hm, "subversion" as a topic, how did here this come in, and why, why now?
The conjunctions are definitely not made up, and seems most likely
that it would be mainly an unconscious collective intention to make them known at least among some astrologers?
I doubt conscious intentions in that specific case...
Table of Saturn-Neptune conjunctions over centuries at Richard Nolle's astropro website
(caution: times seem not as precise as when calculated at astro.com):
Astrologer Richard Nolle's 3000-Year Saturn-Neptune Conjunction Table
Oliver said (Sun 21 Apr 2024 11:42:15 CEST):
I propose two additions to the forum rules:
• Threats of any kind against the staff here will result in immediate deletion of the offending account, without further notice.
• Psychological manipulation used on other members of the forum (including frame, gaslighting, etc.) will result in one warning, then account deletion.
Comments, as always, are welcome.
Sounds viable to me. Up to moderators/staff, but maybe ideally have at least two pairs of eyes of staff members
privately looking at the situation before acting, just to make sure?
And, just in case, if you would write like at Sechseläuten "Anyone in town wanting to meet up, just ping me"
and I would then maybe reply with something like "I will come by",
that would not be intended as a threat to a member of the staff...
A maybe important detail I discovered by looking at the Sat-Nep conjunctions of 1917 (1), 1952/53 (3), 1989 (3), and 2026...
In 878 the conjunction was in the 11th house (27°16' Pisces)
as well as in 1917 (4°45' Leo),
the last of 3 in 1952/53 (21°38' Libra),
and the last of 3 in 1989 (10°21' Capricorn),
but the one in 2026 will be in the 7th house (0°45' Aries).
All cast for Kiev (apparently houses in St. Petersburg would be quite similar,
at least was the case with one chart where I tried to change the place).
Could mean that something important would change in Russia in 2026, in which way ever,
and might be interesting to look at other Sat-Nep conjunctions in the history of Russia,
in which house it usually was...
(Stalin died 5 March 1953, between the first and the second conjunction of 1952/53,
the first one had Sat-Nep in the 6th house.)
Attaching the charts, if they fit all in... apparently yes
Penguin Trauma said (Wed 24 Apr 2024 10:40:21 CEST):
The full ingress of Neptune Aries in Jan 2026, will make a sextile to Mars, Pluto, Sun and by extension,
Mercury and Venus, all in Aquarius! That's five planets in an Air sign.
10 days after that will be the last of 3 Saturn returns of the second cycle for me,
with additionally the Moon in an Air sign, in Libra, forming a "dragon" aspect figure with Neptune/Saturn as the head.
And that for me who has zero of the "20th century planets" in an Air sign.
Will see, maybe my shield of invisibility will magically disappear then, or maybe more likely nothing will change...
etherea said (Thu 25 Apr 2024 11:55:12 CEST):
Yesterday, we had Big Ben chiming 11 times at 9 O'clock, and
five horses spooked by loud noises (builders' rubble dropped right next to them) un-seated their riders and,
with copious amounts of teeming blood down the front of the white one, videoed running amok over roads, etc.,
right the way from Hyde Park-ish to Fleet Street, charging into taxis and buses along the way
(all five not doing that well, according to military vets attending to them after their capture).
There is all the chat about Kate, Louis, etc. as well.
A very un-settled feeling and we can see from the 1066 chart that Neptune is currently transiting natal Moon in 12h,
whilst the recent Jupiter/Uranus (ruler 12h cusp) conjunction in Taurus was also conjunct natal Neptune.
In Greek mythology horse races were said to have been invented by the sea god Poseidon ("Neptune")...
(Leonardo da Vinci had Neptune at the MC, https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Da_Vinci,_Leonardo )
Oliver said (Thu 25 Apr 2024 15:26:23 CEST):
Yet, also, he [Leonardo da Vinci] has Saturn in his 10H, which makes perfect sense:
His works have certainly endured, and have become well-known for centuries.
Makes me wonder. In 2025 I will have 3 Saturn returns.
The first of them (25 May 2025) would have Neptune and Saturn in the 10th house, the second one (23 Sep 2025) would have both at the IC,
the 3rd (5 Feb 2026) both in the 9th (Saturn in the 9th like at birth)...
So, maybe I should plan to take time off between 25 May and 23 Sep 2025 and maybe try to write or otherwise do something
that would be both visionary and enduring? Or already be ready to publish something then?
Difficult to plan such things, when the muses kiss you, things are just rolling, otherwise, you it can be like wading in a swamp...
Been more like the latter regarding at least books the last 5 years or so... But maybe just wait.....
Maybe also appropriate with Saturn very late in Pisces...
"Es ist nicht notwendig, daß du aus dem Hause gehst. Bleib bei deinem Tisch und horche.
Horche nicht einmal, warte nur. Warte nicht einmal, sei völlig still und allein.
Anbieten wird sich dir die Welt zur Entlarvung, sie kann nicht anders,
verzückt wird sie sich vor dir winden." - Kafka, Zürau Aphorisms...
"It is not necessary that you leave your house/home. Stay at your table and listen.
Do not even listen, just wait. Do not even wait, be completely silent and alone.
The world will offer herself to you, she cannot resist, enchantedly
he will curl/wriggle in front of you."
I actually have no idea where England or GB will be going the next few years... Horses...
The Unicorn and the Lion, the axis Aquarius-Leo I guess... No clue...
(Maybe repost?)
[More than that, was the opening post of the music thread in both "incubator" and "official" forum,
which is maybe fitting for the finally "British / Commonwealth" character of the forum.]
The Be Good Tanyas - Horses
One comment says "Anybody who has been on a horse at a fast, gentle canter gets this song."
Never been on a horse myself, as far as I remember, cannot tell...
etherea said (Thu 25 Apr 2024 11:55:12 CEST):
Yesterday, we had Big Ben chiming 11 times at 9 O'clock, and
five horses spooked by loud noises (builders' rubble dropped right next to them) un-seated their riders and,
with copious amounts of teeming blood down the front of the white one, videoed running amok over roads, etc.,
right the way from Hyde Park-ish to Fleet Street, charging into taxis and buses along the way
(all five not doing that well, according to military vets attending to them after their capture).
Here's what the poster of a youtube video said about Big Ben:
Right place right time. Got to witness a rare sight. The clock on the Elizabeth tower had stopped at 9am.
They remained still for around 50 minutes before Big Ben struck 10 without Westminster chimes.
The hands were advanced to 10 where Big Ben struck 11 and was then reset to 10:08am which was back in time.
But horses were earlier, according to the BBC:
The London Ambulance Service has just released a statement:
“We were called at 8:25am today (April 24)
to reports of a person being thrown from a horse on Buckingham Palace Road, SW1W.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-england-london-68888725/page/3
Here's a chart for 8:20:
To me also with my astrological fate most striking is the 3 archetypal colors, white-red-black,
an ancient "moon" triplicity for all that it appears...
And the three "moon asteroids" Artemis, Hekate, Diana near the IC, but so far not clear picture,
esp. know knowledge of chart of/around England/GB...
Horses: 12t house via large animals, Aquarius via constellation Pegasus near Aquarius,
Neptune via mythology and via Crete and Creatan Bull,
Poseidon also strongly related to Age of Taurus and white-red-black also there,
in Egypt the running of the Pharaoh at early spring (early Taurus sun)
with the Apis bull in those colors white-red-black and the red baboon,
Chiron/Sagittarius with at least half horses
(the ones on the run were military ones, lost their "heads", their riders),
via rulership of Sagittarius also Jupiter,
and Uranus via Aquarius, and 11th house via Aquarius, MC Aquarius,
lots in the 11th house, and AC in Gemini,
the French company Hermès (Hermes rules Gemini and Virgo)
originally made leather stuff for horses, and there is certainly more...
Hermès - Wikipedia
Sad image of the white horse at the run covered with blood
There was also full moon with the moon in Scorpio, when the sun is there in autumn lots of slaughtering, bloody sausages, ...
That's about what I can contribute at the moment without diving in...
Ah, one more thing, I had the impression that with the solar eclipse some energy
that was previous bound up, maybe Libra (s.node) with Saturn exalted ("5 o'clock tea") disrupting also the military,
setting free some radically free energy in Aries (n. node),
i.e. flowing through the "tube" of the nodal axis, dropping some Libra to the past and renewing Aries, something like that maybe...
Oliver said (Thu 25 Apr 2024 21:20:46 CEST):
Doesn’t sound like a bad idea! Though from what I’ve read about triple returns
(I’m in phase 2 of a triple Juno return right now, for example),
the first phase is like a test, the second phase is a review - and third phase is the return proper.
So if you have any editing or content suggestions to take on board, probably the second phase would be ideal for that.
Be still, my beating heart!
(Not sure about the history this thread, I guess was maybe forked from the London one
and seems rather not much about mundane astrology, at least not immediately, so replying in that sense...)
What I know and seems to work quite usually is that a return has an effect on the time span until the next return.
But would immediately appear to make sense that the retrograde period could be more about "review".
At the beginning of spring 2017 I started to write a book about astrology in German
(*Elementare Sternzeichen" - "Elementary Star Signs", actually quite a bad choice, a better description would be
"The 12 Signs of the Western Tropical Zodiac described as Transformations between the Four Classical Elements Fire, Air, Water and Earth -
And no, this not a beginner's book (at least not only) and it is not only about "Sun Sign Astrology").
A bit later (30 March) was the first of 3 Chiron returns of my first return cycle, in the second house.
I wrote the book during spring and a bit into early summer maybe,
and then did not change anything to it any more except tiniest changes (like typos).
The second return was 11 Oct, in the 8th house, I did not do much special that I would remember now.
In late January 2018, close to the 3rd return of 28 Jan, in the 12th house, I published the book.
It sold about 50 copies so far (I guess one last year, none this year),
in March 2018 I very quickly translated it to English and published it,
it sold about 23 copies, all despite some ads in astrological journals and about 6 reviews,
of which two quite sophisticated and favorable ones
(one in English by Victor Olliver in the (British) Astrological Journal,
one by Jutta Stemmer in (German) Meridian).
My hope with Saturn in 10 would have been to have at least maybe some kind of echo in the far future
from that even though I might never know...
Leonardo da Vinci was not nearly as famous in his time as he is now,
I guess was seen as some great artist who could do great art
(paintings or also that infamous statue with horses that no longer exists)
and organize fancy festivities with lots of "special effects",
but also a strange (gay?) guy with strange drawings about military "machines" and even flying ones, and so on,
nobody could take such things "seriously" in those times...
"Be still, my beating heart!" reminds me of Samuel Beckett's "Murphy"
where there is at the beginning an (Indian?) guru or sage who could stop his heart for a minute or so...
Beckett I think had the s.node in Aquarius("machines") and the n.node in Leo("heart"),
weird thing the literal heart, stands astrologically rather not for a stereotypical machine that just repeately pumps blood...
Almost the opening scene of the movie "Atomic Blonde" (after the comics "Coldest City" (Berlin))...
"... putting out fire with gasoline ..." (David Bowie, "Cat People")
PS: I did watch the 80s movie "Cat People" when it came out back then, with some guys from the same class in school in Zürich,
at the initiative of a guy with apparently some "Russian" descent by name and also I guess some link to England
and maybe also some "Jewish" background, not sure; his mother was writing movie reviews for local newspapers at the time,
and was divorced or separated the father, which was rather an exception in those days at least in the class I was in.
He did not get old, not much older than 20, don't know under which circumstances, but was apparently not a physical accident or disease.
Today at 11:35 AM UTC (12:35 PM BST in GB, 13:35 CEST in most parts of Europe, 7:35 AM EDT on the US East Coast,
4:35 AM PDT on the US West Coast) Sedna will enter Gemini and stay there for about 43 years...
Here's the chart for the ingress again (with houses completely removed this time)...
)o+
Maybe first the "physical plane"...
Yesterday when Sedna moved into Gemini I was at the ("new") botanical garden in Zürich (Seefeld), the one with the 3 tranparent tropical domes.
Welcome! | Botanical Garden | UZH
They have something new there, maybe since spring, was my first visit this year.
What is new is relatively large tables with photos of plants and some text,
at least in the Mediterranean section where I was they were from Greek islands, i.e. in way all near the sea...
The first photo (13:09:12 CEST) I took was of a strange "flower" that is only near the sea, the "prickly-branched knapweed",
which does remind of "Sedna" with its roundness that reminds maybe more of something under than over water.
The second photo (13:11:12 CEST) was of the scenery, and I took almost the same -
without realizing that there had just been nominally the ingress at 13:34:14
at least according to Swiss Ephemeris (which might not be accurate to the second in this particular case) - at 13:34:36...
20240427_133436-4x-smaller.jpg
The second of those two has different lightning, maybe to actually different light
or maybe just due to the rather low quality phone camera I had with me,
in my view the second image has less "May/Taurus" and more "June/Gemini" in the apparent light,
and only in the second image is a table with text visible...
Before going to the botanical garden, I had been at the Orell Füssli bookstore near Bellevue and bought 3 books,
in retrospect astonishingly all three in different languages:
- The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
- Kafka von Tag zu Tag (Kafka day by day) by Rainer Stach
- Poussière blonde (Blonde Dust) by Tatiana de Rosnay
In the evening I was almost mesmerized that one channel would actually show a movie
that would sort of be categorized as (close to) "really good" in my personal book, "Rashomon" by Akira Kurosawa of 1950,
and I actually watched it, with original sound and subtitles (in French, was on France 4, part of "culture box"),
the opening scene as often in his movies has tons of rain...
And late in the evening I started to read in The Great Gatsby...
Let me maybe start there - gradually - with the more "metaphysical plane" or maybe just more "abstract plane" first, rather Air than Earth...
I had never been interested in that book before, but saw it between lots of classics outside of the shop,
where most were translated to German, except this one and just one other, and also because the book was quite thin,
sort of traditional pocket book size, and written with Uranus in early Aries, I was interested enough to buy it.
It starts like this:
In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.
"Whenever you feel like criticizing any one," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had."
Which rings maybe with a "divide between populations" that etherea mentioned.
Maybe about 10 years ago someone (don't remember who) noted that the world in the 1970s had been much more egalitarian than in the 1920s,
where rich people had lived in their secluded mansions, and that since 1980s that had been shifting again, so maybe, just maybe,
could we again be at a pivotal point where that "pendulum" might finally swing the other way again, maybe even without an actual bloody revolution?
Gemini is also about diplomacy and protocol, so maybe less bloody times even?
I noticed yesterday evening that the Wall Street Journal had published some intelligence info,
namely that they had no indications that Putin would have directly ordered to kill Navalny
https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/alexei-navalny-death-us-intelligence-71bc95b0?mod=hp_lead_pos2
There is says (and already said yesterday) "Updated April 27, 2024 at 12:02 am ET", i.e. with Sedna already in Gemini then.
Well, maybe that would even be true. When Navalny died, I noticed that asteroid 100 Hekate was near his moon
at the rescently so often encountered spot of early Virgo (in many Russian personalities, also Biden's nodes, etc.)
where fixed star Regulus is since a few years. That might sugest rather a death by the Fates rather that a conscious human decision.
At the same time, since it looked very much like Putin had ordered it, I though to myself that he had overstepped his boundaries,
that it was not up to him to decide whether Navalny should die or not, also because Navalny had survived a "judgement of god".
But maybe it was really not him, maybe some other group who had in some ways an interest to have Navalny go
or maybe conversely the exchange with the "Tiergarten murderer" not taking place?
[Edit: I forgot a detail: My thought then was that Putin would die within the next two years, not via a coup or even revolution,
just "by the Fates", and that was before being aware of the Saturn-Neptune cycle and Russia, where the next one is in 2026,
quite close to 2 years after my thought...]
Gemini is also prominent in the charts of the NSA and Snowden, with Sun/Moon in Scoprio/Gemini switched between the two...
"Intelligence" also rings with Gemini, as well as keeping information separate.
The second book that list just events for every day in the life of Kafka I bought because that might be very useful in terms of astrology,
esp. since his time of birth is not really known...
It lists especially also when he started to write "Das Schloss" (The Castle), 27 January 1922 in the evening,
hence (since people used to eat quite late in these times) maybe at 11 or even later...
And he dumped the first approach the next evening, and I had also see a different beginning (maybe that one) that was not as medieval,
where there was a hotel with automatically opening glass doors.
Maybe astrologically: Kafka had Pluto in the first degree of Gemini (and Saturn just a few degrees ahead),
so Kafka would certainly be something to come and have somewhat in focus these times...
The third book I just bought by looking at the cover, Marilyn Monroe in gold, had never heard of the author before...
Some astrological data:
F. Scott Fitzgerald, horoscope for birth date 24 September 1896, born in St.Paul, ...
RR AA "3:30 PM" "baby book page" "welcome little stranger"
Sun 2°18' Gemini, AC 3°57' Aquarius
Zelda Fitzgerald, horoscope for birth date 24 July 1900, born in Montgomery, with...
RR B "05:40 AM" "biography" "rectified by Oliver to 5:33 AM"
DC 9°44' Aquarius, 11th house 7°5' Gemini - both earlier if born earlier
Franz Kafka, horoscope for birth date 3 July 1883, born in Prague, with Astrodata...
RR DD "7:00 AM" ... ... ... ... ...
Pluto 0°38' Gemini, Saturn 4°54' Gemini, DC "14°16' Aquarius"
Reiner Stach - Wikipedia
"born 1951", not even a date..
Until 7 March and from 13 August, Saturn was in Libra, mostly early Libra
Tatiana de Rosnay, horoscope for birth date 28 September 1961, born in Neuilly s...
RR AA "11:45", but source in detail not so clear to me...
Su 5°03' Libra, Moon 27°53' Taurus, DC 28°22' Taurus (or maybe early Gemini?)
Marilyn Monroe, horoscope for birth date 1 June 1926, born in Los Angeles, with ...
RR AA "9:30 AM" "B.C. in hand"
Mercury 6.x° Gemini, Sun 10.x° Gemini
Akira Kurosawa, horoscope for birth date 23 March 1910, born in Tokyo, with Astr...
RR C "9:00 PM"
n.node 1°26' Gemini, Mars 5°39' Gemini
In the movie "Rashomon" many people seem to view it as a story where it is not clear what is real, just different opinions,
also my parents (or at least my father) had perceived it that way, maybe also due to their Neptune in Virgo.
Anyways, as I already noticed some years ago when first watching it, the movie has a simpler morale or background.
The three immediately involved, the woman, the samurai and the thief just portray things
such that they look more heroic and "morally upright", while the woodcutter first lies because he stole the dagger of the woman,
but his later description of what happened, including a surreal sword fight where they did everything wrong one could ever imagine,
shows clearly to me that what the woodcutter said would be how it was except that he did not mention that he stole the dagger.
There would be so much more, but maybe something also quite clear to me but to nobody else, regarding that quote by Jung that etherea mentioned:
"freedom of will is the ability to do gladly that which I must do...... I lived into the depths, and the depths began to speak"
How this literally most likely works is as follows:
Just like individual cells in a human (or animal or plant) body form a larger being,
and are not aware of much of the complex things that go on in that compound,
also individual humans (and animals and plants) are part of larger organisms with less immediately visible ties,
which are mostly unconscious to people, mostly manifest in feelings, in drives what to do,
in order to fulfill collective dreams, plans, moods, etc.
Such beings composed of groups of people used to be called "Gods" or "Goddesses" or more philosophically the "World Soul" ("anima mundi"),
and other names, and Jung more precisely named them the "collective unconscious".
This is - for all that it appears to me as a physicist - simply how it is, and it is also how astrology works at its core:
It would not be the "stars" (actual objects in the sky) that influence our lives,
it would (at least to first order) be our common and mostly unconscious beliefs about them
plus what is favorable in a darwinistic sense,
(e.g. to sort things in late summer when the harvest comes in, even though siderally the sun is then no longer in Virgo due to precession).
Anybody has been reading until here? I am sort of the "box office poison" of promoting anything new.....
[At the time, etherea replied "yes, and following your train of thought "
but this turned out later to have been just one more illusion on my side.
Almost certainly regarding "How this literally most likely works".
But also the reaction overall was more like
"Sedna as additional interesting object/approach among many"
than "the most important object in current times".
My blind hope was the reason for so many posts after that,
until I realized how futile that was. Still/again.
Also at this forum.
Even though arguably maybe at times a tiny little bit successful
of some sort, but also that apparently futile, not picked up by anyone,
at least not visibly in the forum, whenever I stopped mentioning Sedna…
But maybe that would be the core of Sedna, that she would unlike Uranus,
Neptune, Pluto, etc., not be something collectively conscious in her time?
That she would remain invisible below the surface? Could well be…]
etherea said (Sun 28 Apr 2024 10:37:58 CEST):
In other "wierdness news", as I went through a Mainline Terminus station over the last couple of days,
I also saw several people dressed up as bananas, carrying luggage trolleys, scurrying along -
I am completely out of questions or answers on that one
unless it's also about Jupiter having his jovial side coming through.
I found this from 22 January:
Review: Richmond Row goes bananas
Jan. 18 was London’s turn at the new phenomenon taking Canadian universities by storm:
the Banana Bar Crawl, with nearly 2,400 people taking part, according to the event organizers.
The concept is simple: people dress up in banana costumes and go to different bars in university towns.
Does not explain the trolleys, though... Maybe all going on holidays?
Seems that in the renaissance the two horses on the chariot tarot card were usually both the same color,
mostly both white, and that the black/white contrast would have come up prominently in the 19th century,
at least the link below suggests this:
Il Carro/Le Chariot/The Chariot
In the thread Religion here,
Momo listed "assignments of Al-Biruni,G. Bonatti....", here an extract just with white-red-black:
Saturn: Jews and those who dress in black
Jupiter: Christians and those dressed in white
Mars: Idolaters dressed in red
William Lilly lists horses with the 12th house (among other larger animals) and - astonishingly to me - with Mars and the Sun...
And in terms of signs, he mentions them with Sagittarius where he writes the following:
* Diseases: It ruleth the thighs and buttocks in the parts of man’s body, and all fistulas or hurts falling in those members,
and generally denoteth blood heated, fevers pestilential, falls from horses, or hurts from them or four-footed beasts;
also prejudice by fire, heat and intemperateness in sports. |
* Places: A stable of great horses, or horses for the wars, or a house where usually great four- footed beasts are kept;
it represents in the fields, hills, and the highest places of lands or grounds that rise a little above the rest;
in houses upper rooms, near the fire.
(I had often associated black-white (without red) with Lilith, but am not sure if that is really so.
Lilith at about 22° Virgo was at a trine to Jupiter at about 22° Taurus who had just overtaken Uranus in the sky a few days ago,
i.e. in a way Jupiter had broken free.
If you add Priapus (opposite point of Lilith) at 22° Pisces you get a dragon figure with Priapus joined by Mars at the head of the dragon,
but that does not really add up to me... Also there would have been a grand trine with Lilith, Jupiter/Uranus and Ceres...)
Generally, isn't two of a kind - whether same color or opposite ones - also always to some degree a Gemini theme?
Somehow I have the feeling that I am overlooking something obvious...
If had to bet now, I would bet on the nodes in the middle of Aries, "loosing the head",
it going up into air (air as in air-ies), but...
I am not much familiar with coats of arms; according to the video below the only one for England or the UK
that had dragons would have been the one of 927-1016 (while London would have two dragons at least today).
Further below again the chart for when the horses would have broken free with outside the chart for the "UK Unification" of 927
according to Nicolas Campion's "Book of World Horoscopes", 12 July 927 (jul.) no time, "Eamont nr., Penrith"...
The moon in transit would have been near Jupiter in 927, hence maybe lunatic horses?
And there is also the n.node in 927 near Saturn at the event, hence something with time (Big Ben)?
And one more observation: The galactic center would have been near the DC, but that depends on a few minutes earlier or later...
etherea said (Sun 28 Apr 2024 22:55:31 CEST):
@xphi...
Coat of arms of the Prince of Wales - Wikipedia
You can see the dragon in the heraldic shield, at the bottom - scroll down for more info
I do note from the chart/s that you posted, that the Ur/Ju conjunction fell at midpoint to 927 natal Pluto and Uranus (Aries).
That could account for the sudden disruption, the bloodied wounds, the traumatised horses.
Thanks a lot, that is to me so far the best single explanation, feels like the kind of energy of the event...
927: Uranus 22°57' Aries
927: Pluto 21°56' Gemini
927: Midpoint 22°27' Taurus
Event: Jupiter 22°34' Taurus (Uranus 22°00' Taurus)
That would have been very close, also for Big Ben, stopped at the first occasion after 8:20, at 9...
(Maybe this event could even be used to rectify a time of day on 12 July 927?)
Queen Elizabeth II:
Uranus-Pluto midpoint: 20° 39' Taurus
(Saturn 24°26' Scorpio, MC 25°34' Scorpio)
Queen of the United Kingdom Elizabeth II, horoscope for birth date 21 April 1926, ...
Keira Knightley:
Uranus-Pluto midpoint: 21° 02' Scorpio
(n.node 20°40' Taurus)
Keira Knightley, horoscope for birth date 26 March 1985, born in London, with Ast...
[etherea replied — to the Queen part only:
"In connection with that 927 chart and that event, what you observe here is eerie....... 
what a detail..!!"]
(Just some impressions and thoughts in times of early Gemini Sedna and other astrological influences I guess...)
- The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
- Kafka von Tag zu Tag (Kafka day by day) by Rainer Stach
- Poussière blonde (Blonde Dust) by Tatiana de Rosnay
As I wrote in the opening post, assuming that Sedna would be planet that would defines the epoch since her discovery in 2003/2004,
similarly to Pluto 1930-2003/2004, Neptune 1846-1930 and Uranus 1776-1846,
Sedna would have gotten a (post-)modern rulership / domicile, and my guess was Libra,
hence in a nutshell Sedna would be similar to Venus but with "more Libra" than Taurus...
I did not know much about F. Scott Fitzgerald, to me the image was he and Zelda in Woody Allen's "Midnight in Paris",
so I assumed they were a "regular" couple of artists, in love and getting on well together.
But at the end of chapter 2 in "The Great Gatsby",
after a quite straightforward terse description of places and people from the perspective of the narrator,
things changed.
The situation had be a party in an apparment in New York where Tom Buchanan
(married to Daisy, a distant cousin of the narrator Nick Carraway)
hits his mistress Myrtle Wilson with his open hand during an argument and breaks her nose,
which was not that much of an unusual turn after how Fitzgerald had described the appearance of Tom Buchanan.
Also at the party had been a couple, a Mr. and Mrs. McKey, with him being a photographer.
And then the text goes on like this:
Then Mr. McKee turned and continued on out the door. Taking my hat from the chandelier I followed.
"Come to lunch some day," he suggested, as we groaned down in the elevator.
"Where?"
"Anywhere."
"Keep your hands off the lever," snapped the elevator boy.
"I beg your pardon," said Mr. McKee with dignity, "I didn't know I was touching it."
"All right," I agreed, "I'll be glad to."
...I was standing beside his bed and he was sitting up between the sheets, clad in his underwear, with a great portfolio in his hands.
"Beauty and the Beast...Loneliness...Old Grocery Horse ...Brook'n Bridge..."
Then I was lying half asleep in the cold lower level of the Pennsylvania Station,
staring at the morning "Tribune" and waiting for the four o'clock train.
The Great Gatsby
(Out of copyright, the author has been dead for more than 80 years.)
Thinly veiled gay porn, I would say...
"chandelier", "evevator", "groaned down", "lever", "great portfolio", and the answer "I'll be glad to"
that could be related to the immediately previous sentence, around security there is the term "plausible deniability"...
F. Scott Fitzgerald, horoscope for birth date 24 September 1896, born in St.Paul, ...
He had the sun in early Libra (hence trine Sedna and Pluto currently),
and a conjunction of Venus (traditional ruler of Libra and Taurus) and Mercury (traditional ruler of Gemini and Virgo,
modern ruler of Gemini), which would seem to be a relatively good mirror of Sedna as ruler of Libra in Gemini,
at least of some aspects of it - presuming my hypothesis about domicile had some truth to it, of course...
I just noticed at ADB that he had a third given name, "Key", which means very likely that Mr. McKee, like him in a man-woman couple,
would be sort of a facet of himself. Apparently Fitzgerald wrote in a letter in 1935
that he would he "half feminine" (and there was least one photo in a newspaper with him in women's clothes)
and apparently he also once wrote that all characters in his novels would be himself in a way -
I am quoting from memory, just read that up yesterday mainly at Wikipedia, should be easy to find.
On a "metaphysical level", I guess this is about different perspectives of the same,
which would be something related to Gemini (where he had Pluto and a Neptune-Mars conjunction),
like a small child who discovers new things, holds them in his/her hands, turns them around,
in order to learn how they work, what they are, how to use them for something, etc.
To me male homosexuality very often has something of a Libra theme. Is two of the same or two opposites more balanced?
And the relation to death in the symbolism of Libra, or the "unbearable lightness of being".
If you cannot produce offspring (as is so far impossible for two men), the only thing of real weight in life is death.
Also that often love of a woman ends tragically in stories written by gay men as for Gatsby despite his greatness...
Maybe is somewhat exaggerated or biased what I just wrote, but I think there is truth to it at the core...
Kafka...
Turns out I did at first not read precisely enough, because at one entry for 28 January 1922
where it says he would have rebooted "The Castle", there is a "(?)" after the date...
But the very terse fragments in the days before and after are quite revealing in a way
(and note that the wording is immediately by Rainer Stach, not directly Kafka himself).
Difficult to condense and cannot reproduce all here (but see pages 512 and 513 in the book, diary entries between 23 and 31 January 1922).
But I think now I understand probably something, related to him and women,
like in his diary 28 January 2022 "Still the possibility of happiness ("Glück") if Milena came to Spindelmühle,
similarly with Felice Bauer in Marienbad".
Felice would be Felice Bauer, his first fiancee, who he did not marry, and Milena would be Milena Jesenska resp. Pollak by marriage.
23 January 1922
Diary: K.'s whole life a sequence of cancelled attempts, conversation with Milena.
Brod visits K., who tells about his visit to a brothel. Brod is shocked ("erschüttert").
I am not sure if he ever met Milena again in person after that, but appears like a breakup.
In the biography of David Zane Mairowitz and Robert Crumb (yes the "comics" artist) they write (p. 102):
And, as far as such things can be judged, she was probably the only woman he ever really loved.
You can smell it in the correspondence.
The "Letters to Milena" are not like those to Felice, great literature parading as love,
with a Jewish Pygmalion carving his wife out of stone.
[...]
Yet, on the whole, the Milena letters are straightforward, with less of the usual ambiguity and self-abuse.
Most of all, you get the feeling she had made him aware of his own longing an that he really _wants_ her.
Feels quite accurate to me...
Milena quite arguably made it into "The Castle" as Frieda,
where K. meets her at the "Herrenhof" ("Herr" = "Mr."/"Master", "Hof"="court")
and apparently there was a "Herrenhof" in Vienna at the time where Mr. Pollak used to go,
and inofficially it was called "Hurenhof" ("Hure"="Whore").
In the diary on 28 and 29 January Kafka writes about two worlds, the world of humans and the "world of K.",
not sure if he made it explicit of whether with the "world of K." he was rather talking about the world in his novels
or also more literally about his own inner world, or whether he made a difference there.
I guess with Pluto in early Gemini and possibly near the end of his 10th house, just behind Saturn,
such a duality ("Gemini") would have been quite existential ("Pluto"/"Saturn").
Franz Kafka, horoscope for birth date 3 July 1883, born in Prague, with Astrodatabank biography
As I remember, Freud would have associated all art and culture to be the result of not having sex,
of redirecting the literal sex drive to something more abstract or generally towards more "Air" in astrological terms.
And, of course, at least in older years, probably also via Jung/Spielrein, Freud added the death drive...
No look at the third book, yet...
Later on the afternoon when Sedna had entered Gemini, something slightly unusual happened.
I was removing some very young maple trees (from this year or last year mostly) that had grown
and I was near the road and the garbage container and someone had put an indoor plant in its pot near the container
with a slip that said "free to take".
Two guys on bicycles came by, stopped and asked who's plant that was.
I explained, and there was some kind of "conversation",
one was talking to the other about having been sick and the non-practical clerks had not taken care of the box bushes despite his warnings,
so they had been eaten up so much in 4 weeks by boxwood borers that the bushes had to be removed and replaced with other bushes,
and in between I interjected that I had not yet given up on my box bushes in my garden (53)...
Was maybe a conversation more like in Italian TV when I was young,
with people talking at the same time about different things and was not a problem at all.
Anyways, the two guys decided not to take the plant along
and the "leader" of them strangely congratulated me on the "good job" I was doing before leaving,
presumably regarding my garden work with the little maple trees...?
When I checked later in the evening, the plant was gone, maybe they took it on the way back, maybe someone else...
(No, it was not in the containers.)
Almost like the fates "barbie-congratulating" me on maybe a "good job" with "ken-splaining" Sedna?
With their messenger Hermes as two "Gemini men"...
But it goes maybe further. Box wood is the origin of the word "box" obviously, also in German ("Buchs"/"Büchse")
and also as in the "Box of Pandora" ("Pandoras Büchse"),
in ancient Greece women would put ointments and makeup etc. into beautifully ornamented boxes made of box wood*.
In my book "Elementary Star Signs" of 2018 I use the story of Psyche in Apuleius' "The Golden Ass"
to explain the elemental transmutations in the signs, and for the three Air signs Gemini-Libra-Aquarius
the one where Psyche goes to the underworld to retrieve a box of some sort of ointments,
so the box would "in my book" also be a symbol of Air signs (besides obviously the female sex that can produce life)
and particularly of its central sign Libra, with often sexuality relatively thinly veiled in culture around Air signs,
but I should mention that my perspective is somewhat from outside regarding Air signs in general,
since I have no major astrological objects in Air signs (although IC in Libra).
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyxis_(vessel)
At work, yesterday out of the blue a soccer table appeared, actually one of the women there,
using an electrical pallet truck for the first time in her life, brought it in and we mounted it,
about 3 women and 3 men, very harmoniously and with quite a lot of talking.
I remember Liz Greene in "The Astrology of Fate" and Leda and the swan and then two eggs out of which two children came from each,
each egg with one female and one male, and one egg with immortals and one with mortals,
including the two Gemini brothers Castor+Pollux, and at a soccer table it is usually 2 against 2, 2 defense, 2 attack.
By the way, I came slightly late to the soccer table and did not pay attention while helping to assemble it,
but the others had first made a mistake, they had put all the red and all the blue players on one half of court each,
so no strikers, which I guess would have lead to maybe more peaceful games...?
And, reminding also of banana bar crawl, someone I know from work back several years,
quite an intelligent guy but also one who gets quite wild when he drinks,
yesterday asked me and 3 others to meet in the evening this week for a drink,
so there seems to be generally more communication, which might actually be nice with Sedna there...
Makes sense to me.
Yesterday I googled news around Kim Kardashian.
I had mentioned her in the opening post along with Paris Hilton.
In any case, Sedna would have been placed very well in Taurus (and still is),
and this might mirror all the "Kardashians" and generally stardom in social media
that is often first and foremost based on being femal,
on being beautiful rather than based on any specialized skill like acting or singing.
The maybe first such celebrity was Paris Hilton, whose sex tape "leaked" just around the discovery of Sedna,
and Kim Kardashian, friends with Paris Hilton at least at the time (I think),
had also a sex tape "leaked" not so much later.
First photos of Sedna were (automatically) taken 4 Nov 2003, the discovery was made public 15 March 2004,
and the sex video "1 night in Paris" was published on the Internet 15 June 2004 (based on material filmed in 2001),
not so clear how intended or accidental by whom...
21 March 2007 a sex video titled "Kim Kardashian, Superstar" was made public, based on material filmed in October 2003,
i.e. around the time also Sedna was "shot" the first time. Again not so clear what was intentional or accidental by whom,
with arguably likely a larger intentional component since, as Wikipedia writes,
"[Kim] Kardashian was relatively unknown before the tape's release. [...]
She was also known as a friend and personal stylist for Paris Hilton
after she appeared in three episodes of Hilton's show The Simple Life in 2006."
What was to me genuinely new around their fame was that it was based in many ways entirely on being female (a "Venus").
In the past at least in the 20th century being famous as a beautiful woman involved usually some skill like as an actress or singer.
Especially Kim Kardashian does remind of an Isis or Inanna "Venus/Aphrodite" goddess with her sculpted body and symmetry.
(The "sculpted" part might be a Libra theme, by the way.)
It was since then in my perception that social media started to grow big and also when selfies came up
(but would be interesting to research when exactly what happened).
Selfies are to me like Venus looking into her mirror,
with the mirror as also one way of seeing the astrological glyph for Venus ♀.
1 Night in Paris - Wikipedia
Kim Kardashian, Superstar - Wikipedia
Social media - Wikipedia
Extract:
2003 Myspace
2003 LinkedIn
2004 Facebook
2005 Youtube
2005 Reddit
2006 Twitter
But to what I found yesterday...
Seems that over the weekend first Kim Kardashian dyed her hair blonde
and a bit later cut it quite short and dyed it partially pink:
[She had not cut her hair then, just rearranged it,
even more in tune with Sedna.]
As also some comments suggest that way she would also resemble the current girlfriend of her ex husband Kanye West more...
Hair and Sedna is in the mythology of course quite prominent,
so when moving from a female sign ruled by Venus to a male sign cutting hair seems not far fetched
(but of course there might be other, more personal reasons too,
there is an early Leo Sabian Symbol where a woman has her hair "bobbed").
Gemini are often very competitive, so maybe she would actually want to fight for her ex husband
against the Italian girl friend of her ex now that Sedna is in Gemini,
but in a still relatively subtle and female way?
I have two good friends who are both Gemini suns, both born in early Gemini (25 and 26 May, two years apart).
They both became essentially bankers and are also as you would imagine rather slim including their faces.
The games we played (like table tennis, board games, billards, etc.)
when younger were always a quite serious matter to them, winning or losing important.
That is of course also reflected in mythology where one of the Dioscuri was into sports
and the other in military if I remember correctly.
In early March the transgender woman Noa-Lynn van Leuven (i.e. born as a man and presumably genetically male)
won a darts tournament after which two (female) team mates left the team.
Noa-Lynn van Leuven - Wikipedia
MSN
Here's her birth chart without houses with the Sedna Gemini ingress outside:
To me a lot of recent things around sexes are coming from a generation with Pluto in Sagittarius -
plus also aquarian elements, esp. with Pluto in Aquarius.
Noa-Lynn van Leuven has Pluto very early in Sagittarius, hence opposite the Sedna ingress and at a sextile to Pluto now.
Darts could in a way be considered a variation of archery.
What is coming up with that is whether in sports like darts or chess being genetically male is an actual inherited advantage or not.
I presume Sagittarius and Gemini disagree about that.
Recently I think the University of Bern (?) in Switzerland installed some unisex bathrooms and some women complained.
The author of the book "Unorthodox", Deborah Feldman, did mention in an interview in German TV
that women would often not like transgender women to come to women's bathrooms,
ecause they would be more aggressive or something like that, don't remember exactly.
Where would you go as a transgender woman? I guess to a woman's bathroom is generally safer.
(How will that be in the future in the "Age of Aquarius"?
Maybe architecturally (Aquarius theme) resolved with maybe single bathroom cells
and larger ones that could be shared by 2 or 3 and locked up after entering, or what?)
I guess there will be many variations in mundane things around these themes.
A movie titled "Challengers" has come out 26 April 2024 in the US (i.e. the weekend with the Sedna Gemini ingress)
where two men apparently court a female tennis player together or something like that.
So there is competition and also no competition, but also two men with one woman, Gemini plus Venus...
Challengers (2024) ⭐ 7.1 | Comedy, Drama, Romance
Hm, the second trailer begins with one of the men eating a banana.
Hermes means "pillar" in ancient Greeks, so there is a relatively direct link from Gemini (and Virgo) to the male sex.
Hermès (sculpture) — Wikipédia
Penguin Trauma said (Wed 1 May 2024 10:06:57 CEST):
We might need to consider Neptune approaching the 29° and therefore about to conjunct Scheat
The fixed star Scheat is one of three stars that sits in the constellation of Pegasus, the Winged Horse,
so therefore a very strong link to horses:
Astrology King - Scheat
Excerpts:
Constellation Pegasus the Flying Horse gives ambition, vanity, intuition, enthusiasm, caprice, and bad judgment.
It prevails against the diseases of horses and preserves horsemen in battle.
Mundane Astrology: Drowning, accidents, catastrophes, earthquakes, tsunamis, storms, floods, shipwrecks,
mining/airplane accidents, falling accidents, shooting down from high, horses, jockeys, transportation,
communication, space travel, exploration, pioneering, science, invention, heroism.
About Scheat itself - from the article:
According to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Mars and Mercury; to Simmonite, of Saturn; to other authors, of Saturn and Mercury;
and, to Alvidas, of Neptune in square to Saturn or Mars.
It causes extreme misfortune, murder, suicide, and drowning.
This star imparts to its natives’ stubbornness, one who can be headstrong of a combative nature.
The native gains lose friends and acquaintances, may be unfortunate, of a changeable, almost unpredictable nature,
has high enterprise, and may be subject to violence.
May become of a controversial nature. Fantasizes.
Scheat is an especially unfortunate star regarding the sea.
It was said to indicate danger from that element in the form of tidal waves or violent storms.
As the recent turn of events has now gone from "weird stuff in London" involving injured runaway horses,
to a very horrible darker turn.
A man brandishing a sword and stabbing people, which sadly took the life of a 14 year old boy.
It is speculated that the man had a mental illness, and was heard shouting to the police, "do you believe in God?"
Mars was still in Pisces at the time, at the Anaretic degree, conjunct both Neptune and Scheat.
The rates of murder in the UK as a whole have actually decreased, however from the murders that have occured,
the percentage of them that have been
directly linked to mental illness has vastly increased.
Sadly, I think with Neptune conjunct Scheat, incidents of this nature may be more prominent.
In general I think mental health is going to get worse.
Or at least the dire state of mental health services will be put sharply under the spotlight,
in light of yesterday's incident.
The small boats drownings may escalate as well, it seems to be already happening.
It seems to have stepped up greatly when Saturn entered Pisces, but with Neptune conjunct Scheat,
there is a real risk of it getting far worse.
Sad new event ...
Here's a chart for the call to the police (07:00 BST) according to the BBC*,
a bit earlier Pluto could have been closer to the MC (or maybe even Sedna to the AC),
that it apparently started with a car (with the killer inside) crashing into a house
could be a hint at Neptune (via oil replacing steam energy in the time after the discovery of Neptune,
and cars mostly powered by oil, and of course because the power of cars is indicated in horse powers
with Poseidon and horse races...)
* https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-68927027
Mars is at 29°41'36" Pisces, very close to Scheat, according to the link below at AstroSeek,
Scheat would currently be at 29°42' Pisces
(moves about 1° forward tropically in 72 years or a little less than one arc minute per year):
Fixed Stars and Constellations, Astrology Calculator
At the incident with the horses (and Big Ben) Neptune was at 28°43'16",
hence would have just entered the usual orb for fixed stars, if that counts for an event happening then...
Neptune will be around 29°42' Pisces on approx. these dates:
- 3 June 2024
- 1 August 2024 rx
- 22 March 2025
- 6 November 2025 rx
- 13 January 2026
Saturn will be around 29°42' Pisces on approx. these dates:
- 21 May 2025
- 5 September 2025
- 11 February 2026
My mother had Venus at 29°15' Pisces, born in 1939 when Scheat was at 28°31' Pisces.
She almost drowned in a local river when she was still a child, someone saw it, jumped in and rescued her,
not sure how young she was then, but I think was younger than 10.
In 1964 (?) in Kyoto in Japan she was exceptionally not together with my father for a single afternoon,
she was in park there and a crazy guy had escaped from an asylum or something like that and the had a knife,
not sure about all details related to my mother, but she was hiding and observing where he went,
and maybe he had first tried to stab her coming from behind the bench she was sitting...
No exact dates, maybe I could find a rough date for the incident at Kyoto, cannot ask my parents any more...
Nothing ever with horses around my mother as far as I know.
My Saturn (retrograde) is at 29°06' Pisces, born in 1966 when Scheat was 28°53' Pisces. Nothing with horses or drowning.
According to my parents, I was hit by a car on sort of a parking lot when I was about two years old,
some injuries on the lower part of my legs, but I don't remember that and there are no visible traces;
I have never been in a hospital as a patient since my birth (knocking on wood...)...
Is Scheat maybe conversely why things I find get little public attention...
I don't want to get off topic here, just shared some info related to Scheat
in order to maybe better be able what to expect in London and elsewhere in the coming two years...
(My chart is public,
I have the n.node at 21.x Taurus, which I why I knew where Keira Knightley has them and why I looked her up.)
(Not sure if this really fits here enough,
but certainly relates to the first of the three books I bought just before Sedna moved into Gemini,
and also relates at least to some themes of Rashomon which was unexpectedly on TV the day of the ingress in the evening,
and considering that etherea wrote "as astrological teaching goes,
the first degree of a sign is strongly vibing the sign energy",
which seems to be the very much the case with this ingress in my feeling, here it is...)
Today I read the rest of "The Great Gatsby" (May 1st is a public holiday in Zürich and the book is quite short),
and I think I will keep the book, which is already a lot for me,
I usually buy a lot more books than I read (I only read maybe 1-3 books every year from beginning to end)
and even when I do, I might not keep them in the end, maybe mostly my Uranus-Pluto conjunction in Virgo in 3.
I cannot really say what it is in the end, but there is something to the book.
Sure, there were also what might be more veiled hints at things that were or are not acceptable in the bourgeoisie,
and there is also something that transpires that has some similarity with Oscar Wilde's short story "The Nightingale and the Rose",
where a nightingale sacrifices her heart blood till death in order to provide a red colored rose to a student
to whom the daughter of the professor had promised to dance with if he brought her a red rose,
but then materialistically refuses in the end, because someone else had given her jewels.
Short Stories: The Nightingale and the Rose by Oscar Wilde
This is arguably a rather gay perspective of relations between men and women, that women would not be worth the love,
and there is some truth to it if your perception is not susceptible to women in the heterosexual sense,
to what you can get overall.
Metaphysically, the core issue is maybe that one can never be sure if love is mutual,
and also not of being able to perceive all aspects of an issue in general...
Here's a copy of a post by me to Usenet from earlier this year,
actually quite close to the date when Google Groups stopped archiving new posts this winter...
Subject: The Limits of Control
Date: Tue 14 Feb 2024 20:19:52 CET
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.taoism
The cat of the neighbors often comes by, Stoscha, a cat that is
clearly smarter than most and also otherwise special. But there
is something he either does not get or maybe simply does not want
to get. He often loves to chase a light spot, either reflected
from the sun with my watch or with a flashlight plus a tube, but
even when I try to show him the connection between my movements
and the light spot by moving, say, my watch close to the ground,
he does not get it or is not interested to get it. Conversely, I
once tried to do something similar with a shadow of something,
but then he just gave me look that said (without exaggeration)
"Do you think I am stupid and don't know what a shadow is?"...
One could argue that in wilderness, shadows are common, can
protect you from the sun, can maybe hide you, can warn you if
some other animals come, and so on, while dots of light might
rather be, say, insects reflecting light with their wings, hence
be prey, or other unusual circumstances or at least ones unlike
the situation with the shadows that are omnipresent.
Makes you, of course, also think of Plato's Cave Allegory, where
light and shadow also play a great role. Anyways, makes me simply
wonder if everybody has things that he/she/* cannot perceive, even
though they might be obvious to many or even practically everybody
else... Men and women, different cultures, and so on, hence the
title, of course also relating to the movie, which I once saw and
also liked, but did not investigate anything around it...
By the way, it seems that the cat still learned a bit how this works over time since then,
but still mostly chooses not to care about it, is sort of half aware of it,
does not want to destroy the beauty of the illusion.
I guess a lot in relationships is also about such things, not knowing all to the bottom,
which is maybe a Libra theme, or also Pisces (where Venus is exalted)...
(BTW The Sabian symbol for 30° Pisces is "The Great Stone Face." which may place Saturn favorably there.)
The Great Gatsby way published 10 April 1925 and the publisher was based in NYC,
here a chart without houses with outside the middle of the afternoon when I was reading.
Maybe most prominent the Venus-Mercury conjunctions in synastry,
Venus at publication at 16°50' Aries and yesterday while reading Mercury at 17.x° Aries;
retrograde Mercury at publication at 2°24' Taurus and yesterday while reading Venus at 2.x° Taurus.
Also a mix with personal themes of me probably, my natal Moon is at 17.x° Aries
and 2.x° Taurus is where the moon is traditionally exalted.
Also interesting Eris so early in Aries at publication.
If you remember, temporary names for the planet were first Lila then Xena,
after the TV series "Xena Warrior Princess",
and Wikipedia writes "Xena has enjoyed a particular cult status in the lesbian community.
Some of the lesbian fan base see Xena and Gabrielle as a couple
and have embraced them as role models and lesbian icons.".
It is my impression that female homosexuality would have a lot of Aries, opposite Libra for male homosexuality.
The actress who plays Xena, Lucy Lawless, has sun/moon/Saturn/n.node in Aries,
was married to a man 1988-1995 and has 3 children...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Gatsby
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xena:_Warrior_Princess#Influence_on_the_lesbian_community
Lucy Lawless, horoscope for birth date 29 March 1968, born in Auckland, with Astrodatabank biography
Original cover (image public domain)
File:The Great Gatsby Cover 1925 Retouched.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
PS: In case was not obvious: The Venus-Mercury conjunctions would fit the Sedna themes,
Venus-like (pot. domicile in Libra), now in Gemini where Mercury has his domicile,
while the "moon angle" is I guess also a theme of Sedna besides one of mine
(while with my moon in 10 it sort of automatically also becomes something more general).
But enough for the moment, more immediately practical things to do...
Doris Day Sings "The Glass Bottom Boat" (and "Que Sera", from the 1966 movie titled "The Glass Bottom Boat")
She's a Gemini with the MC in Gemini conjunct her moon, although both late Gemini (i.e. not with Sedna)
Doris Day, horoscope for birth date 3 April 1922, born in Cincinnati, with Astrodat...
She has a tight Sedna-Sun-Chiron stellium around 14° Aries.
Very interesting input today, wow
Alycone is around 0°19' Gemini now. After reading in Constellation of Words,
I tried to look her up in Robert Graves' works, or at least the Perseides, but no direct references,
but there is one to a goddess with presumed (by Graves) name "Alys" in "The White Goddess",
which might also relate to the glass bottomed boat, but maybe more of a coincidence...
Direct link that searches for "Alys" in the book and should show the found text:
The White Goddess : Robert Graves : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Int...
(The automatically parsed text mistakes the French city of "Arles" for "Aries", or maybe the similarity is not a pure coincidence)
In Diana Roche's "The Sabian Symbols" are low-res scans of the original notes that Marc Edmund Jones took
hen Elsie Wheeler gave her visions in that park in San Diego in 1925 (the year "The Great Gatsby" was published).
There it says for the first degree of Gemini: A glass-bottomed boat in still water
(And Jones later added a keyword "curiosity".)
The still water could be a hot summer day and still water is typically better for a clear view under water,
but it might also sort of insinuate "death" (as there is no movement).
Graves touches more details than I can repeat here, maybe just read it up at the link above...
Alys would be related to the Elysian Fields, the place where the greatest heroes and heroines in Greece came after the death,
the most beautiful place in the underworld (and, yes, the Champs Elysées in Paris are named after that).
Dead bodies (or later puppets) going down the river is something that I think goes back to at least ancient Egypt.
But certainly incomplete the interpretation so far...
xphi... said (Fri 3 May 2024 11:54:39 CEST):
Alycone is around 0°19' Gemini now.
Ah, my mistake, ist Alcyone not Alycone, hence likely not related to Alys...
Here's the search in "The White Goddess" for Alcyone instead:
The White Goddess : Robert Graves : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Int...
In biology halycon is the name a genus of kingfisher birds, named after the myth.
Various kinds of kingfishers and human cultural artifacts are named after the couple, in reference to this metamorphosis myth:
- The genus Ceyx (within the river kingfishers family) is named after him.
- The kingfisher subfamily Halcyoninae (tree kingfishers) is named after his wife, as is the genus Halcyon.
- The belted kingfisher's specific name (Megaceryle alcyon) also references her name.
Not all the kingfishers are named in this way.
The etymology of kingfisher (Alcedo atthis) is obscure; the term comes from "king's fisher",
but why that name was applied is not known.
Kingfisher - Wikipedia
"Halcyon" is a name for a bird in Greek legend generally associated with the kingfisher.
There was an ancient belief that the bird nested on the sea, which it calmed in order to lay its eggs on a floating nest.
Two weeks of calm weather were therefore expected around the winter solstice.
This myth leads to the use of halcyon as a term for peace or calmness.
Halcyon (genus) - Wikipedia
"king's fisher" reminds me also of the "fisher king" around Percival and the grail legend
(which Liz Greene in "The Astrology of Fate" mentions around chiefly Leo, and also around Capricorn),
and maybe floating islands in mythology like Delos where Artemis and Apollon were born
(and maybe(!) still a bit related to "alys" and then via that to Avalon etc. -
I guess in etymology two letters getting flipped over time is not unseen),
and, of course the "glass-bottomed boat in still water" in these times matches
"peace of calmness" of a floating nest via the degree in which the fixed star currently is,
and will be for another roughly 49 more years, i.e. a bit longer than Sedna will stay in Gemini (about 43 years) –
i.e. since the first degree and ingress would be important for the whole sign would mean
that in a way Alcyone might stay a theme for the whole time with Sedna in Gemini...
But to something more political, which reflects in current affairs, namely the (rather misnomed) "hush money" trial around Trump.
On 16 October 2018 a book titled "The Kingfisher Secret" was published by an anonymous author
(and in 2020 apparently republished by an author named "Alex Urban" for which I could find nothing at all):
Who owns the most powerful man in the world?
Her code name is Kingfisher. Her mission: to seduce and marry a man of wealth and political influence.
Now she must protect a terrifying secret.
October 2016: In America, the election is a few weeks away.
Journalist Grace Elliott has just landed a scoop that she believes will make her career.
A porn star is willing to talk about her affair with the man some hope
and many fear will become the next president of the United States.
But no one will touch it.
Not even Grace's boss, the right-wing publisher of America's leading tabloid.
Instead, Grace is sent to Europe where she discovers a story so big, so explosive
that it could decide the American election and launch a new Cold War.
As long as she can stay alive long enough to tell it.
Spies, murder, and one of the biggest conspiracies of our time lie at the heart of this immersive thriller.
-- https://www.amazon.com/Kingfisher-Secret-ebook/dp/B07HLXF4NZ
I read the book in 2018 or 2019 when Trump was the US president.
It is a "roman à clef" around Trump, that his former wife Ivana would have been a KGB agent,
Trump would have become bound to Russia via some events with prostitutes in Moscow,
and that he would also have been financially saved at least one time with money from Russia,
if I remember correctly.
In the immediate sense, the story circles around a (female) reporter from the US and a handsome Czech guy,
but as it turns out Ivana's character comes out as rather a hero in the end,
which together with genuinely "Czech" elements in the story gives me the impression
that it is somewhat of Czech origin and that maybe even Ivana Trump was part of a secret joke
that plays with some maybe long-running conspiracy theories,
leaving open which are true and which not at all,
while being written in a straightforward style that seems like in many US thrillers.
And, of course, there is also a character for Putin...
Ivana Trump died 14 July 2022,
apparently would have been an accident by falling down the stairs in her NYC apartment:
On July 14, 2022, aged 73, Ivana, who was reportedly frail in her last months,
died of blunt impact injuries to the torso after falling down stairs at her home on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.
Ivana Trump - Wikipedia
I am not aware of any conspiracy theories around her death,
while it should be noted that she was in the Czech junior national ski team when she was young
and got a "master's degree in physical education in 1972" from Charles University in Prague (see Wikipedia above).
Here is her birth chart (RR A, "LMR quotes a colleague, from her in June 1992") with transits for the date of her death.
Ivana Trump, horoscope for birth date 20 February 1949, born in Gottwaldov, with...
The first thing I notice is that her moon would have been in the first degree of Sagittarius,
i.e. in opposition to Sedna and Alcyone now, plus of course the sextile to Pluto now,
where in her birth chart there was also Mercury relatively nearby at almost 6° Aquarius.
etherea said (Fri 3 May 2024 08:15:59 CEST):
Al Cyone:
From this derives 'Halcyon', and Cion / Zion (the latter very much in the news, e.g. Zionism).
I found this for the etymology of Zion (bold by me):
The etymology of the word Zion (ṣiyôn) is uncertain.
Mentioned in the Old Testament in the Books of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:7) as the name of a Jebusite fortress conquered by David,
its origin seems to predate the Israelites. If Semitic,
it may be derived from the Hebrew root ṣiyyôn ("castle")
or the Hebrew צִיָּה ṣiyya ("dry land" or "desert", Jeremiah 51:43).
A non-Semitic relationship to the Hurrian word šeya ("river" or "brook")
has also been suggested as also one of Hittite origin.
Zion - Wikipedia
That gets me to the second book I bought last Saturday just before the Sedna ingress,
the book with a timeline of what happened when in Kafka's life,
where I had already in the bookstore looked up when he would have started to write "The Castle".
Kafka's best friend Max Brod and publisher/promoter of his works after death in 1924
was apparently quite a bit of a Zionist and he emigrated to Israel just about evading the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia,
while Kafka himself also apparently at played with the idea of emigrating to Israel,
and maybe without tuberculosis he would have actually gone there with Dora Diamant (his last girlfriend).
I did buy diaries of Kafka and took a look yesterday. To me gave a different perspective than in Stach's book I had bought,
much more intelligent and always seeing beauty and special things despite of course his tuberculosis and other circumstances.
So I put both away, Stach's book because it does not live up to its whatever about Kafka
(and "stach" is the past tense of "stechen", to stab, which sort of gave me the impression he would be stabbing Kafka
into the heart like in the end of his novel "The Trial"), the diaries because in my view they are his private notes,
not for me to read in full context of his life...
Instead maybe I would finally read "The Castle", a book I have started to read at least 5 times (the first few pages even more)
but never got very far?
And also maybe his letters to Milena, of which I once read the first few –
Milena gave them to Max Brod in exchange to her letters to Franz Kafka...
Alcyone was when Kafka was born not in Gemini, yet, about 28.5° Taurus, i.e. not within 1° of his natal Pluto in early Gemini,
so maybe Zion/Castle also because of some Jewish background and/or Leo themes in Prague/CZ with Rabbi Löw (=lion) who made Golem,
which then leads to Aquarian themes (Prometheus/Epimetheus and Pandora made of clay), too, the grail caste, and likely much more...
Oh well. And I dropped the third, French book, seems more like a "run-off-the-mill" "novel for women", but maybe I am not fair,
just based on reading the first few pages.
The main character is a doctor for horses, so maybe was more other aspects of the times around the Sedna ingress?
Actually, Alcyone would only have entered Gemini in the very early 21st century (and 3rd millenium),
around 13 15 September 2000 (+/- a few days or maybe only hours), with Saturn (rx) in the first degree of Gemini:
I think mountains were very important before the Age of Aries, which makes sense for an Age of Taurus, if only because of the pyramids.
I remember that in the context of the earliest Greek mythological text, the Theogony by Hesiod,
there was mention that it would have come from further east and that there was something with two holy mountains,
one male, one female, I guess in Anatolia, and that such a thing might have been common also in other places
and with Mount Olympus for Zeus and Olympians or Mount Cynthus on Delos for Artemis, but no clear picture...
Hm, Cynthus sounds a least a bit similar to "Cyone", and the name "Cynthia" comes from that, one of the names for Artemis...
Hm, in the book I have started to write since Jan 2019, one of the two main characters is Cynthia,
because of the relation to the moon (in my chart at the MC)...
PS: 9/11 with its Mercury (rx) in the middle of Libra at the AC
(just barely still in the 12th house according to recordings and a publication based on earth quake detectors)
with the associated tumbling twin towers would actually appear to enforce that Gemini theme, but maybe not complete,
there are many fixed stars, and, yet, hm...
...up to the high ground...
Some "research" into the "cyon" of "al cyon"...
Color "cyan":
Its name is derived from the Ancient Greek word kyanos (κύανος), meaning "dark blue enamel, Lapis lazuli".
It was formerly known as "cyan blue" or cyan-blue, and its first recorded use as a color name in English was in 1879.
Further origins[clarification needed] of the color name can be traced back to a dye produced from the cornflower (Centaurea cyanus).
Cyan - Wikipedia
Not sure how old usage of kyanos in ancient Greek would have been,
as far as I know there was no "blue" in the Odyssey (not even for the sea),
words for blues and greens are generally colors that came rather late in culture,
first black/white/red, then usually yellow, only after that green/blue,
but is also difficult to research since usually there are no color samples next to words from ancient sources,
also not clear if any known historical etymological connection to "cyon" in "al cyon"...
Dog in Greek ("kyôn"):
κύων
ΚΎΩΝ
Hund Übersetzung in Altgriechisch, Wörterbuch Deutsch - Altgriechisch | Glosbe
Alcyone in Greek ("alkyón"):
ἀλκυών
ἈΛΚΥΏΝ
"Eisvogel" auf Altgriechisch, Übersetzung, Deutsch-Altgriechisch Wörterbuch, Bei...
I have no idea what the accents that are different between the two words mean exactly,
so maybe there is no known historical etymological connection between the two.
Dogs would be close to Artemis in mythology as she used dogs for hunting.
Cynicism comes from dog, including the philosophical school.
Cynicism (philosophy) - Wikipedia
I even looked up what Keanu means, is apparently hawaiian, ke-anu,
where "ke" is simply "the" and "anu" often translated as "coolness",
but possibly related also to mountains, at least one site says this:
Keanu is Hawaiian and means ‘cool breeze.’ Keh-anu is literally in Polynesian ‘the breeze cool.’
It is a moderating evening wind that blows in off the Pacific over coastal mountains.
Pregnancy, Parenting, Lifestyle, Beauty: Tips & Advice | mom.com
Completely speculated in the following, but maybe "cyon" would orginially even have been c - ana,
the "c" for "the" and "ana" for the goddess Ana as in At-ana (Athena), Di-ana (Diana), Ur-ana,
maybe triple goddess,
see "The White Goddess" where Robert Graves e.g. translates "ur" as "perhaps derived from ouros, a mountain" and "ana" as "queen", ...
The White Goddess : Robert Graves : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Int...
One more thing:
The afternoon of 9/11 before the first plane hit one of the two towers (was at about 3 pm Swiss time),
I had first listened to a then new song on (M?)TV, "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" by Kylie Minogue,
who has Venus in the first degree of Gemini in the 10th house
(RR B, though, but the birth date would most likely be correct.)
Kylie Minogue, horoscope for birth date 28 May 1968, born in Melbourne, with Ast...
Horoscope and astrology data of Kylie Minogue born on 28 May 1968 Melbourne, Australia, with biography
(I mentioned that I had heard that song then already 10 Nov 2003 in Usenet at alt.astrology.moderated.
And note that she once recorded a song with Nick Cave which is about death near a river, "Where the Wild Roses Grow")
BTW, in a bit more than two days, Neptune will pass over my natal Saturn...
I'm out of words... Maybe Sedna in Gemini, but maybe also other things,
always hard to tell apart what is what astrologically,
how objects recombine in various methods and at different scales to what outcome,
with influences from world via charts of countries, cities, friends, family to oneself...
Hm, at least was a sentence worth writing...
Jan Martin said (Tue 7 May 10:43:26 CEST):
Maybe, you moved too far away from mythology, with Sedna as goddess of sea and marine animals, or storm.
I meant generally out of words, not specifically in this thread about Sedna.
Jan Martin said (Tue 7 May 10:43:26 CEST):
Can have that anything to do with "world split"; which is rather a Pluto thing ...
Why would Pluto have something to do with "splits", I cannot see that from the mythology of Pluto,
but I think etherea said something similar about Pluto than you further above in this thread.
I could imagine that the perception of Pluto is strongly colored by the country that discovered Pluto
and promoted it as a planet for much longer than it makes sense scientifically,
and in the USA Pluto is in Capricorn, the dual Janus head...
(Uranus is in Gemini in the USA.)
And, yes, to me Gemini would be about splits into two, with Sedna maybe in some sort of unavoidable way,
rather gentle in a way, a Venus touch, but not only, as in the mythology, of course, no clear picture there,
but the "split" would be from Taurus to Gemini, would not have to be much of a theme in Sedna herself in my perception...
Jan Martin said (Tue 7 May 10:43:26 CEST):
The object Sedna was discovered in a time, when climate change and arctic ice melting became a global issue.
Interesting thought. To me as a physicist, climate change was obvious since a long time ago, Club of Rome was 1968,
Venus with lots of CO2 and very high temperature of the surface...
hey, just noticed that climate collapse would be Venus theme at least in the sense of the physical Planet Venus...
Greta Thunberg was born in 2003 (3 Jan 2003), i.e. in the year in which the first photos of Sedna were made,
but she started protesting only a few years later, presumably (without looking up) with Uranus already in Aries...
Kyoto protocol was 1998...
I don't immediately see much related to Sedna in her birth chart, but there is no birth time known (RR X), so could still be...
Greta Thunberg, horoscope for birth date 3 January 2003, born in Stockholm, with...
Jan Martin said (Tue 7 May 10:43:26 CEST):
Due to the very long period, Sedna is more something in the fixed category, and less something like an asteroid.
Interpreting is limited threrefore, by nature.
Not in my hypothesis.
Sedna would be the main object only until the discovery of another "major object" of some sort further out,
i.e. some "Planet X", and in current times Sedna is not all that slow, is moving something like 2x slower than Pluto.
Astrology in that hypothesis would be mainly shaped by humanity (mostly unconsciously),
to first order no direct influence or symmetry with the objects in the sky in space.
Hm, just writing quickly works, more flowing, just write what fits...
In the LA Times today there is an article (apparently not behind a paywall)
around the house of Marilyn Monroe where she died in 1962, about giving it "landmark status",
apparently because the new owners want to demolish it because they already own the house next door and want to expand it...
Homeowners sue L.A. for right to demolish Marilyn Monroe’s house
Marylin Monroe's Uranus was at 28°59'41' Pisces, Neptune is now at 29°08'16", and with her as a movie star,
there are certainly connections to Neptune/Pisces, plus in my view especially late Pisces / early Aries with Hollywood...
I am really curious what will happen in Hollywood when Neptune enters Aries, will there be some kind of rebirth of movies,
or maybe simply something completely new will grow...?
Marilyn Monroe, horoscope for birth date 1 June 1926, born in Los Angeles, with ...
[I had opened this thread somewhat after an horary thread
(also in German) around the same case of a missing autistic child.
All in all, the corresponding horary that Momo had been asked elsewhere
would have been helpful in her traditional reading to find the child in time
(while other approaches, including mine, would not have been helpful).
And, in general, if an autistic child disappears: Do not search too far away,
but search very, very, very densely, as also seen in similar cases.
I am not reproducing the thread here as the horary thread is already deleted
and this one feels now more of a rather private nature to the people close
to the then missing person than of general interest.
It only made sense at the time with still hope to find the child in time,
while the most important things learned would be have already been summarized above
(traditional horary apparently is very helpful and search closely but densely).]
A detail maybe worth mentioning: By definition (both day and night formulas) at new moon the part of fortune is always exactly on the AC.
Let me review some events in the 21st century related to astrology,
and especially in light of the following ideas about what might be the most important astrological factors that shape it:
- Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions (May 2000 at 22.x° Taurus, Dec 2020 at 0.x° Aquarius)
- Chart of New Year 2000 (birth of the 21st century and the 3rd millenium CE)
- Pluto astronomically no longer a planet (2006)
- Sedna discovered in 2003/2004 (my hypothesis of this thread)
Let me start with Pluto...
The discussion and subsequent vote was scheduled Thursday, 24 August 2006 between 2 PM and 5:30 PM in Prague.
I did watch it at work (exceptionally!), via a webcast, and the moderator was Jocelyn Bell Burnell, discoverer of Pulsars,
born 15 July 1943 in Belfast - actually at least in my feeling at that time rather exceptional still that a woman would be in the lead...
I wrote in Usenet the following Sunday:
In the webcast of the 24 August IAU general assembly, she used the elevator metaphor,
where each speaker would get about the time to speak that it takes an elevator to go from one floor to the other.
Hence, I presume the discussion and vote were not delayed, the Washington Post reported on it with a time stamp of 9:46 AM, assuming EDT,
that would have been 6:46 PM CEST in Prague.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/content/article/2006/08/24/pluto935.html
Just a day earlier in Vienna, at about 1 PM local time, then 18 years old Natascha Kampbusch managed to escape
from the appartment where she had been kept captive since she was 10 years old,
in a room downstairs closed up with a safe door that was according to police so well hidden
that would likely not have been found when searching the house.
Details are more convoluted, but fact remains that she escaped just a day before Pluto was no longer a planet from a typical underworld prison.
Seems to be no Wikipedia entry in English, hence in German:
Entführung von Natascha Kampusch – Wikipedia
The expression "Me too" apparently was also born in 2006, no date found:
The phrase "Me Too" was initially used in this context on social media in 2006, on Myspace,
by sexual assault survivor and activist Tarana Burke.
MeToo movement - Wikipedia
And, of course, only got really big in 2017 following a post by Alyssa Milano.
To me it was with the demonition of Pluto that Pluto lost his "absoluteness".
Maybe also because it was still considered a "dwarf planet" astronomically (which other than the name implies is not a kind of planet),
the power of men in that plutonic sense could be overthrown.
Also after that, arguably triggered by the Fukushima accident of 2011,
many countries wanted to get away from nuclear (plutonic) energy,
but already in 2009 Barak Obama, then US president, gave a speech in Prague (yes, Prague again) about a nuclear-free world.
Now to Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions...
In my perception that influence is clearly visible since the conjunction of 2020 in Aquarius
and has also been visible from sometime in the early 21st century on,
I am not so positive if already since 2000, but am also not excluding it.
I am not so sure about before that, since about the 80s in Libra, since 1962 in Capricorn.
I was not doing astrology then, and in retrospect not so obvious to me.
Hence on my side a certain suspicion that may be wrong:
Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions is sort of the lowest denominator between modern astrology of the 20st century and traditional methods
that came up also roughly around the turn of the millenium.
The Usenet post about the part of fortune of 1996 by Robert Hand was already part of Project Hindsight
where they started to read old texts...
So, maybe Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions would have become more important since Pluto was not longer a planet?
Maybe someone who had been doing astrology longer could say something here,
currently I am not sure if those got much attention in the later half of the 20st century, but could be wrong...
Note that if you knew a little bit of astronomy, that Pluto is not a planet was obvious certainly in 2002 when Quaoar was discovered,
the first similar object in a similar region than Pluto, but scientifically was already quite clear earlier,
so astrologers turning away from the dilemma of Pluto astronomically not a planet
and yet obviously very important in daily work of astrologers, hence no "as above so below, as below so above"...
The chart for the year 2000...
Depends of course on where you cast it.
Since calendars are usually the matter of countries, I usually take midnight at the capital of the country,
which also means that houses are usually similar between countries and only the moon differs, about 12° total per day.
Without looking at it, there are Aquarius-Sagittarius themes,
which I guess fit quite well with a lot of what is generally going on with the internet and computers,
all very much open and matrices and stuff...
Now, to Sedna and my hypothesis...
Seems that social media started in about 2003, see further above, hence "Me too" on myspace could be seen in that light.
Tarana Burke has african orgins, and from Africa it is not far via Aphrodite to Venus.
To me the years 2001 and 2002 very not very much "like Taurus",
but of course there had been the Saturn-Pluto opposition with 9/11 and more...
What I can say is that to me personally with my north node at 21.x° Taurus,
the "appearance" of Sedna at about 15°(?) Taurus made quite a difference,
I had my major idea on which my website is now based in May 2004,
i.e. not long after the discovery of Sedna had been announced,
and from then on evolving my website was very, very, slow, until about 2016,
then a lot grew...
In my view was very helpful to find out "how it is", but promoting it or only conveying it if only to a few,
did not work at all, actually until today.
So, I have some hopes that with Sedna in Gemini that might work out better, at least over time...
But, yes, the last paragraph is just my experience/interpretation...
xphi... said (Wed 8 May 2024 20:57:37 CEST):
Let me start with Pluto...
The discussion and subsequent vote was scheduled Thursday, 24 August 2006 between 2 PM and 5:30 PM in Prague.
I did watch it at work (exceptionally!), via a webcast, and the moderator was Jocelyn Bell Burnell,
discoverer of Pulsars, born 15 July 1943 in Belfast -
actually at least in my feeling at that time rather exceptional still that a woman would be in the lead...
[...]
Just a day earlier in Vienna, at about 1 PM local time, then 18 years old Natascha Kampbusch managed to escape
from the appartment where she had been kept captive since she was 10 years old,
in a room downstairs closed up with a safe door that was according to police so well hidden
that would likely not have been found when searching the house.
Details are more convoluted, but fact remains that she escaped just a day before Pluto was no longer a planet
from a typical underworld prison.
I just noticed that the encounter of Donald Trump and Stormy Daniels (about which the current trial circles) was the same year, in July 2006:
Who is Stormy Daniels, and what happened with Donald Trump?
xphi... said (Sun 28 Apr 2024 11:46:26 CEST):
Before going to the botanical garden, I had been at the Orell Füssli bookstore near Bellevue and bought 3 books,
in retrospect astonishingly all three in different languages:
- The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
- Kafka von Tag zu Tag (Kafka day by day) by Rainer Stach
- Poussière blonde (Blonde Dust) by Tatiana de Rosnay
In the evening I was almost mesmerized that one channel would actually show a movie
that would sort of be categorized as (close to) "really good" in my personal book,
"Rashomon" by Akira Kurosawa of 1950, and I actually watched it,
with original sound and subtitles (in French, was on France 4, part of "culture box"),
the opening scene as often in his movies has tons of rain...
And late in the evening I started to read in The Great Gatsby...
That was the day Sedna entered Gemini, in the afternoon
something like an hour [after] buying those books.
I already read The Great Gatsby since then and wrote about it here.
I am still skipping Kafka for now, but yesterday evening started to read the third book again,
reading a bit more slowly in French than in English or German...
Seems that the story plays at two times,
the "present" in 2000 where the main character named Pauline (personal remark: !),
born in Paris, but living and working in the USA, is a doctor for horses.
She is then working in California, but grew up in Nevada, in Reno,
where in 1960 she would have met Marilyn Monroe when Pauline was working in the hotel, cleaning rooms.
Here is the chart of the author, Tatiana de Rosnay, interestingly her AC is very close to my Part of Fortune,
her AC 28°22' Scorpio (not sure if her birth time (RR AA) of 11:45 would have 1 min or 5 min or 15 min resolution...,
so could be a bit different),
my PoF 29°11' Scorpio:
Her moon and DC would thus be close to Sedna in early Gemini now, her Saturn-Jupiter at a trine,
was well as her Sun in relatively early Libra,
so would be at least relatively closely related to the early Air signs theme with Pluto in early Aquarius and Sedna in early Gemini,
while the DC might actually be in early Gemini if her birth time was just a little off.
What also caught my eye is that the "moon objects" are quite prominently placed, Diana at 2.x° Sagittarius at the AC,
the moon at the DC, Liltith and Artemis at the n.node in the 9th house,
and of course there are a lot more themes overall to see in the chart.....
I noticed that Lake Tahoe, where the Trump/Daniels encounter would have been, is on the border between California and Nevada,
and by the way, the same is also the case in the movie "Bad Times at the El Royale" in a fictional hotel in the 1960s,
a movie I saw in early 2019, when I also started writing a book that still does not grow, so might be related,
at least I strongly suspect that, but astrologically I see not much of a direct connection regarding the latter so far
when looking at charts of early 2019 – maybe I would need "Planet X" to see it...?
Was Kafka aware of Pluto in early Gemini or "only" of Saturn there, at least no contemporary astrologer could have told him,
Kafka died in 1924, Pluto was discovered in 1930.
As far as I remember, many states in the southwest of the USA would seem to have Capricorn or Aquarius suns,
I think Arizona would be Aquarius, Texas I think Capricorn, I had found a list sometime in the past,
but my recollection might be imprecise...
Anyways, I am curious now in which ways the book might maybe mirror some things around Sedna (and Pluto) or maybe not...
PS: Seems that the "El Royale" hotel was inspired by the "Cal Neva" hotel in ... Lake Tahoe...
Cal Neva Lodge & Casino - Wikipedia
Ah, goes back to 1926...
Was 'Bad Times at the El Royale' Inspired By Tahoe’s Cal Neva?
Cal Neva Lodge & Casino - Wikipedia
https://www.sfgate.com/sfhistory/article/history-larry-ellison-Cal-Neva-Lodge-14496588.php
The lodge was constructed in 1926. Four years later, it made national headlines for its first star-studded scandal.
America’s “It” girl, Clara Bow, was accused by management of passing almost $14,000 (over $200,000 today)
in canceled checks in order to pay off her sizeable gambling debts.
[...]
In 1937, the lodge was consumed by a possible arson fire.
It took just 30 days to be completely rebuilt by a force of 500 construction workers.
Its second iteration quickly became an entertainment hotspot.
During the 1950s, the Kennedy family, including John and Robert, were popular guests.
In 1960, crooner Frank Sinatra bought the place with a few friends.
Dean Martin, Hank Sinacola and Paul “Skinny” D’Amato, so-called “Mr. Atlantic City,” were listed as co-owners,
but it was whispered that Chicago Outfit boss Sam Giancana was a silent partner.
Giancana was one of America’s most famous mobsters and very much persona non grata at Nevada casinos.
and:
Giancana and Sinatra figured into one of the Cal Neva’s most mysterious tales:
the last weekend of Marilyn Monroe’s life. [...]
And something mundane, around "world split":
Yesterday former Swiss Bundesrat* Kaspar Villiger warned of possible attacks by Russia on Swiss infrastructure.
The reasoning was that some infrastructure is important for Europe,
but because Switzerland is not in NATO it would not trigger the "NATO alliance case",
which is, by the way much less of an automatism that media often suggest.
Specifically one target was one of the 3 centers for SWIFT in the world, the one in Switzerland,
i.e. would touch themes of money and information exchange, which would fit with the hypothesized themes of Sedna, but not only those.
The other target was a point were several electricity lines cross,
which would I guess be more of a Uranus theme in the immediate sense.
The background of that is also money, because a larger military budget requires more money and where to take it from?
Reduce other things, raise taxes?
But there seems to be some pressure to choose one of two sides, staying neutral not so easy.
Switzerland will probably still manage to do so at least in the coming years,
t least it has better preconditions than most small countries,
lso via ties to many different fractions on the world, Putin's children were probably born in Switzerland, etc.
* Bundesrat: Switzerland has a government (executive branch) of seven "dwarfs",
who decide about national matters as a panel, and each has a department,
i.e. is also what is in other countries a minister.
Each year another one of them is the president ("Bundespräsident"),
but that involves mainly representative tasks like traveling and shaking hands with other heads of state.
And they are from different political parties, roughly in the same number as people vote for politicians in the parliament
(2 chambers, similar to the US, one chamber with 2 members per canton,
the other chamber with members proportional to populations of the kantons),
and, of course, in Switzerland the people have the last word via direct democracy,
some decisions are mandatory to be decided by a popular vote,
some can be by collecting a certain number of signatures.
The Bundesrat is elected by the parliament, not directly by the people,
all of which makes Swiss politics relatively boring, not much material for comedians...
Astrologically, I see a certain similarity with Delphi in Greece,
as the center of (Wester) Europe in the case of Switzerland, north Germany, south Italy,
one of the axes in WWII, west is France, east is Austria.
And the country would be Leo according to legend (1 August 1291),
and also William Lilly lists Switzerland as Leo,
while the modern state of 1848 is Virgo, would have Venus in early Libra close to the MC:
Image from here (sorry, only in German, but use deepl.com to translate):
Die Schweiz - eine falsche Geburtszeit?
So Venus of Switzerland would be at a trine to Pluto and Sedna now...
Just what I know, let me color what is fairly widespread generally recognized in black,
what seems to me relatively straightforward extrapolation in blue
and what is more speculative or associative or at least not generally mentioned in red,
but the boundaries are somewhat floating...
Astronomically, the lunar nodes are at the intersections between the orbits of the earth around the sun
(or from the perspective of the earth of the apparent orbit of the sun around the earth)
and the orbit of the moon around the earth, to the degree that there is an orbital plane for the moon at all -
hence mean nodes and true nodes which are closer to reality.
In the immediate sense they are needed to calculate eclipses. Whenever sun and moon are both near the nodes,
they are also close in the sky, the moon is close to the orbit of the sun, and vice-versa.
Then at new moon the moon may pass between earth and sun, obscuring the sun partially or totally,
which is something that happens typically twice every year, one with the south node, once with the north node,
but is only visible at certain regions on the earth,
i.e. without prior knowledge something most people might never witness in their lives.
And at full moon, the earth may be in the path between sun and moon, obscuring the moon partially or totally,
with also happens typically twice every year, one with the south node, once with the north node,
but is then usually visible in very large area,
i.e. if you live in a place where there is often a clear sky and you do look up in the sky at night at full moon,
then you are likely to spot several lunar eclipses in your life time.
This means that in ancient times people maybe first noticed lunar eclipses,
and presumably not knowing much about celestial mechanics assumed some creature
would temporarily swallow the moon and then spit it out again.
With more experience, observing also solar eclipses, people probably noticed that lunar and solar eclipses
usually occurred close to each other, the full moon before or after a new moon,
with the sun being "swallowed" at one side of the sky, the one with the sun and then also the moon at new moon,
and the other one at full moon on the opposite side.
This probably lead to assuming that the swallowing was due to a creature that has maybe two heads or something like that,
like a snake/dragon* with head and tail.
Also via swallowing and given that the intestinal tract is something like a "snake" in the body,
the other end might be the anus of the creature.
* Remember that drakon in Greek was typically rather a snake, a creature without legs,
I posted links around that recently, don't remember in which thread, but just look it up in Wikipedia...
I am not sure how the relation of the nodes in astrology with reincarnation came about.
In a way you are eating you way through time, you grow by eating, get energy from it,
but at the same time "each bite" also brings you closer to the end...
Maybe something like this, and maybe going back to an "Age of Taurus":
In vedic astrology apparently the second house is related to the mouth and speech,
which partially similar to the view in the West, where the throat and neck are 2/Taurus,
but not speech (learned that about speech from wanda here recently).
At least in the West, the anus or at least the last part of the intestines would be attributed to Scorpio,
but not the buttocks, there there seem to be two different attributions in the West going back 2000 years,
to Sagittarius as prolongation of the thighs and to Libra because of symmetric perfectly round orbs
and in height near the symmetric kidneys, but that is an other topic.
So, maybe Taurus-Scorpio, which makes me think of holy cows in India and of the following:
A cow eats grass and produces dung, but the dung is then a good fertilizer, hence there is a cycle,
what is dirty stuff out an anus for most animals is good food for many plants.
Maybe in that line an idea of reincarnation emerged, the matter is recycled.
In India n.node and s.node are planets 8 and 9,
which might relate them to planet 8 and 9 in the West,
namely Uranus (ur-anus) and Neptune.
Also, there is some ambivalence between the nodes, since seen from the southern hemisphere the rising node
is not the n.node but the s.node, so which is which is somewhat of a matter of the point of view.
Similarly, Neptune was sighted by Galileo when observing the moons of Jupiter, he noted the dot in his journal,
but did not realize he had seen a planet, considered it a fixed star apparently,
so not so clear which planet was discovered first.
There is also the theme of consciousness and unconsciousness,
with the moon above the ecliptic being more consciousness
and hence the n.node rather being where one goes consciously
and the s.node where things sink back into unconsciousness.
In India, both nodes are considered rather "bad", both as animals that eat stuff and do not have lots of consciousness,
while in the West, the n.node is often considered the way to go, also where the tendency naturally goes in life,
with a shift from s.node to n.node themes as one grows older, and I think I can see that in my life.
But... in the analogy of the intestinal "snake", you cannot just eat, it also has to come out again,
so a certain balance is still needed.
Also, it is true that people usually do not have full control over mouth and anus, else there would be no fat people,
for example. Which may well be why both nodes are considered "bad" in India.
But there are also some more metaphysical aspects to the node.
They are in a way a Möbius strip, something that is both one and two at the same time, like also the yin-yang symbol.
If you look at the nodes as one animal, it is both itself and itself, a catdog
Also, topologically (in the mathematical sense), a human body if you neglect the nose would be a torus,
i.e. a donut/bagel, with the intestinal tract rather a hole in the body, not really inside,
only what permeates the skin/membranes in mouth/stomach/intestines.
Liz Greene about the nodes
in an article about the company birth chart of Astrodienst:
These mysterious points are often associated with "fate" because they represent the intersection points of the Sun's and Moon's orbits:
a combination of "destiny" (the Sun) and "embodiment" (the Moon).
A lot is maybe still a mystery...
What I see them is as gates, with somewhat of an instinctive side, too, and triggered when planets pass there,
so that some things that had been building up would be realized, in different ways, sometimes gently,
sometimes violently, and, again, only partially under control...
In the past I had seen the s.node in death charts, but more recently noticed that also the n.node seems to occur there or near there,
as from a certain age any step forward is close to the end, but with maybe the option of rebirth...
Maybe not the most carefully written post, but maybe there is something in it for some,
maybe a new helpful element in the interpretation...
Only noticed now: Lake Tahoe and the "Cal Nev" hotel there would be a Gemini theme
because of the state border California-Nevada right through the hotel,
and there is even water nearby, Lake Tahoe, so maybe in that sense a Sedna in Gemini theme...
That could put the book I am writing maybe closer to Sedna thematically, and, of course,
it will be interesting to see what happens in that criminal court case,
is about money which would also be a theme related to Sedna...
Reno, where the novel would play in 1960 is not directly at Lake Tahoe, but not far, only about 20 km...
Of course, as always, also mixed with other themes, Uranus in late Pisces for Marylin Monroe,
sun in late Pisces for Stormy Daniels, but via that also in Sextile to Sedna now,
and in the hypothesis as Sedna as main theme in these times,
she would trigger that by aspect to become prominent, plus of course is helped by Neptune now...
Eroğlu Kızlar Orkestrası: Riders On The Storm (The Doors Cover)
I think it was brought up by someone in the incubator forum
(of which I kept no copies, but would have been a woman as far as I recall)
that you could relate Sedna to digitalization because of her detached fingers - digits.
[I found at least a partial collection of the incubator forum in a backup in late November 2024.]
This provides in my view a link from the end/beginning of the zodiac (late Pisces and early Aries) to Sedna, as follows...
California is the end of the way West, ends at the ocean, as Jim Morrison remarked; he had hiked West like so many at the time,
inspired by Jack Kerouac and the like, but at Venice Beach, where the Doors began,
was the end of that path, exept "break on through to the other side".
The real movement turned virtual there, with movies, computers, the internet, and also elements of eastern religions
(are West across the Pacific from California), and likely more, you name it...
Since the end of the Zodiac is the end of Pisces, and since the astronomers who discovered Sedna were in California,
i.e. making Sedna itself one of the themes of the end of the path West,
there is in a way now an opportunity (Sextile) with Sedna in early Gemini to Neptune in late Pisces
and relatively soon in early Aries, plus other aspects...
That is basically the idea...
That is why Marilyn Monroe appears with her Uranus in late Pisces or Stormy Daniels with the sun there, or other things,
including me with Saturn in late Pisces as maybe a messenger,
with quite an eerie 3rd of 3 Saturn returns of the 2nd cycle of the Saturn returns in my life...
Polar lights have apparently been visible this night in many places in Switzerland (which is very unusual),
unfortunately I missed it...
Here are 19 photos:
Der helle Wahnsinn - Magische Polarlichter – grosses Spektakel über der Schweiz
Lots of interesting input for me...
I just remembered that traditionally Venus is exalted at 27° Pisces...
(and with Sedna in the hypothesis getting her domicile in Libra where Venus traditionally has one of hers...)
Quite generally, in my view there is a lot around sexuality in the myth of Sedna.
Her husband who turns out to be a bird could be seen as the perception of a virgin
who had never seen an excited naked man before and would describe his genitals as a "bird",
and then detaching from her father and becoming surrounded, the center,
in lots of "phalluses" in the form of the animals of the sea that admire her.
Certainly not the only way to read the myth
(for example the animals of the sea also as her children more indirectly from sex),
but at least in my view one that is relatively close at hand.
My father used to tell me that ancient Romans would take baths in mercury/quicksilver,
but stopped doing so because it made them infertile.
Greek Hermes, as already mentioned, mean "pillar" also with a sexual connotation,
at least in more ancient forms (before classical Greece) of the god not as an adolescent
but as a grown man with a beard.
But gradually to "Lake Tahoe"...
In the book "Poussière blonde" (Blonde Dust) the main character Pauline goes to Reno in 2000 to give farewell to the Mapes hotel,
finished in 1947 in Art Deco style (which seems to have gradually travelled west) when the main character was 8,
and in 2000 decided to tear it down.
The story plays in 2000 and 1960 with the encounter with Marilyn Monroe or "Mrs. Miller" at the time as wife of Arthur Miller,
but I am still very early in the book, rather boring to read for me...
Mapes Hotel - Wikipedia
The resort where the encounter of Stormy Daniels and Donald Trump would have been is the "Edgewood Tahoe Resort",
just barely in Nevada, about 150 meters from California, here's a map:
Edgewood Tahoe Resort · 180 Lake Pkwy, Stateline, NV 89449, Vereinigte Staaten
I could not determine the exact date of their (alleged) encounter in the hotel room, Getty Images has images of Trump for Sunday,
16 July at the celebrity golf tournament:
48 American Century Celebrity Golf Championship July 16 2006 Stock Photos, High-Res Pic...
Since that was a Sunday, the dinner and then visit to the hotel room of Trump might have been more likely already on Saturday,
so here is a chart for that evening; since they would have been talking first for about 2 hours
before Trump would have sort of blocked the way out (all in the words of Stormy Daniels),
I assumed that dinner was until about 9 PM and that it started at about 11 PM
(outside transits to her deposition 7 May 2024 in the "hush money" trial:
Not many aspects to Sedna.
There is a square of Sedna with Neptune, which rings with the current sextile,
and I noticed that the evening when I started with my book project with a clear "Hollywood" touch in Jan 2019
there was a Quintile between Sedna and Neptune, but of course Neptune-Sedna aspects last a long time...
Possibly, there would have been a sextile between Sedna and the AC (and thus a trine to the DC),
certainly there was a sextile to Priapus (opposite Lilith) and a trine to Lilith, with obviously sexual connotations.
To me the sextile aspect also has some sexual themes, is a division of the circle by six,
in German even the number 6 ("Sechs") is pronounced the same as "Sex" (for sexual intercourse).
I relate it also to the sixth planet Jupiter, also because Zeus was very sexually active
and also the almost perpetual quarrels between him and his wife were often about sexual themes,
like the most prominent one about the question of whether men or women have more fun during sex,
which poor Tiresias was forced to answer –
edited to add: a theme that Liz Greene attributes to Libra in "The Astrology of Fate",
also 6 is half 12, the middle of the Zodiac, balance...
But, of course, more immediately prominent would likely be the Pluto-Venus opposition at MC-DC,
at a square to the nodal axis at 28°36' Pisces (i.e. Venus also at a square to her point of exaltation.
Or Uranus near the AC or Priapus. And the moon in early Aries near the IC of the USA in the Sibly chart,
at the peak of a golden yod with Mars (in H6) and Jupiter (in H8) as its base -
an aspect that can be quite dogmatic or fixed or whatever you might call it.
I do not trust what Stormy Daniels says in detail not all that much (nor what Trump says anyways),
but maybe Sedna in the 2nd house ("body") would/could explain why she might have been more passive at that moment
than she would typically been from her nature?
(If the date was one day later, Sunday evening, the moon would be at 17.x° Aries instead,
otherwise practically the same chart.)
Here is a link to her deposition 7 May 2024 at the "hush money" trial in NYC (pdf at the NY Times):
https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/7d5bbe6f331fe8f9/4c926ee0-full.pdf
Merkur wurde am 2. April kurz nach Mitternacht auf 27°13' Widder rückläufig, was bei Kafka nominell
(RR DD Geburtszeit 07:00)
sehr nahe beim MC gewesen wäre (27°55' Widder),
und am kommenden Montag 13. Mai um 11:02 geht Merkur aus der Schattenphase raus.
Thinking back about the horses in London, also in light of quite some "horse themes" in the Sedna thread,
plus swords and knives that seem to have occurred in many news recently, I was thinking about Neptune/Poseidon again
The sword of Damokles** was hanging from a horse's hair above the head of Damokles so that even a blow of wind could have killed him,
so again a reference to Poseidon, in mythology the inventor of horse races.
But why exactly with Neptune late in his domain***, I could not tell.
It should also be mentioned that Poseidon occurs very prominently around myths in ancient Crete (Minoan culture),
like the white divine bull emerging from the sea that was given by Poseidon to King Minos to sacrifice,
but because Minos tried to fool Poseidon by sacrificing a regular white bull, the Minotaurus came about,
and generally Minoan culture was about bulls, was Age of Taurus
(ended about 1500 BCE with the volcano eruption of Santorini when the first start of the constellation Aries passed the spring equinox),
so possibly also related to the recent Jupiter-Uranus conjunction, and likely other things.....
At maybe the most fundamental core, knives and swords would maybe be connected to a crescent in the sky,
twice each month near new moon and most strikingly just before and after a total solar eclipse****,
where the crescent can even span more than the limit of half the circle (180°) for the moon,
so maybe energy released at the eclipse that manifested in other current themes?
* Stormy Daniels is a horse rider,
see The Equestrian Side Few Know
or The horse wars of Stormy Daniels ,
the main character in the novel "Poussière blonde" (Blonde Dust) is horse doctor
and she meets Marilyn Monroe at a time (1960) when she married to writer Arthur Miller,
and her last finished movie "The Misfits" (shot in 1960), written by Arthur Miller,
is about horses and cowboys and the reality then.
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damocles
*** Edit: I forgot about Scheat... That would certainly add to the themes here...
**** Edit: I also forgot about Chiron on the eclipse, which would bring horses and knives together,
plus I probably also forgot some more things that were mentioned earlier...
Makes me think of Mount Zion (c.f. Alcyone and Sedna Gemini ingress),
which presumably would have been the temple mountain in the past*,
from where Mohammed took off to the heavens on the supernatural flying horse Buraq...
Isra' and Mi'raj - Wikipedia
Buraq - Wikipedia
* https://www.israeltravelcentre.com....unt Zion has,ancient Jerusalem's Western Hill.
Mount Zion is a hill in Jerusalem, located just outside the walls of the Old City.
The term Mount Zion has been used in the Hebrew Bible first for the City of David
(2 Samuel 5:7, 1 Chronicles 11:5; 1 Kings 8:1, 2 Chronicles 5:2) and later for the Temple Mount,
but its meaning has shifted and it is now used as the name of ancient Jerusalem's Western Hill.
I think the following is related to recent events "in the skies", but would not know where to place it most prominently,
so under "Everything else" for now...
Very likely related to Neptune in late Pisces since the symbol for the wave function Psi Ψ is very similar to the glyph for Neptune ♆,
which was I think by Schrödinger's choice, but did not look that up.
Anyways, being a physicist, it always seemed most likely
that quantum effects would play the major role regarding anything in the brain that is really self-aware,
and it seems that recently (published 19 April 2024) in a journal on physical chemistry
something has been found that I found worth sharing.
Obviously these days there are lots of announcements, and finding that in a Youtube video, albeit by Sabine Hossenfelder,
does usually not lead me to share it further, as statistically the chance of it being relevant is very small.
The finding is loosely related to a hypothesis by Roger Penrose that very small tube-like structures in the brain
that compose to tubes and those again to tubes would feature quantum effects and those would be closely related to human consciousness.
Maintaining quantum correlations in such a warm organic environment seems very difficult,
but apparently now something of a quantum effect has been found, one that would be very robust towards the environment...
Here's the Youtube video:
Here the publication:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jpcb.3c07936
And this is Roger Penrose in the ADB, no birth time:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Penrose,_Roger
For noon birth time his moon is a 5°16' Gemini, i.e. if he was born earlier maybe even close to Sedna now,
but that is just speculation...
Probably too early so say more, and would depend on what will happen in the coming years
whether coming back to this moment would make sense...
If there was something to it, it would in a way be relieving,
because then it would become even clearer that current "AI" is an exaggeration,
will in that way not replace humans, but on the other hand
such structures might later be copied by humans and then things would look different,
but also this is just speculation so far...
I noticed that for me with currently transiting Neptune ♆ on my natal Saturn ♄,
two key concepts of quantum mechanics currently meet,
Schrödinger's wave function 𝛹 (Psi) and Plank's quantum of action ħ (h bar),
both the wavelike nature of the world and that once you "look" nature comes in well-defined units.
So, maybe..., hopefully..., with the upcoming Saturn-Neptune conjunctions of 2025 and 2026,
there would be some real change to come out around that...? ... around that likely still in some ways eternal riddle...?
For me as a physicist, it has definitely been very boring regarding new discoveries in my life,
the standard model of particle physics dates back to the 1960s and since then nothing really new has been found...
Hm, I just noticed/remembered that Sedna entered Taurus around the year I was born, 1966,
while the standard model was completed around 1967*, and recently Sedna moved into Gemini,
maybe also related to that theme, considering that consciousness/thinking would have some relation to Gemini...?
I remain curious...
... and I hope this is more than just an "illusion" ("Neptune"),
but maybe more the current view of "reality" ("Saturn") would be an "illusion"...?
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model#Historical_background
In 1961, Sheldon Glashow combined the electromagnetic and weak interactions.
In 1967 Steven Weinberg and Abdus Salam incorporated the Higgs mechanism into Glashow's electroweak interaction,
giving it its modern form.
(In 1979 the three got the Nobel Prize for that, in 1995 the top quark was experimentally confirmed, around 2012 the Higgs particle...)
Here's the chart for the horses again, this time with the 1066 chart outside
(hence roughly the inverse chart than in the opening post with 1066 inside and big ben outside):
Nicolas Campion about the time of the 1066 chart
(Charles the Great was also the first I was thinking of because was on Christmas):
We have no idea what time [William I] was crowned,
although it has been argued that he would have been crowned at noon for symbolic reasons.
However, as with the coronation of Edgar, there si no reason why William should have been crowned at noon,
when Charlemagne, the great model for medieval monarchy, was crowned at morning mass.
Chart 351 is set for William's coronation on 25 December 1066
and in the absence of accurate information, for 12.00 noon LMT.
natal Neptune in 12 very close to Jupiter-Uranus of the event,
I guess "3 horses" (Neptune, Jupiter, 12th house) maybe already from that.
But also other interesting correlations...
etherea said (Wed 15 May 2024 06:59:59 CEST):
Well, @xphi, we have the national anthem with music by Sir Hubert Parry, using a poem written by William Blake,
which includes the line, "...till we shall build Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land".
This land has always had odd things scripted in: the 1066 chart sports an intercepted Pisces in the huge 12h,
and under-the-surface Pluto there, alongside Moon, both flanking the entry and exit to the sign.
The city is full of symbolism of secret orders and fraternities which continue today after centuries of their original inception,
and much goes on out of public view that is hushed up.
Every now and then, something starts to nearly surface and the public can see "odd-ness".
The very prominent weirdness was the hooded, robed figure at the funeral service for QE2,
visible on TV but whom nobody could identify or explain, as well as (what some claim)
was Diana's voice saying over the TV (and interrupting the male voice-over)
"death is irreversible and the fact that she's trapped."
There was much consternation and discussion about it.
When alive, Diana herself claimed "they are not human" - make of that what you will,
but clearly there was a massive chasm of understanding between that family and herself
and that phrase is also very weird.
That funeral was, of course, at Westminster, so should be present and evident in the chart.
I will look later to see what was going on at the exact time.
Thanks for the info
England/GB is probably something I do not know all that much about
would not have expected William Blake in the national anthem,
and I guess the "terraforming" of New Zealand in the past would also fit in with that...
I still have a book from 2010 titled "Human Race Get Off Your Knees: The Lion Sleeps No More" by David Icke,
but never read it, where I guess (not sure if in the end intended as metaphorically or literally)
also British royals would be extraterrestrial lizards...
The title seem also uranian when I think about it now, is similar to how Kant described Enlightenment,
and Blake would be around there...
The Doors...
For me lately and already for something like maybe 3 years a quite present theme...
[In reply to annait's posts that brought up Maria Schneider in "The Last Tango"
when Sedna would have transited over her natal moon at 3° Taurus if her nominally RR AA birth time was accurate.]
I have done a little research regarding the birth data of Maria Schneider, as there has been some controversy.
Via the French Wikipedia entry for her I found this:
* https://deces.matchid.io/id/qvW7SvrKvG24
which seems to be based on official documents,
see https://deces.matchid.io/about#qui-sommes-nous
From that I get:
- Birth date: 27 March 1952
- Arrondissement [at birth (as well as at death)]: 15e (Paris, France)
- First names: Maria Helene
[- Death date: 3 February 2011]
[Note that since her date of death is certain from various new articles,
this is almost certainly the record for the famous actress Maria Schneider and not for anybody else.]
It is not so sure from my perspective if the birth time of 9 PM is really reliable,
since at least on one of its origins might go back to a birth certificate
of a "Marie-Christine Madeleine Schneider" born 27 February in the 14th arrondissement (not the 15th), see source notes at ADB:
* https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Schneider,_Maria
* ADB: Seems that the indicated birth name of "Marie-Christine Madeleine Schneider" would be wrong,
that would apparently be based on the wrong birth certificate (see above),
and at least at time of death her first names were "Maria Helene"
(the last name Schneider would be correct, the last name of her mother, Marie Christine Schneider,
who was not married to the father Daniel Gélin when she got her child).
* AstroSeek: Lists 27 February 1952, which would be wrong
And here is a chart for the 1970s in France (1 Jan 1970 midnight) with Maria Schneider outside:
There is the axis with Saturn at 2° Taurus (already conjunct Sedna) in 8,
and opposite Jupiter at 2° Scorpio in 2. And probably also worth noting the Mars-n.node conjunction in the 6th house.
In my feeling, everyday danger also of a sexual kind towards women was quite frequent in daily life ("6th house"),
at least judging from all the things I have seen from the 1970s, and making a movie despite all the art,
is also daily work ("6th house") and the "burro" incident was apparently only partially planned much in advance.
I was also thinking about "burro" in Italian meaning "butter" but "donkey" in Spanish, hence related to Saturn,
and reminding me of Apuleus' "The Golden Ass", etc.
And not to forget, in the 1970s chart Pluto at the end of 12 at the AC, and Chiron early in 7...
But, yes, very interesting the perspective with Sedna in the play...
To me personally there was a distinct change after the discovery in 2003/2004 regarding Sedna in my chart (appeared at my n.node),
but conversely, in my general hypothesis meanings and names of new objects would try to match past events, too,
although they could not get it right everywhere, the more central and public themes were, the more likely.
Really difficult to say... for example, I could also imagine Kafka without Pluto, since he already had Saturn in early Gemini,
but Pluto also there does also seem to fit into the theme,
esp. the "prophetic" angles there regarding the 3rd Reich that certainly was influenced by
I did not know Maria Schreiber besides that her name sounded familiar to me,
and in retrospect I only saw one movie with her prominently in it "professione: reporter",
and also practically no movies with Marlon Brando, both do not appeal much to me personally,
but maybe I will watch the last tango in the coming weeks or so...
PS: I just noticed that Lilith of the 1970s would be close to the nominal MC of Maria Schneider...
Some contemporary observations regarding a "world split"...
US Secretary of State Blinken has announced plans to use confiscated money to pay for rebuilding the Ukraine after the war.
That is not a completely new procedure, I guess, but with a country the size of Russia it rather seems.
And money matters are where the fun/joking stops (at least in a German proverb):
If whether you get back the money you put on a bank depends on politics,
you will very likely choose a bank that would not do that with your money,
hence such a political move by the US could well drive BRICS more, if it needs that.
(Would in my hypothesis be (also) a Sedna in Gemini theme because of her similarity with Venus ("money"),
domicile Libra, which is about trade, as well as Gemini, plus the split into two "twin" money systems as a Gemini theme.)
China seems to be heavily supporting Russia more and more,
for example export of high precision CNC machines has increased tenfold since the beginning of the war in the Ukraine,
plus increased exports of other things that can be used to make weapons ("dual use").
But I am by far not an expert on foreign affairs, I guess a lot is "bean counting" there,
which reminds me of Kafka's parable on the Greek sea god Poseidon:
English translation: http://read.aimeepong.com/parables/7/
German original: https://www.textlog.de/kafka/erzaehlungen/nachlass/poseidon
etherea said (Thu 16 May 2024 13:21:21 CEST):
An aside ref. the Midday coronation issue: it has always been a traditional start time for coronations here
(QE2's funeral service at Westminster Abbey started at the same time),
so although there is nothing written down it is more likely than not
that this was the exact coronation time for William 1st.
We also have coming up to 1,000 years of observation as to how well and precisely the chart works,
and it always does, but I take Campion's point.
As far as I remember in the case of Charlemagne it is at least a possibility that the pope tricked Charlemagne when at the morning mass,
produced the crown and put it on his head, and Charlemagne could probably not say no in that situation, was the coronation to "Roman Emperor",
so maybe an event independent of other traditions.
Might be interesting to know, for example, how ancient Egyptians did it with their pharaohs, ~ "sun gods"...
I like the idea of an "island" of Pisces in a larger 12th house of the 1066 chart...
Reminds me of Avalon (and besides that, my first thought around England and swords had been Arthur anyways)...
Avalon - Wikipedia
Avalon (/ˈævəlɒn/)[note 1] is a mythical island featured in the Arthurian legend.
It first appeared in Geoffrey of Monmouth's 1136 Historia Regum Britanniae as a place of magic
where King Arthur's sword Excalibur was made and later where Arthur was taken to recover from being gravely wounded at the Battle of Camlann.
Since then, the island has become a symbol of Arthurian mythology, similar to Arthur's castle of Camelot.
By the way, here is an artistic take by me (2011) on the Mórrígan (c.f. Morgan Le Fay),
playing with slightly different meanings depending on accent on "mor",
and reminds me a bit of Avalon, also with the "movie"/"photo" association...
xphi... said (Sun 28 Apr 2024 11:46:26 CEST):
Before going to the botanical garden, I had been at the Orell Füssli bookstore near Bellevue and bought 3 books,
in retrospect astonishingly all three in different languages:
- The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
- Kafka von Tag zu Tag (Kafka day by day) by Rainer Stach
- Poussière blonde (Blonde Dust) by Tatiana de Rosnay
In the evening I was almost mesmerized that one channel would actually show a movie
that would sort of be categorized as (close to) "really good" in my personal book,
"Rashomon" by Akira Kurosawa of 1950, and I actually watched it,
with original sound and subtitles (in French, was on France 4, part of "culture box"),
the opening scene as often in his movies has tons of rain...
And late in the evening I started to read in The Great Gatsby...
Going back to the afternoon when Sedna went into Gemini, this time to the second book,
more precisely with focus on Kafka's "The Castle" (and Milena).
This time based on the diaries and the criticial edition of the castle edited by Malcom Pasley (orig. published 1 May 1982, Fischer)...
After a breakdown in the second week of January 1922
(the second breakdown after 1920, and for all that it appears not having written in between),
he got permission by his employer 27 Jan 1922 to go to Spindlermühle in the mountains to recover,
and went there the same day, was a Friday.
It seems very much that he then started with a different (first) beginning of the castle,
one where it was much more a modern environment, and it was written with pencil,
which Kafka also in at least one other occasion did only when he just arrived somewhere,
apparently just for practical reasons.
To me that is most likely not the beginning of the novel, yet.
In the night after that evening, actually at 00:47:52 there was a new moon
(remember the Sabian Symbol for 26 Pisces "A new moon that divides its influences"?):
Note that in 1922 there was no Pluto or Lilith or Chiron known, yet,
while the newest planet was Neptune (and shown asteroids 75/100/105 were already found).
Neptune in the middle of Leo at the MC
(and taking the nominal RR DD birth time of 07:00 for Kafka, right on his AC).
So the goal, the "castle" would be Neptune in Leo, an ivory tower that is unreachable,
and produces strange administrative outcomes and on the telephone is not reliable at all.
Mars in the first house would probably mean that people would often be mistrustful and rather hostile,
at least to men (Mars).
Key to me was via Malcom Pasley's edition the diary entries two days later, 29 Jan 1922,
as he writes written at the table of the actors society (alone) I presume in the hotel he stayed in,
which mirror the basic setup and beginning of "The Castle",
the bridge he did not even reach in reality that day, attacks on the way in the snow in the evening, etc.
And he also imagines how it would be if M. (Milena Jesenská/Pollak) would be there.
To me this means that he started the now known beginning of "The Castle" after that.
Here is a chart for Neptune again at the MC just a bit after midnight (00:30),
and with the moon just into Pisces.
Just my feeling around these things including the "Czech" side of it, and also of writing...
For completeness I have also attached a new moon chart to this post for the previous new moon,
the one for the pencil beginning, for Prague as he was very likely there then,
that new moon would presumably mirror that beginning more.
The link to Sedna would maybe be that it would now be possible to "sink down" far enough
to see things more clearly regarding the novel. But maybe not just that.
Sedna was at a trine to Neptune, quite closely, and at least for new moon at the cusp of the 6th house,
which might(!) mirror some of his encounters with bureaucracy,
and that he would always talk about a fight/battle (German "Kampf") he was leading...
But maybe with more time, insights will also evolve.
Certainly also very sad the circumstances of the beginning of the novel,
sort of the archetype of the "human condition" as driving force of (at least male-created) art,
for which there is astonishingly not even a German equivalent expression...
.xphi said (Sat 28 Oct 2023 14:10:43 CEST):
Not much later, I guess already before 7 July [edit in quote: 2023], I also had the idea of translating the site also to "easy",
create a version that would be much easier to read for people who do not know all the things I know from various fields from "physics to astrology".
The idea was to create annotated versions (Englisch and German),
where I would usually quote a short paragraph from the original and then add some context, background, sources, and so on.
So far that is just the idea, but it would presumably also fit the mythology of Gemini.
Liz Greene in "The Astrology of Fate" mentions the myth of Leda and the swan (Zeus in disguise).
She [edit: Leda, not Liz Greene] laid two eggs, with two children in each, so a 2+2 symbolism, too.
One of the children was Helena (c.f. Illiad, Trojan War), one was Clytemnestra, and from the other egg Castor+Pollux.
I am not sure at the moment how it really was, but I remember that Liz Greene also saw a duality of mortal/immortal there,
with two mortal and two immortal? So maybe the current version of the site more "for the gods",
the easy version "for mortals", for "the rest of us"?
[...]
English:
https://www.exactphilosophy.net/
German:
https://www.exactphilosophy.net/index-de.html
I did try about 20 days ago to start a translation of my website to "easy", but what came out of it then did not feel good enough.
Now, to me unexpectedly, I tried again today at noon and this time seems like something emerged that could stay and grow...
In retrospect maybe not so unexpectedly, because of the previous post around how/when Kafka started the castle
(at least in my view a quite unparalleled novel, even with Kafka/Prague standards),
so maybe some essence of Kafka managed to propel me a bit further...?
I think I mentioned elsewhere that the ancient Greeks had a saying that the beginning is half of the whole...
I guess with Zeus ("Jupiter") as their highest god, they did not necessarily mean much detailed conscious work,
but maybe more like Zeus, do many things, relax, ponder, and then at the right moment act...
The good moment was called "Kairos" by the ancient Greeks, from "hand", like also "Chiron",
which is again a related theme in astrology (Chiron - centaurs - Sagittarius - domicile of Jupiter).
Obviously also for astrologers the good moment is key, especially for literal births of people...
(By the way, as mentioned before some times, in science time is just an axis,
there is no theory I know of that would give different moments in time different meanings,
and especially no concept that a specific moment in time when something emergd would shape the outcome,
but maybe I am looking at this the wrong way...
But maybe simply such a concept is lacking in science?)
Here is the chart, precision about ±3 min, if wrong started rather a bit later than 12 pm than earlier:
Jupiter ("Kairos"?) with Sun behind Sedna in 10 (and also Venus a bit furher behind), all at a trine to Pluto in 6.
So, quite possibly something I would invest work ("6") and which would be public ("10").
And then the sextiles to Neptune, in 8 and Saturn also in 8, hence maybe thorough enough
and also dreamy/fascinating while still accessible?
The IC is at the n.node of Kafka, so going the opposite way, sort of a next "life"...
Mercury at the MC is probably good for writing, while Moon at the s.node in 3 seems a bit like a Sedna-theme related to the communication...
Mars/Chiron/n.node in Aries in 9, which seems good related to the "philosophy" in my website exactphilosophy.net,
and my MC is at 12 Aries, my Moon at 17 Aries... Last but not least, the 3 lunar asteroids together in the 1st house,
at the AC, just passing by as I made the apparent breakthrough in about 10 minutes...
I am not sure if anybody followed or is interested at all, but I hope the result,
the easy website might be something for many, including also astrologers...
Here is the most recent new moon (for where I live, near Zürich), AC early Taurus,
where recently Mercury transited over, but otherwise does not directly speak much to me,
except maybe that the MC is in the middle of Capricorn,
which I guess would emphasize MC with more status relevance...
And the new moon was close to my n.node at 21.x° Taurus.
Anyways, here's the beginning, at least the first few paragraphs, there is already a bit more,
but may well take quite some time until there is really something there, will see...
(The easy text did not all evolve just today, in a slightly different formulation and presentation already from about 20 days ago,
but again part of I guess "the beginning is half of the whole", at least for me always is crucial to have a good beginning,
then continuing is fun...
[I removed the last edition of my website with some sort of "easy" section
21 June 2024 in the late evening (git commit time 23:15 CEST).]
Nothing more to say for the time being, this afternoon I went to an art exhibition near Basel at the Fondation Beyeler
without having planned that at all, just maybe prolong the moment a bit more.
The art sculptures and paintings did not impress me much, except maybe that monster washing machine,
but in one room there was something special,
a large square room and in the middle something with white round walls that reminded me of an igloo,
with four entrances on each "side", each first going along an inner wall, then inside, and inside also white,
and in four segments along the walls books, quite an interesting collection, to me mirrors Sedna in Gemini,
even though the idea of the artist who provided the books was a stone structure in Italy to protect from wind,
but the artist who made the walls apparently was somehow inspired by current times...
Artists were Federico Campagna (books) and don't remember the other, was a woman, born ca. 1979...
Anyways, maybe some other time again, is just so that I cannot write just a little, usually can't be "half pregnant".
roja said:
I’m sorry, but what the actual fuck are you on about?
"Elementary, my dear Watson..."
Sedna in Gemini (since about 3 weeks):
Sedna - Inuit - igloo
Gemini - writing - library
And the indirect light also gave the impression of being under water (Sedna - under water at end of her myths).
In case the question was also about my two previous posts yesterday...
Kafka
To me that is what is called a "seminal" finding, explains what the mysterious unreachable castle
in Kafka's 3rd novel "The Castle" ("Das Schloss") is.
- First later unused beginning of the novel 27 Jan 1922, probably before new moon.
- New moon 28 Jan a bit about midnight, with Neptune at the MC in the middle of Leo, and at a trine to Sedna (and s.node).
- Diary entries 29 Jan that sketch out the main themes for the final beginning of the novel (including how it would be with Milena there,
in the novel later very thinly veiled in the form of Frieda).
- After that, I presume 29 Jan or even early 30 Jan with maybe again Neptune at the MC, final beginning of the novel.
- Sources had been mentioned.
Hence, in a nutshell, the castle is:
Neptune in Leo at the MC, plus trine Sedna/s.node in Aries
In mythology the Greek sea god Poseidon was said to have a golden (Leo/Fire) palace under the sea (Neptune and Sedna under the sea).
Translation of my website to "easy"
When Sedna first entered Gemini for a while last year, I translated my website from English to German
So my website split into two parts, one English, one German, two twins, a Gemini theme.
More details further above...
About 3 weeks after Sedna's final entry into Gemini this year, I started with a translation to "easy",
with the intention to do it (if I go on with it) both in English and German.
That is again a Gemini theme, c.f. Liz Greene in "The Astrology of Fate" about the star sign Gemini,
where she mentions the myth around Leda and the swan, of which two eggs came, out of each two children,
total 4, 2 male, 2 female, 2 mortal, 2 immortal.
The easy version of my website could be described as "for mortals",
hopefully somewhat accessible for "regular people",
while the currently published "not easy" version would be rather for the gods,
at least since more than 20 years nobody got the hang of it...
etherea said (Sun 19 May 2024 16:55:05 CEST):
The recent conjunction of Jupiter/Sun took place on Fixed Star Algol,
so whilst many were crowing about 'luckiest day of the year',
I don't think they were looking at the totality of the picture - or the astro-map.
Technically not really, was more than 1° away, but the aspect figure reminds already a lot of Feb 2026,
Neptune and Pluto already about there, Uranus' place then now taken by Jupiter-Sun, and Saturn on the way...
2019 had Sedna on Algol, very closely (I think about 1' away only),
for me Sedna+Algol were even at the AC of my solar return in summer 2019,
and there you have it, Covid escaped*, my parents died in winter 2019/2020, ...
* Most likely escaped, Wuhan is generally too much north for developing new variants in the wild,
just less probable there, and with Gibbs' rule of no coincidences, a lab that does such research nearby,
not pointed out by the US because involved themselves, is the most likely source.
etherea said (Sun 19 May 2024 16:55:05 CEST):
Sunak crossing 'red lines' in military terms, leading to Andrew Bridgen announcing that essentially,
UK is at war with Russia and UK Govt will get around to telling the public sometime in July or August;
27 Dec 2021 I opened a thread at the astro.com forum originally titled (translated from German) "Start of WW3 in the Ukraine?",
which apparently seemed very remote to people back then...
I guess everybody here had once seen the Russian propaganda video where they would drop one of their super huge atomic bombs
into the sea and it would create a (somewhat radioactive) flood wave all over GB?
Seems remote even to me, but is arguably a theme that might even match the Saturn-Neptune conjunction plus other aspects,
which is probably why the USA are rather trying to sit things out, to keep Russia occupied in the Ukraine,
neither let them win nor loose, at least my impression/guess...
In terms of astrological ages, I would hope that waiting until about 2044 might do,
assuming the age would start then (1/12 of the precession cycle since the first star of the constellation of Pisces,
Arisha, crossed the spring equinox), aquarian reason would become dominant over piscean boundlessness,
and hoping that the climate would still essentially survive,
but maybe already Neptune in Aries would reduce the boundlessness?
Obviously a lot of propaganda in the video below, but still...
etherea said (Mon 20 May 2024 16:17:04 CEST):
Especially with the Sun, I allow a 3degree orb for a fixed star of this magnitude -
I know every astrologer differs with orb allowances
What do you use for the MC? Asking because for Trump is nominally just a little bit more than 1°...
I wonder if he already sent someone to order a clone army...
PS: Around Kafka: The Neptune at the MC of the new moon of Jan 1922 would also have been close to the (drum rolls...)
Sun-Neptune conjunction in Leo of Milena Jesenská...
Sad story, especially with his tuberculosis there was no chance, not sure if otherwise...
And (I know, nobody will get what I mean with that) the new moon of Jan 2019 had almost the same houses as the one of Jan 1922,
just nothing at the MC, no Neptune or other common object, except just my own natal sun, if that counts)...
(no birthtime)
Milena Jesenská - Birth Chart, Horoscope | Astro-Seek.com
xphi... said (Sat 30 Mar 2024 13:08:44 CET):
Friendly reminder to maybe include Sedna into mundane astrological considerations (not only,
but as a major factor, in my hypothesis the strongest mundane factor in these times, but to be seen).
Oh well, how naive could I have been (once more) when I wrote that...
Just when I did not expect anything any more for the time being...
Sedna is approaching Kafka's Pluto in early Gemini and Kafka's anniversary of 100 years after his death is also approaching (he died 3 June 1924)...
Now, tonite under interesting circumstances I just remembered that there is a Sabian Symbol
that goes like "a lost opportunity regained in imagination" and thus was thinking about Kafka and "The Castle" and also the other novels he wrote,
which transpose things the did not do in real life, from emigration to the USA ("America")
to getting really together with Milena Jesenská ("The Castle")...
According to Freud, culture would be redirecting the sexual drive from actually doing it to culture,
to creating things, actually I think that was even how he defined culture...
o me that would be very much a Gemini theme and hence also currently one with Sedna related to it,
besides of course also planets close by at the moment...
But back to Kafka for a second: That Sabian Symbol is for 27 Aries.
And his nominal birth time of 7 AM at the ADB (RR DD)
would put his MC just one degree ahead,
so it could very well be that the time would be quite closely correct,
just a few minutes off to give an MC between 26 and 27 Aries...
[The above link is to Freud's entry in the Astrodatabank,
not to Kafka's — freudian slip?
]
And back to Sedna in Gemini globally: One would expect cultural advances,
sort of more "through gravity", things sinking first down like Sedna,
and then cultural creations created "by the fingers" detaching and swimming around...
Something like that, like no sign perfect, but possibly some real advances of a kind that humanity could really need...
And, personal note, maybe I have a relatively good idea for some detached fingers from my side,
but probably will first take some more sinking down, will have to wait till they emerge,
at least that is what I imagine...
Well, "on verra"...
xphi... said (Fri 24 May 2024 00:24:35 CEST):
Sedna is approaching Kafka's Pluto in early Gemini
and Kafka's anniversary of 100 years after his death is also approaching (he died 3 June 1924)...
The Jupiter-Saturn conjunction of 21 Dec 2020 was at 0°29'10" Aquarius,
Sedna will pass at a trine to that point 3 June 2024 (not calculated exact time, calendar date could also be 2 June).
Kafka's Pluto was at 0°38' 25" Gemini, a conjunction with Sedna will be about 15 June 2024...
As I am writing this, Venus is at 0°30'09", very close trine to the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction point and soon over Kafka's Pluto...
And, of course, a conjunction of Sedna and Venus is a meeting of two objects with similar themes in my hypothesis,
where Sedna would have her domicile in Libra where Venus trad. has one of her two domiciles.
Jupiter will be at about 0°29' Gemini ca. 28 May 2024, around 0°38' Gemini the same day...
Anyways, I guess multiple factors that come together define themes that you can then observe especially in mundane events.
I presume that would be the part of the forum rules
(emphasis mine):
Forum Rules
[...]
Please do not post:
[...];
Spam, self-advertisements, or content that is likely to alarm or offend other members
i.e. shaming, intimidatory remarks, belittling or harassing remarks, inciting of violence,
paedophilia imagery or suggestions, pornography, sexualised insults, ad-hominem abuse, etc.
When you think you have seen it all...
[In the following replies I was maybe too nice and ready to compromise in light of the crazy rules –
I would definitely have made a difference between commercial sites (sell something, earn from ads, etc.)
and sites by individuals or small groups that simply provide interesting material for free.]
What qualifies as "self-advertisement" or "self-promotion", esp. in contrast to promoting an (astrological) idea
that seems to reflect a lot in people's lives and/or mundane affairs -
which you incidentally had or found because you are generally doing such research -
and are trying to get more people interested in by writing about it -
i.e. mainly to give the idea a boost, not so much yourself?
etherea said (Fri 24 May 2024 20:14:17 CEST):
Promoting astro ideas goes happily into the forum thread discussions.
Promotion of one's website, channel, events, seminars, etc = self-promotion or self-advertisement.
So a link to, say, an article about an astrological idea one had on one's own website would be considered self-promotion / self-advertisement,
I guess (independently of whether the linked site would be in any ways commercial ($$$)).
etherea said (Fri 24 May 2024 20:14:17 CEST):
Please note:
you will still be welcome to post links to your channel/site/event page,
but not in the thread discussions - as outlined in Post no.1 of this thread.
Not quite, if I understand correctly, only if on that "channel/site/event page" there would be a link back to this forum.
Anyways, to me personally, since I had in the past on the astro.com forum and before that on Usenet posted links to my website etc.,
and it had practically zero effect since more than 20 years, I think I rarely if ever did that here,
I figured that in the extremely unlikely case anything I would bring up here would "catch fire" here,
that then people would be smart enough to look at my profile or ask me something via PM, etc.
(But is quite surreal to write a lot about Sedna into Gemini and then in other discussions
when Venus or Jupiter etc. enter Gemini, that nobody even mentions Sedna on the side,
quite the contrary of "catching fire", but I guess maybe I am the stupid one in any case,
either where Sedna is does not matter or writing about it does not reach anybody except very shortly when bringing it up...)
etherea said (Sat 25 May 2024 21:22:19 CEST):
This isn't quite true
I wrote on May 18th (in the Jupiter/Gemini thread in the General & Psychological section)
about Sedna in Gemini in relation to the Jupiter/Mercury energies, and "letting go of the smallness".
Thanks a lot, found it (#25)!
etherea said (Sat 25 May 2024 21:22:19 CEST):
However, if you wish to see more of something in a thread such as you mention,
I am sure the other members would welcome your contribution.They
may not have been following the dedicated thread you started on Sedna....?
I have spent so many years doing this and that after people told me that probably I should do this and that
(even wrote a book as someone on Usenet once suggested), but the effect was pretty much zero,
something like what you did in the Jupiter/Gemini thread has been very, very much the exception,
almost never happened (at least not in a different thread)
as far as I can tell nothing I ever brought up has stuck in astrology beyond maybe some fragments for some individuals,
which I find is a pity, because I often think some findings would be really important,
also for public recognition of astrology...
But I think it just does not work that way with me and/or maybe simply with the things I "discovered",
consequently doing less might be better in the end (or maybe do something else than ever before,
but probably less is better).
Maybe just my dream, but I dream of people coming (via Google or whatever) to some of my findings,
that they would embrace some things from them and carry them on, and so on indirectly,
is maybe more a Leo theme (my sun) plus maybe also my Saturn/Chiron in late Pisces,
sort of in the line of "the king is dead, long live the king",
that it will be like with the barren castle of the Grail saga, or Sleeping Beauty's castle,
that things won't be successful in my lifetime, passed on between lives.
But wrong thread for that, only marginally related to the theme of this thread,
but thanks for having replied to that part of my previous reply...
Jan Martin said (Sat 25 May 2024 21:48:48 CEST):
The forum of Astro Seek closed a few months ago, another big forum with a 5-digit number of discussion threads.
That's interesting, especially as I think they first started the website with the idea of people searching for partners,
first only in Czech, I think, ... ah, in Czech they still have a forum...
https://diskuze.najdise.cz
(najdi se = ~ find each other, hence then in English "astro seek")
Anyways, I find the approach with "cross-links" not generally a bad idea.
In old times in the Internet there were "rings" of links, where you go from one site in the ring to the next,
was before search engines became dominant, and astro.com had a link exchange,
where you could have listed your website with a short description in astro.com's links area
and in exchange you put a link to astro.com on your website.
What I don't know is whether links in webpages still lead to much visibility in search engines today,
maybe references in social media have more weight, but within a smaller community of astrologers such links could have an effect,
maybe a revival, especially as there would be less and less possibilities to exchange ideas globally with other astrologers,
but I am really bad at promotion/marketing, so my estimation is maybe not very reliable...
([etherea] in reply to Jan Martin: )
etherea said (Sat 25 May 2024 22:05:41 CEST):
The new section isn't yet up on the site and when it is, you will have a week's Grace Period
to make your amendments which info again, is in the first post.
Do you mean just recent posts at that point in time or history of past posts further back?
At least now you can only edit your own posts for a certain time.
Tia said (Sun 26 May 2024 01:10:20 CEST):
Mars is now on the total solar eclipse degree activating his own eclipse 😳as Jupiter ingresses into Gemini!
I think that this Jupiter transit will be karmic we will be taking the energy of the eclipse with us.
Aries and Gemini sextile so hopefully it will be positive for now and but not so positive
when the nodes move into Pisces.
If you were procrastinating on taking action on anything,
now is go time also while we still have the empowering trine from Pluto things are going to get challenging later.
I’m also saying this to myself because Jupiter in Taurus was like walking through mud
while trying to avoid Uranium land mines if there’s such a thing. It’s time for take off!
etherea said (Sat 25 May 2024 07:22:05 CEST):
I suspect many of us may achieve some kind of clarity of thinking that has been eluding us for a while,
in one or more particular areas (depending upon natal house placement and/or aspects).
Maybe even, remembering a little diddy forgotten piece of paperwork, or some other kind of 'final jigsaw piece'
or contract clause, etc. in certain situations, that creates better sense.
I was not aware about Mars on the eclipse degree yesterday, that explains better how I felt yesterday, I guess......
(and also the post related to the missing boy Arian in the German-speaking section,
the autistic 6-year-old went missing near the full moon after the eclipse)...
That is something new to me, looking at transits to eclipses, at least for this one lots of energy in it..
Regarding "final jigsaw piece", a least yesterday with Jupiter still in Taurus, I did rather the opposite,
threw away quite a few small things that had been lying around in my appartment and which I did not use for anything since I put them there,
often just small pieces of paper from wherever...
I presume that Jupiter will not really take off until past Sedna,
and I guess it should be noted that Jupiter has one of his domiciles in Sagittarius, hence in Gemini is in his exile,
a bit similar maybe to Uranus which some consider exalted in Scorpio, hence also not so well placed in Taurus.
At 3° Gemini (or in the 3rd degree Gemini) the n.node is traditionally exalted,
so I guess some outbursts also there to be expected, not always bad ones.
etherea said (Sat 25 May 2024 21:56:15 CEST):
The third iteration of this comes in the Solar Return of 31 Dec 2024,
with Pluto exact on IC in Aquarius and opposition Mars on MC (chart below):
I am not so sure if solar returns to century charts (or decade charts or millennium charts)
are much significant given that there is for each year a "year chart", the chart for the new year,
but that is arguing logically, not from practical experience.
Obviously the new year 2025 will also have the Mars-Pluto opposition, I most countries probably in the 10th/4th houses,
so maybe very similar interpretation.
My first thought was "nuclear war", with Mars for war and Pluto for the bomb detonation on the ground,
and also the sextiles/trines to the nodes and Sedna.
The first atomic bomb ever to be detonated by humanity, the trinity test, had the MC very late in Pisces,
hence close to the nodes for 2025 or the solar return.
Nuclear: First Atomic Test, horoscope for birth date 16 July 1945, born in White S...
I am not sure about really an atomic explosion then, esp. with Sedna...
Wars have become strange things these days – except, of course, if you are so unlucky to have to fight or live in one that is,
sorry for the following very "high level" observation to those – because many big and even already some smaller countries have atomic bombs,
they could win every war whenever they wanted, for example Russia could use tactical nukes in the Ukraine
and could destroy the Ukrainian defense with relatively little damage in terms of radioactive contamination.
Sure, then there would be some kind of response from the West, but very likely not complete armageddon.
In a way this has transformed wars to some kind of tactical game, where you sort of use less powerful weapons,
which is similar to winning a soccer game against a nation instead of winning a bloody war against the same country, to me very aquarian.
Chess as maybe often an allegory for the world in modern times in the 20th century is now in the postmodern world
also become rather a pointless game in a way, since computers have already very far outrun any human players,
and if you heard the story about Hans Niemann and chess world champion Magnus Carlsen,
if might even have become impossible to exclude with certainty that someone would be cheating
by using input from a computer instead of thinking himself.
The Queen's Gambit, the actress Anya Taylor-Joy of the Netflix series has apparently also removed Mad Max from "his movie" now,
I have not seen it but apparently only his name has remained in the title?
But in the End Game, the King, who is so weak in chess normally, is an important figure...
One of the books I found last weekend at Foundation Beyeler in that "igloo",
I presume maybe even intentionally placed a bit prominently, was Jorge Luis Borges "Dreamtigers",
a selection of short texts, in English translation named after the maybe most marketable text, "Dreamtigers",
in which there is sort of a reference to chess, hunting tigers from a "castle" on top of an elephant,
which is I guess also where the rooks in chess come from, and India and lunar nodes,
and last but not least Kafka and castles...
Recently, I don't know why/how, I had been watching quite a few youtube videos by Anna Cramling,
a strong chess player and daughter to two chess grandmasters, mother from Sweden, father from Spain,
and sort of for her mother she created a new chess opening, the "Cow Opening",
and she often just plays various people, also "chess hustlers";
she may often seem rather naive, but she manages to talk a lot with the opponents and still often win,
I guess maybe most directly visible in her left eye, which reminds of the ones of her mother.
Very interesting was the video in which she showed the same situation 3 times,
first played from there against the computer, then her mother, and that was very, very interesting,
how to the mother it was islands of pawns and many other quite graphical views of the board,
and finally showed how chess world champion Magnus Carlsen had played that against a human opponent,
finding apparently even better moves – while a computer at fully power would have played even better...
As usual there would be tons of thoughts and associations I could write about,
including something today related to "The Art of Memory" and "Memory Palaces" and retracing one's steps,
and more, but let me just mention this idea, esp. since Jupiter is much of a politician,
and now in early Gemini, just a little bit behind Sedna also still in the first degree of Gemini:
Beau of the Fifth Column, who is usually quite good ("The discussions of a southern journalist who is tired of a lack of common sense.")
posted a video yesterday in which he suspects that Russia might be really looking for a peace agreement,
simply for economic reasons related to the new head of the army who is an economist,
link to the video at the bottom of this post.
I think possibly I can now answer my own question in the title of this thread -
"Sedna into Gemini [...] – World-Split?" - with "No".
Even though China+Russia together might allow to form a block strong enough to "split" the world into two blocks,
Russia won't be willing to be just a dependent small partner of China,
so the overall outcome in the years to come would probably be more diverse,
there would business in different ways between different partners, not two blocks.
[Very strange to read that from myself a bit more than half a year later.
Unusual for me such a statement, and more likely wrong than right, at least in my feeling now…
But who knows for sure?]
Penguin Trauma (Tue 28 May 2024 22:22:04 CEST):
Do we count Sedna?
Penguin Trauma (Tue 28 May 2024 22:22:04 CEST):
Fun fact, I watched a video and it was pointed out that the upcoming Venus Star Point
is the end of the larger 8 year cycle that began as far back as June 2016.
Sun, Moon and Venus return to almost the same place in the sky every 8 years,
which is also 99 lunar months and 2 x 5 Venus stations forming pentagrams/pentagons.
This is, for example, why the olympics were alternatively held each 50 and 49 lunar months in ancient Greece,
and presumably also some driving forces for a USA with 50 stars on the flag to hold their elections every 4 years...
Not so sure where the [edit: growing] "twin theme" in the USA comes from,
one hypothesis of mine is that there would be a chart for the Lee Resolution with Uranus in Gemini at the MC
and thus the country evolving from deeply religious ("Sagittarius IC")
in a wide and calm landscape and sitting on porches in the evening
towards a more hectic exchange of information (also "electrically" (Uranus) on the Internet, etc.)
with shorter and shorter messages down to tweets ("Twitter"),
but at least no direct evidence for such a chart 2 July 1776 (~9:45 AM)
and the Sibly chart seems also to reflect a lot...
There had been quite long discussions with also lots of charts of events and people around the foundation of the USA
in the German-speaking part of the astro.com forum...
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octaeteris
- https://www.onereed.com/articles/vvf/olympics.html
etherea said (Wed 29 May 2024 12:35:20 CEST):
Ref the cycles mentioned above, it is worth remembering that Pluto and Neptune had a triple conjunct in 1891/1892 at 8 Gemini,
so as firstly Jupiter and more importantly, Uranus, pass over that degree, we may see shades of that influence
that has been reflected for decades by means of the (still on-going) sextile.
The Pluto/Neptune cycle itself is one involving the two outermost and therefore most powerful (as well as slowest) cycles,
so keeping an eye on transits over this degree is very much a worthwhile thing to do.
Neptune-Pluto Cycles in History - Historical Ephemeris
Uranus will of course form a sextile itself with Neptune, prior to making the jump to Gemini,
so that could act as a precursor to what we see when he reaches 8 Gemini.
@Penguin Trauma I think taking Sedna into account is wise, yes.
Again, it could be an extremely enlightening time to see what happens when Sedna energises that same degree by conjunction.
A degree to probably also have an eye on is 3° Gemini or the 3rd degree of Gemini
(the ancient texts seem not to be fully specific there), the position where traditionally the north node is exalted.
(The degree of exaltation of the n.node is maybe also more important than the degree of exaltation of a planet
because planets have domiciles, but lunar nodes not.)
For Jupiter that will already be between about 3 June and 7 June, for Sedna the first passage past 2° Gemini will be about 20 June 2026,
first time over 3° Gemini about 27 July 2026, and hang around there for something like 3 years...
Maybe also interesting are about 13° and 16° Gemini, where the planetary nodes of Venus resp. Uranus are,
i.e. where their orbital plane crosses the ecliptic.
Source: https://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html
I was not sure whether this should go here or in the Jupiter Gemini thread (or another one, see further below).
Depends a bit on whether the "era" below would really become an "era" (then rather Sedna)
or maybe would be something shorter (then probably more related to Jupiter, or maybe related to Neptune, or ...).
Anyways:
“In the era of Gemini we think we can make a dramatic amount of improvements to search,”
[Liz ]Reid [= new head of all things Google search]
said in an interview with WIRED ahead of the event
[= Google’s annual I/O developer conference in Mountain View, California],
referring to the flagship generative AI model launched late last year.
-- https://www.wired.com/story/google-io-end-of-google-search/
(The WIRED article is dated 14 May 2024)
"Gemini" is the name of Google's AI competition to ChatGPT...
Quote from the same article:
Google Search is about to fundamentally change—for better or worse.
To align with Alphabet-owned Google’s grand vision of artificial intelligence,
and prompted by competition from AI upstarts like ChatGPT,
the company’s core product is getting reorganized, more personalized,
and much more summarized by AI.
This means among other things that websites will get less visits, because Google will directly display some kind of summary,
typically I presume without even a link to any major sources of the information.
I see a lot of the Sedna-Pluto trine in that, plus of course Jupiter and the other planets in early Gemini at the moment
also trine Pluto in early Aquarius.
That big corporations are trying to take control of what people find and read and that this causes a counter reaction
in people would presumably mirror much of Pluto in Aquarius, while Google's Gemini and ChatGPT
are basically built on the technology of "large language models", which does relate to Gemini...
This is also where maybe exactly the proposed "Link Exchange" in the thread about the new forum section could help,
more communication between individuals or groups and their websites.
I noticed that my website has become more and more invisible to Google since after 2020
(I presume also related to the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in early Aquarius of late 2020),
and I presume that many other websites that have interesting stuff,
but are maybe not constantly posting to social media or something like that, have also become almost invisible,
so that I and everybody else who would be interested can now hardly find them via Google
and maybe also not with other search engines...
So, maybe going back to smaller circles where links would be exchanged
and maybe also back to lists of recommended related sites could be something that some people would start to do more again.
And maybe even like here not even let search engines index the pages any more
(or maybe not for AI usage if such a setting becomes generally available / respected by search engines in some way).
Or maybe not, I am not good at predicting such things...
Also, with Neptune in late Pisces, maybe more of that is an illusion than normally, or maybe the contrary...?
Some more thoughts on these developments around Google's Gemini and AI and Internet Searching and so...
If your information at your website is no longer "information at your fingertips" for others
because they might only see some transformed and mixed extract of if and not even a link to your site,
that reminds a lot of Sedna's fingers that were cut off (fingers - digits - digital)
and having your website sink below the surface of what is publicly quickly accessible reminds also of what happened to Sedna...
Gemini is also about curiosity, which naturally leads to searching, to wanting to find what one is interested in,
and if "search engines" prevent that by only offering mainstream shallow, superficial results,
that will likely not satisfy that curiosity in many cases,
while in others quickly getting to some banal results is a benefit for the user of a search engine.
Websites were and are often the original source for digital information, while in time also books were scanned,
for example, and other existing works. Related to Gemini and Mercury/Hermes (Sedna in Gemini)
and to Aquarius/Prometheus (Pluto in Aquarius), also "stealing" in some forms is often a theme.
Like books that Google first scanned without asking for permission by their copyright holders.
Or even that non-profit no-ads Wikipedia collected information (often with references)
also steals/"steals" traffic from the sites who maybe originally provided the information.
(Actually I was thinking that at several instances of something I found on Wikipedia
that in the past someone would have googled my website and found at least the necessary hints for what ended up on Wikipedia
(but no reference to my website), but not sure...)
And so on, I guess in a way bringing information closer to users often also is stealing from the ones who created the information,
is maybe like Prometheus ("Aquarius") stealing the fire, but in contrast rather not from the gods but rather the opposite,
from users or small groups...
What can also be said is that Websites like Wikipedia and others also helped to improve the quality of information found on the Internet,
and also Google in the past was helpful somewhat there,
while still showing also more original content that was also interesting relatively prominently...
But with AI especially the quality suffers. One example that was in the news was that Google's AI (or maybe another one)
suggested in a recipe for Pizza to add a bit of glue in order to have the cheese stick better to the pizza,
robably going back to a joke on Reddit from which the AI then "learned"...
That example is already not even sure to be harmless to all readers, and one can easily imagine more fatal misinformation...
I have also been looking a bit into concrete measures that you can do if you have your own website(s),
but maybe Oliver already knows more about these...
Currently this site, for example, has apparently the following meta tag in the HTML source code of all pages:
<meta name="robots" content="noindex" />
That is a common tag that already effectively prevents the site to be indexed for all major search engines.
It does not prevent a search engine from retrieving the data
and some will certainly use it then for all kinds of evil or "evil" purposes,
but major search engines will not directly use them.
I am not sure if "noindex" also prevents e.g. Google or Microsoft from using the website data for training their AIs;
that would seem natural, but I am not sure...
There seem to be new tags that can be set to specifically exclude AI learning from them, while,
I guess*, if "noindex" is not set, still allowing to index the pages for "traditional" search engine results that lead to the site directly.
(Unlike for many other things on the Internet, there is no official standard for these robots meta tags, just something like "best practices"...)
The new tags seem to be going back to DeviantArt around December 2022:
What's DeviantArt's new "noai" meta tag and how to install it
The new tags are that you can use are "noai" and/or "noimageai" to prevent learning in general
and/or from images for generative AI that creates images, example with both:
<meta name="robots" content="noai, noimageai">
There is also apparently a way to protect images more strongly, although I presume there will be ways to circumvent that:
Use "Glance" which does some tiny modifications to images which mislead at least current learning models:
Glaze - What is Glaze
But I just googled that (pun!), so maybe just good as a starting point...
etherea said (Wed 29 May 2024 15:33:56 CEST):
Jan, did you ever read the Forum Rules, that have been here since shortly after the forum began,
and of which all members were informed? If not, then here is the relevant bit that you missed:
Please do not post:
.....
Spam, self-advertisements, .....
This was very clear and self-explanatory, people have to accept the rules if they wish to be members,
and no further justification is necessary.
Please focus upon that truth. It's not hard.
Franky, to me it is not really clear that this means in practice.
Would be good to have some examples.
For example, if I had a footer on each of my posts like
--
httpx://www.mywebsite.org/
Would that be against the rules?
Or as another example, if in a thread I would reply with some astrological content and then also maybe write something like this:
Back in 2013 I wrote an article about that topic with some additional examples and viewpoints:
Some short quote from the article....
httpx://www.mywebsite.org/myarticles/my2013article.html
Would that be against the rules?
And maybe would also be helpful to have a few more (non-normative) examples
of what is allowed and what is not allowed to make things really clear to all that are reading/posting here.
[edit: Maybe some examples of something that is clearly allowed and some examples of something that is clearly not allowed,
while there would likely be gray areas where it would depend on exact circumstances?]
Because if maybe posters here are not sure what is meant,
they might assume something that is not the case and then get angry for no reason
or not post things that would be allowed and would enrich discussions.
Tia said (Thu 30 May 2024 05:26:08 CEST):
I think romantic marriage is dying out and the more contractual marriage is coming in
because of world economics😂 so perhaps looking for the romantic fluff in Synastry will become less important.
In my early days of doing astrology I had the idea to associate synastry with the Age of Pisces,
because there it is all so relative and so many aspects, more twice as many than in an individual,
and composites with Age of Aquarius because they merge into one picture
and also because there is something artificial about composites because planets can be at relative positions
that never occur in the sky.
I still think there is quite something to that idea, and would still be interested to know when synastry was "invented",
if that was already early in the Age of Pisces (could well be because transits are also not really something else
than synastry between someone or an event and Now), while composites are 20th century as far as I remember.
I still prefer synastry, also because it emphasizes that in a relationship there is something that goes above you and then other person,
something neither of the two can understand, they can only decide to stay in it or go out of it, and of course swim along.
And I prefer Davidson charts (Combin in German) to composites,
but they are often similar at least for slow moving planets and relatively small age distances...
(One Davidson, for example, would put the birth place to Passau, a city where 3 rivers meet, but...)
etherea said (Thu 30 May 2024 10:01:53 CEST):
Hi @xphi...
both examples you have given are self-advertisements, yes.
A quote from an article you wrote - no problem.
Links to self-run sites, channels = will be required to go into the new section.
The uphill about this isn't really warranted - you will still be able to post links,
but on a different, dedicated section, where it will be clearer to all who read.
Plus, seminars, events, readings, etc. will be included in the new section,
making it easier for people who wish to generate more interest in their personal, non-forum work.
If you wish to create a link to your quote from an article, it goes into the new section,
rather than the thread discussion.
You won't be missing out any traffic to your site. If anything, that traffic would increase.
Thanks for the clarification.
Still seems a bit surreal, but I generally like surreal...
I cannot promise anything for the future from my side.
Since early 2021 my research has reached sort of a natural conclusion in its most fundamental area (~ elements from first principles),
of which things related to astrology are a part, but not immediately at the core.
My current website presents this in very condensed form that has apparently not really been accessible to anybody,
with very few exceptions and also those only very fragmentary.
Since about 2019 I have been pondering and meandering around different ways how to make these things more accessible.
There are maybe two fundamental ideas. One is to write lots of articles that are close to current mainstream knowledge/opinions
and add a bit here and there.
That would then maybe go to a new website, where I could put also links back to this forum.
The other idea that has maybe more weight is just one book.
But maybe I would do both, in about 7 years I would regularly stop working (at 65)
nd maybe then such articles would be fun to write in the time I would have worked before,
still leaving time for other things.
That is all I can say at the moment, there is no real barrier to my findings even now...
And maybe I would start a thread about the most fundamental finding one day here...
(It starts with immediate personal/individual perception of space and time
which leads quite naturally to 4+1 "elements" that share key attributes of the ancient Greek elements,
and then to a cycle in which they transform, of which zodiac signs are a part, and more...)
Some thoughts...
One related to "two concepts being born from the same source" by @Penguin Trauma above.
I had always wondered how a split would have come about in Greek mythology such that of Castor and Pollux
one was mortal and the other one immortal.
I guess this is related to the mystery (in ancient times) how identical twins can come to be.
If the same couple has several children in a row, they never are identical,
and even if they have twins they are not always identical, even one can be male and the other female.
This means very likely that in ancient times it would have needed divine intervention
to make a copy of a child and have both born at the same time.
(Was there maybe even a rule which one would be considered divine?)
I don't know if anybody knows a bit about the standard model in particle physics,
the model that reproduces essentially all experimental data to day.
A key element in the theory is what is called "spontaneous symmetry breaking",
often illustrated with a ball on a perfectly symmetric hill.
Even though the hill is perfectly symmetric, small perturbations can make the ball fall down in any direction -
and never come back up again without external energy, so that even though the intial state was perfectly symmetric,
the final state is not.
Randomness or luck or whatever you might call it are also something that is often related to Gemini,
and its nature in nature is not really known...
Since Sedna was sinking down in mythology, would maybe even some splits
that are at the moment quite prominent in the world simply also sink down, would just go out of focus,
or maybe just leave mundane fields and go (back?) to more private areas?
Have you heard of Microsoft's Copilot and the "Recall" function?
Copilot would be additional hardware that would come with your PC and by default it would take screenshots every 5 seconds (!)
and make them available to the local AI (among other data).
icrosoft claims it is all safe and secure, that they encrypt the data,
that it will only be stored locally and only be accessible if you have access to the PC and know the password.
Well, in my view very badly protected and I speculatively suspect
that is would be technology they first developed for the NSA and maybe also similar three-letter organisations
in order to prevent further wistleblowers like Snowden or also be able to detect spies...
The NSA has a Scorpio sun and a Gemini moon, if I recall correctly, while Snowden has it the other way round ...
yes, although Snowden's sun is in the last degree of Gemini, at a square to Neptune now...
BBC UK watchdog looking into Microsoft AI taking screenshots
- https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwwqp6nx14o
- https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Snowden,_Edward (RR AA)
- NSA: 4 Nov 1952
Sedna in 8.x° Gemini would be in 2035 to 2037 (in and out several times).
One one more thing, not sure if I had the idea before and maybe even already mentioned it,
would be esp. related to so many things I wrote about in the past 20+ years:
How about letting them "free" as small texts like the animals that emerged from Sedna's fingers,
since I essentially had typed those things first with my fingers???
Tia said (Fri 31 May 2024 01:49:11 CEST):
I always begin with Synastry for compatibility, Composite charts for transits and progressed Composite I keep it very simple.
In my practice I’ve noticed that relationships have changed drastically over the last few years especially
when it comes to the various types of relationships, their preferences, level of commitment and sexual preferences
which can be multiple these days.
People want more choices generally I’ve noticed a lack of commitment, preferring open relationships or polyamorous and polygamy.
It’s pretty difficult to advise a client if that type of relationship will work or last. How do you do compatibility for 3 people?
I guess one limiting factor is current tools.
In principle it is no problem to make a synastry chart for 3 or more people or a composite or Davidson.
But for synastry it becomes quickly practically impossible to read.
Single person, planets Sun, Moon, Mercury to Pluto, i.e. 10 objects: 45 possible aspects (9+8+...+1)
Synastry for 2 people, same 10 objects: 100 possible aspects (10 x 10)
Synastry for 3 people, same 10 objects: 1000 possible aspects (10 x 10 x 10)
Synastry for 4 people, same 10 objects: 10'000 possible aspects (10 x 10 x 10 x 10)
With composites, is it OK to just look at the composite for all 3 together or should you also do 3 composites for each pairing?
That also gets quickly impracticable with more people...
German astrologer Christoph Niederwieser is using a technique he calls the "group horoscope"
where he simply plots all planets of all people in the group onto a single chart in different colors
but does not draw any aspects.
This neglects houses and also largely individual aspects.
But you can see clusters and they can then also be in aspect to each other.
I once did this for a family I know well, father and mother and 3 children, and there was nothing in Aries –
except if you would add me with my moon (and MC) in Aries...
Here's an article about this which he published in The Mountain Astrologer in 2017:
The Group Horoscope
by Dr. Christof Niederwieser
The Group Horoscope
In German there is also an article based on extracts from his book:
Das Gruppenhoroskop - Monty Python und Queen
Dr. Christof Niederwieser
Das Gruppenhoroskop
I was once at a presentation he gave, it appears that he is using this technique professionally to consult companies.
So if you apply for a job in the future and they tell you
"Sorry, you would be ideal, except that we were looking from someone with planets in Taurus to complete the team",
you know who to thank...
Regarding sexuality, huge topic...
A few days ago there was a mini series on the Berlin TV channel, 4 x 30 min,
titled "F*ck Berlin" with a asterisk in the title and subtitle "A summer in the sex-positive capital":
F*ck Berlin Staffel 1 der Serie - jetzt streamen!
(Videos geoblocked to Germany)
Was the first time I heard of "sex-positive":
Sex-positive movement - Wikipedia
Seemed in that mini-series to be some kind of "sex" without tensions,
which to me personally seemed somewhat "without Mars", but...
I guess the relatively young women in the series were born around 2000,
hence probably Pluto in Sagittarius, and Nepune and maybe Uranus in Aquarius...
So probably - with Pluto related to sexuality via domicile Scorpio incl. primary sexual organs parts usually attributed to Scorpio -
quite open/frank about sexuality and somewhat boundless, plus with the Aquarius themes rather mixed/fused male/female attributes...?
In a way "sex-positive" reminds a bit of HIV-positive or any test for a disease,
so that associatively one might think that maybe implicitly sex would be considered a "disease",
which might be related to the 2020s with Chiron in early Aries at the start of the decade,
hence Chiron in Aries healing a "disease" by taming Mars? Chiron
also because I noticed that at the beginning of the 1970s Chiron was also in early Aries (50 year cycle of Chiron),
and sexually things were a bit similar then, with lots of androgynous stars,
and recently Liz Greene published a book titled "Chiron in Love",
based I think on an older conference or something like that...
Another way to see "positive" in "sex-positive" would be the "+" sign in the glyph for Venus ♀...
And so on...
etherea said (Sat 1 Jun 2024 19:54:53 CEST):
There is something else that is immediately obvious - so obvious that it is easily overlooked, and that is BRICS.
It started off with five members and has been growing since, with more countries having indicated their interest in joining, too.
This is of course, the first time in a long while that the West has been looking at a competitive power bloc,
and one with the potential to supersede them.
This does look like a split. That may be Sedna's influence being brought to bear,
although I think the first BRICS ministerial meeting took place in 2006 and in the chart,
there was nothing in Gemini.
As there was no exact time, that absence may be filled by one of the angles
but that is a chart detail we may never encounter.
Actually I was looking at ancient mythologies around Gemini and wanted to reply to that,
but then I found this on "Constellation of Words" about Gemini (bold by me):
A symbol for Gemini was ‘a Pile of Bricks‘,
referring to the building of the first city and the fratricidal brothers,
and the Sumerian name for the month May-June, when the sun was in Gemini, signified ‘Bricks’ [Allen, Star Names].
Masonry is the craft of piling one stone or brick upon another.
Mason is related to the word make, mate, and match,
from Old English gemaca, related to gemæcca, ‘one of a pair, mate, consort’, gemaecc, ‘well-matched, suitable’.
[These words correspond phonetically and semantically to gemini, although they are not recognized cognates].
-- https://www.constellationsofwords.com/gemini/
That makes many things clearer around something what has been largely a mystery to me,
never knew where to place the Knights Templar or the subsequent Freemasons astrologically,
settled for Aquarius because that would apparently often be associated with secret societies.
But Gemini fits a lot...
The seal of the Knights Templar with the two knights reminds quite a bit of the Babylonian twins in the sky:
Seal of the Templars
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
Reconstruction of the Great Twins, from Gavin White's "The Babylonian Star-lore"
Linked from: http://judy-volker.com/StarLore/Myths/Gemini.html
Some quotes from Wikipedia, I guess largely self-explanatory in context of Gemini...
The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon, mainly known as the Knights Templar,
was a French military order of the Catholic faith, and one of the wealthiest and most popular military orders in Western Christianity.
They were founded c. 1119, headquartered on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and existed for nearly two centuries during the Middle Ages.
Note the previous discussions on page 3 here around fixed star Alcyone currently in the first degree of Gemini (like Sedna)
and its relation to Mount Zion, which apparently was originally the Temple Mount in Jerusalem...
By the way, Alcyone is one of the Pleiades, as is Maia, the mother of Hermes in Greek mythology.
Wow, currently, fixed star Maia is at 0°01' Gemini, hence in Gemini since roughly one year, let me calculate that on astro.com...
since roughly 20 October 2022 in Gemini...
(and part of the constellation of Taurus, while Maia possibly also gave her name to the month of May, even though it generally means ~ "great").
Back to Wikipedia:
In 1119, the French knight Hugues de Payens approached King Baldwin II of Jerusalem and Warmund, Patriarch of Jerusalem,
and proposed creating a monastic Catholic religious order for the protection of these pilgrims.
King Baldwin and Patriarch Warmund agreed to the request, probably at the Council of Nablus in January 1120,
and the king granted the Templars a headquarters in a wing of the royal palace on the Temple Mount in the captured Al-Aqsa Mosque.
and
They were prominent in Christian finance; non-combatant members of the order, who made up as much as 90% of their members,[2][3]
managed a large economic infrastructure throughout Christendom.[4]
They developed innovative financial techniques that were an early form of banking,[5][6]
building a network of nearly 1,000 commanderies and fortifications across Europe and the Holy Land,
and arguably forming one of the world's earliest multinational corporations.
(Two good friends of mine, both Gemini born in May, are bankers, one did become an officer in military,
the other not at all, even though his father had been colonel, one has been travelling a lot around the world for work,
the other practically not, both have a little house in the mountains (Maia was a "mountain nymph"),
and both are rather slim, also their faces.)
Anyways, the name BRICS might be an indication that the "rest of the world" would also want to make structures
that maybe first emerged in the "West", and many things in the USA with its Mars and Uranus in Gemini
now make more sense astrologically to me...
In Babylon there were actually two constellations related to Gemini:
The Great Twins (which I guess are today's constellation Gemini) and also the Little Twins (nearby in the sky),
which might explain why in Greek mythology there were two eggs in the myth around Leda and the swan (Zeus in disguise),
with two children in each egg.
Some teasers from Gavin White's "Babylonian Star-Lore":
All 4 twins are shown as warriors in full armor; the Great Twins are closely related to Nergal, king of the underworld;
they were guardians of one of the entrances to the underworld, the one at the summer solstice around the constellation Cancer,
hence also the arms... - but there is a lot more in the book, I have not read all of it so far...
-- https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/7520311.Gavin_White
-- https://www.amazon.com/Babylonian-Star-Lore-Illustrated-Star-Lore-Constellations/dp/0955903742
etherea said (Sat 1 Jun 2024 19:48:15 CEST):
There is a cross-reflection with Pluto, as he also represents duality, and is the god of the Underworld - a curious resonance.
I think I wanted to ask before but then forgot to
[actually already asked mid April in a thread about the USA]:
In what ways or for which reasons would Pluto be related to "duality"?
At least to me (before that here with the Babylonian twins) no indications in mythology or otherwise
that would have suggested "duality" to me related to Pluto himself.
Core/Persephone yes in way because she spends part of the year in the underworld and the other on the surface.
A detail I found that might be interesting related to masonry and Gemini.
According to Gavin White in his book "twin" would most often be written as "Maštabba" in Babylon.
The word currently used for "single-story" graves in ancient Egypt that were predecessors of the pyramids
(first stacked to step pyramids, then smooth faces, all researched in detail) is "mastaba",
apparently after an Arab word that means "bench of mud":
The term mastaba comes from the Arabic word for "a bench of mud".
When seen from a distance, a flat-topped mastaba does resemble a bench.
Historians speculate that the Egyptians may have borrowed architectural ideas from Mesopotamia,
since at the time they were both building similar structures.
Mastaba - Wikipedia
etherea said (Sun 2 Jun 2024 12:34:56 CEST):
Pluto denotes the All or Nothing, Expansion or Implosion, the Highest and the Lowest, powerlessness and infinite power,
zygotes (beginning of physical existence) and Death, Incarnation and The Ineffable. The extremes, polarity.
He is also Janus, who looks both forwards and backwards, simultaneously.
I think I have to postpone a reply due to external circumstances, but would like to get back to it at some later time.
With the discovery of new planets starting with Uranus, many traditional planets have lost some of their "domains"/"themes"
(via domiciles of new planets, but also otherwise), and since in the hypothesis here with Sedna as a new member of that exclusive club
it is also interesting to see what Sedna would get from where/whom, so Pluto is also important,
esp. as Sedna would come immediately after Pluto into the club.
Yesterday 100 years ago (3 June 1924) Frank Kafka died of Tuberculosis.
He is in a way almost as close as you can get to Gemini/Hermes/Mercury in a single person
(and with Pluto in the first degree of Gemini and Saturn just a little bit ahead, also reflected in current times).
Franz Kafka, horoscope for birth date 3 July 1883, born in Prague, with Astrodata...
Note also that in the chain of dispositors, it would all come from Mercury in his chart
(Franz Kafka in the middle, Milena Jesenská to the right, and to the left a "synastry chain of dispositors" ).
Here the epitaph that Milena Jesenská wrote shortly after his death
and which was first published in Czech 6 June 1924 in the daily newspaper "Národní Listy":
Franz Kafka. Dr. Franz Kafka, a German writer who lived in Prague,
died the day before yesterday in the Kierling Sanatorium in Klosterneuburg near Vienna.
Only a few people here knew him, because he was a recluse, a knowing man who was frightened by life.
He had been suffering from a lung disease for years, and although he had it treated,
he also consciously nurtured and mentally encouraged it.
“When the soul and the heart can no longer bear the burden,
then the lungs take half of it so that the load is at least somewhat evenly distributed,”
he once wrote in a letter, and this was also the case with his illness.
It gave him a sensitivity bordering on the miraculous and a spiritual purity
that was uncompromising to the point of horror; and conversely, it was he, the man,
who placed the entire burden of his spiritual fear of life on his illness.
He was shy, fearful, gentle and good, but the books he wrote were cruel and painful.
He saw the world full of invisible demons that fight and destroy defenseless people.
He was too clear-sighted, too wise to live and too weak to fight:
but that was the weakness of noble, beautiful people who are incapable of fighting against fear,
misunderstanding, unkindness and spiritual untruth, who know their powerlessness from the outset,
submit and thus shame the victor.
He had a knowledge of human nature that is only given to those who live in solitude,
whose highly sensitive nerves can clairvoyantly grasp the whole person from a mere facial expression.
His knowledge of the world was extraordinary and profound.
He himself was an extraordinary and profound world.
He wrote the most important books of young German literature.
They contain, in an understated form, the struggle of generations in the present day.
They possess a truthful nakedness that makes them appear naturalistic even where they speak in symbols.
They have the dry irony and sensitive vision of a man
who saw the world in such an overly clear light that he could not bear it and had to die,
because he did not want to make any concessions in order to save himself, like the others,
in any intellectual errors, however noble.
Dr. Franz Kafka wrote the fragment “The Stoker” (published in Czech in Neumann's “Červen”);
it forms the first chapter of a beautiful, as yet unpublished novel “The Trial”,
in which the conflict between two generations is depicted.
“Die Verwandlung”, the most powerful book in modern German literature.
“Die Strafkolonie” and the sketches “Betrachtung” and “Landarzt”.
The last novel, “Before the Judgement”, has been in manuscript for years;
it is one of those books whose reading leaves such a world-encompassing impression
that any commentary becomes superfluous.
All his works depict the horror of mysterious misunderstandings
and people's guilt through no fault of their own.
He was a man and an artist with such a scrupulous conscience
that he remained vigilant even where the others, the deaf, already felt safe.
Milena Jesenská.
-- https://www.franzkafka.de/fundstuecke/milenas-nachruf
(Translated to English with deepl.com)
Note how she, for example, mentions lungs and nerves, which are astrologically attributed to Gemini/Mercury,
but I guess she also gets close beyond that even if maybe a bit romantic about it, but...
A few days ago, the father of the current partner or girl friend of probably my best friend
(I am not sure how they would describe their relation/relationship, but they have been living in the same house since about two years) died,
retired in a country in Eastern Europe (I guess he moved there mainly due to limited money).
She was born with Sedna at a bit more than 4° Taurus, shortly behind Venus, and likely close to the MC
(birth time currently only known with a precision of about one hour, and not from a birth certificate),
and her Mercury is early in Gemini. As I heard last Sunday, her father would have once told her
(not sure how old she was then) that her mother and she herself would be the cause of all his misery.
How surreal for lack of a better word.
Sure, you can blame a partner, at least to some degree, but not a child, a child is always innocent,
at least that is how I see it.
Her life had many very hard events, one where she when still a young child (quite a bit less than 10,
maybe even less than 5, I don't remember exactly) rescued her mother from a suicide attempt by dragging her out of her car (alone!),
and there were other heavy events later in her life, likely also related to her Saturn in Cancer,
of which one also left some so far quasi permanent damage.
One job she had in the past was to escort dogs for other people, and she had dogs herself in the past,
of which one was brutally killed (back broken) at one of the heavy events, the one that so far left damage,
and which also so far did keep her from having a dog again,
I guess out of respect for the dog because she is not sure, yet, if she could handle it, I guess.
[Since autumn 2024 there is Pitu ("Machu-Pitu"),
a rather small dog adopted from a shelter in Spain, and a very happy dog now.]
Her father had something like a shelter for dogs in that Eastern European country where he lived with a new partner,
not sure if rescued stray dogs or what exactly, in way making things more surreal again.
In my personal experience, dogs are linked to Gemini, not sure why, maybe because unlike cats they do play tricks on humans?
Also, of course, dogs are related to the moon goddess Artemis/Diana as her hunting companions.
And, since Pluto ceased to be astronomically a planet in Prague in 2006,
I relate Sedna as the successor to Pluto as the newest object further out also with that,
hence also a relation to around 3° Taurus, where the moon is traditionally exalted,
c.f. also Anna's posts around "The Last Tango" further above...
In my view, Pluto is not absolute any more since 2006,
lost the ultimate power which he was anyways only given as a servant to collective (female) forces,
albeit at the expense of individual females. Beating Pluto is not easy,
it takes I guess the female ability to suffer more than imaginable to succeed,
but that was maybe just a very superficial (even "mansplained"??) way of approaching it,
but it should at least be hinted at, to bring it up like an animal from the sea surfacing briefly...
[MangoLassi said (Sun 9 Jun 2024 06:19:01 CEST):
"Wow , people will fight about anything"]
MangoLassi said (Sun 9 Jun 2024 21:00:31 CEST):
Xphi… I mean no harm. It’s just that struggling never gets anyone anywhere.
I believe in natural consequences. If something is good it’s good. People will notice.
Like drugs, guns, sex, pizza. You can ban that stuff and make it punishable by death
and people will still get a hold of it. Same with anything else that is obtainable.
If what you have to offer has value, it will be valued.
I think with the nodal axis currently in Aries-Libra it is currently overall/synthetically rather like this:
The "fighting/struggling" of Aries is in way life itself...
Individual lives are mostly relatively short, but life itself continues much longer, maybe forever, so, yes,
I think it makes sense to do things, even if others do not understand them...
And it seems wrong or at least uncool to me personally to insinuate (maybe consciously without intention?)
that what others do, where they invest energy, would be futile, just because you do not understand.
(Seeing things from someone else's perspective would also be a theme for Saturn in Pisces, is harder than usual to do this currently.)
Specifically regarding "self-advertisement" which is next to "spam" and in the same sentence with "paedophilia" in the forum rules:
In the past in forums it was quite natural that posters would have short footers with often also a link to a personal website.
Should that be forbidden? So I understand Jan Martin.
But I also see that things have changed, compared to 20 years ago there are so many more people online,
the Internet is flooded with content, and AI will make it a million times more easy to flood things,
which is why I think that maybe smaller "clubs", with a smaller web of links might be something helpful for the future,
hence the idea of the new forum section is interesting to me...
Last weekend I tried something very quickly (maybe with quite a bit of Jupiter in early Gemini),
a new website project where I had the idea to gradually "spray" thousands of astrological ideas and essays I had over the past 20+ years,
with links back here and post in the new section, plus in other places, I created the website with Quarto,
registered an account at GitHub, got the site up at dreams.<mysite>.net, that was Saturday between about 6 pm (near Zürich)
and live at 11:24 PM (mostly I had to wait for DNS settings to have an effect),
but the night after that I lay awake until about 3 am,
the next morning I tried a few more little things and then deleted the website again...
Was that a futile struggle? No, not for me, now I know that this is not the path for me,
after having played with such ideas during several years, but never tried them so directly.
(Just in case: I really mean "not the path for me", not that such a thing would be wrong for others,
probably it even is a good approach for more than half of the people, maybe even for almost all, just not for me).
But I have another idea, something that might work, but I guess I will first start a "trial balloon" here in a thread,
and also see if it is already "ripe", if it interests some people.
Would be about the most important idea I had,
one that leads from direct personal experience of the world to the existence of 4 "elements"
with astonishing similarities with the ones of antiquity,
plus also a "fifth element" and a cycle of elements,
of which then the signs of the (Western) zodiac seem to mirror fragments of, and more...
And the idea would be to gradually write a book that would be amenable to many,
with help of feedback from here, and keep the book freely available in electronic form
(plus also make it available in printed form).
I never read the short story by Beckett (Samuel not Kate) where people often quote this from:
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."
He was most likely an Aries sun (see ADB), while I think that short story is more tragic, but...
[I never saw the new promised section emerge, as of early Dec 2024.]
Penguin Trauma said (Mon 10 Jun 2024 17:37:36 CEST):
Neptune is firmly at the 29°Pisces and is certainly slowing down ready to station retrograde.
To be honest, I'm seeing more delusions in people than ever. Wait until Pluto returns to Capricorn and exactly sextiles Neptune.
I think that might expose what is clearly hiding in plain sight (on both sides)
The ones that are "undecided" seem to be the least delusional , at least they are weighing up the pros and cons,
and using critical thinking skills, instead of siding with a particular party out of knee jerk reactions.
I wonder what the collective dreams of the next Neptune "year" will be...*
Regarding decisions, I think with the nodes currently in cardinal male signs, generally starting things would be good,
but probably a good mix or even sort of balance between Aries and Libra, both wait and go, think and imagine, overall,
but maybe I am a bit over the top in that respect, my MC is at 12°47' Aries, the mean n.node is already past that,
the true one will follow relatively soon... I am quite undecided, but so since about 2019, and recently there was some progress,
at least seemed so, so I am rather hopeful...
Just saw an early colorized photo of Japan, a Samurai with sword,
surrounded by maybe his family with several women and small children, dated 1965,
about 3 years after Neptune entered Aries the last time.
Or maybe Marx with "Das Kapital" in 1867...
In Greek mythology Poseidon is rather a stubborn more archaic god, not in any way "dreamy".
I guess he just wanted to stop all that "art stuff" with photography and film, so it would all be real,
and it turned out much worse, images that you could not trust, abstract art and more...
So would maybe AI be the next illusion, would that create even crazier art by humans or other things that defy what seemed inescapable?
And will there be a renaissance of "Hollywood" in some form?
By the way, Russia is organizing some sort of alternative peace conference around Ukraine "special operation",
in Nizhny Novgorod about 400 km from Moscow, with China, India, South Africa, Brasil, Iran, and maybe more. Will see what happens...
Not sure if I mentioned that before: When Pluto was in Leo, many colonies gained (relative/formal) independence,
now the pendulum may swing the other way, they may often be "forced" to join a larger club,
also with the last Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in early Aquarius.
But in the hypothesis of this thread, at least in these times Sedna would be stronger (c.f. also Weinstein and Epstein, and more),
so that maybe the "immoral" quest and fight for more flexible deals and opportunities (Sedna in Gemini) would be stronger,
would maybe prevent a split.
Or maybe one of the two twin blocks would be immortal (the West?)
and the other mortal (China-Russia with others maybe just opportunistically joining a bit?) but...
Also China has a different astrology, what is happening there,
while Russia is still a child of the Jewish-Christian-Muslim "block"
that despite many differences shares the same astrology...
Penguin Trauma said (Tue 11 Jun 2024 07:38:08 CEST):
Aries is about the "self" and we have seen a lot of transits already pass through Aries over the years:
first Uranus, then (and currently still) Chiron, and a short spell of Jupiter in between.
So we should get an idea of what the Aries themes are
Uranus Aries saw the rise of the Selfie, promoting the self via technology and social media platforms.
Simply, a picture of your head, all glamorised (Neptune filters).
The Selfie being an integral part of showcasing your identity online for the digital world to see.
I am not convinced even though I see that with the "head"...
To me Aries is more like a newborn, "I am hungry, feed me!", "I am cold, warm me!",
and so on, does not have a picture of himself/herself/*self, yet.
Here's the chart (no houses) for the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction of 2000.
Narcissus fell in love with his mirror image in the water, so maybe related to Venus ("love") in Gemini, the twin in the water?
And with Jupiter nearby looking great?
And a sextile to the moon in Aries? Moon and water, reflections, hence already a reflection there,
plus the opportunity (sextile) to Venus ... Moon and classical photography because chemically based on silver?
And the water also Neptune, who is also typically associated with photography
and movies because they came up "big" during the time after his discovery...
But also that does not really add up to me, does not really explain it to me?
Had also looked at the 21st century chart, and, of course,
I am definitely also thinking about Sedna in Taurus between its discovery around 2003 and 2024,
with simply Taurus-Venus-Mirror-♀ but...
PS: The only time I had a picture of me (my head) on Facebook was after about 10 August 2010,
a few days after my solar return, and was actually for someone specific (which did not work out),
otherwise despite MC in Aries (and Moon near MC, 5° ahead) practically no images with me online,
I provided one from long ago (1995, I think) for the ADB, and the ones from 2010 for Amazon,
but rather reluctantly, I would rather see my creations (cardinal sign) prominently, not me...
But also thats can have various reasons...
One thing that I suspect will probably change with Neptune in Aries is "open borders" for migrations (and goods probably, too).
At least from what some people around me are currently posting and also I guess with changes in the EU parliament...
Dissolution of borders ("Neptune", "Pisces") would be reduced.
Any entry of a planet into a new sign also means that the planet is leaving the sign it was in...
Due to climate change there might be migrations of a kind you cannot control,
or at least could not in the past, e.g. the Roman limes...
Penguin Trauma said (Wed 12 Jun 2024 07:48:00 CEST):
As for the Selfie part, Uranus Aries combined with Neptune Pisces.
@xphi... maybe you don't post pictures of your head,
but a quick glance at Instagram may show you otherwise.
That's the main thing you'll see!
[I misinterpreted that as that he had seen images of my head at an Instagram account,
while he was apparently talking in general terms that people would show their heads there,
while overall I still don't buy the general take on selfies as "Aries", but read on…]
WTF??? The first sentence is a fact? Neptune was not yet in Pisces in summer 2010 when I made my selfie...
And if I had to decide now, I would say selfies most likely started essentially in around 2003 roughly with myspace (social media).
My solar return 2010 had a grand square near the cardinal points:
me-solar-2010.png
I think astrologer Emond Wollmann has a birth chart that is like that, would have to look up his birth data,
could not find it just now. His Facebook still today reminds me in a way of mine in summer 2010:
Edmond Wollmann
And the instagram account you saw? I guess must have been someone else's?
I have one that where I look maybe once every 3 months or so, has as profile image the same as me here...
https://www.instagram.com/<first>.<last>/ (and my facebook https://www.facebook.com/<first>.<last>.
The only place with images of me (my head) are at ADB https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/<Last>,_<First>
and at Amazon https://www.amazon.de/stores/<First>-<Last>/author/B07SKCNSXJ
How disappointing as a reply?
But maybe it is Neptune on (and slightly ahead of) my natal Saturn at the moment that leads to such things?
PS: Obviously since there are something like 3 Billion people on Facebook,
it seems over the top to call if you considered them all narcissists.
Showing your face online is in a way just mirroring real life into the internet,
where also the face is usually what you meet first.
In that sense I guess I am rather not normal, not a "perfectly normal beast" (THHGTTG),
not so much of a herd animal...
Penguin Trauma said (Wed 12 Jun 2024 14:54:14 CEST):
I think you misunderstood, I didn't mean your face specifically was plastered all over Instagram,
I'm talking about the billions of end users of Instagram posting their OWN carefully curated and heavily filtered selfie faces.
Let's not even get started on Influencers.
The Selfie trend in general, and keeping with the most recent phase (yes, selfies have been around since the invention of the camera,
but here we are talking about since social media became the norm, and front facing cameras were introduced to smartphones,
the start of the 2010s)
Here's an article from 2013 (interestingly, with some selfie tips)
Self-portraits and social media: The rise of the 'selfie'
Apologies for the confusion.
Also my apologies, I feel like getting really old...
I found this, and maybe I should take a closer look at the myths of Sedna,
my knowledge there is quite fragmentary, not sure if generally reflects her mythology:
Sedna: The Mysteries, Miracles and Infinite Capacity of Water, Remembering the Past and F...
-- Sedna: The Mysteries, Miracles and Infinite Capacity of Water, Remembering the Past and Future of East Asian Medicine, 17 Feb, 2006
The Myth of Sedna
In our process of illumination of the new Sedna archetype, let us first examine the myth.
There are myriad variations that occur throughout the Arctic; the basic outlines of the story are as follows:
Sedna is generally characterized as a somewhat vain, self-centered young girl;
she is an only child, motherless, who lives with her father,
and spends most of her time gazing at her reflection in the mirror,
combing her long locks.
In her self-absorbed state, she has rejected any number of eligible suitors,
and shows very little interest in marriage, in defiance of the norms for behavior of young women of her tribe.
(Read on at the site...)
Looks like front cameras in smartphones became mainstream in 2010,
with the first one in a smartphone in 2003 (Motorola A920), while selfies were prominent already on MySpace,
usually taken with the back camera in the mirror in the bathroom...
To me personally, there was a big change around autumn 2003,
when first photos of Sedna were taken (public announcements half a year later),
as Sedna appeared close to my north node and took many years to transit,
at least seems to be that, since I could not see any other astrological reason for the change...
Digits and digitalization at the "hands" of Sedna,
so probably plays well together with all the other astrological factors...
And is, of course, very similar to Venus, hence the hypothesis to give her Libra as domicile
and well placed in Taurus, but...
PS: By the way, I found Edmond H. Wollmann's chart, he has a Venus-Sedna conjunction in Aries,
part of a grand square, plus a T-square in aspects to the grand square, quite a chart...
Penguin Trauma said (Wed 12 Jun 2024 22:13:12 CEST):
No worries! 🙂 Reading back on my original post, I can see why there may have been a misinterpretation in what I wrote 🤦
Must be all the Gemini energies swirling around! It feels oddly like a Mercury retrograde
Yeah, "swirling around" is quite a good description...
Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin' into the future...
See the evolution of a song text below and then charts...
Steve Miller Band - Fly Like An Eagle (Live From Don Kirshner's Rock Concert, 1973)
Here is an early pre-release live version of “Fly Like An Eagle” from Don Kirshner's Rock Concert recorded in 1973,
three years before it was released. [...]
The Steve Miller Band performs his iconic hit “Fly Like An Eagle”
recorded live in 1973 at the Palace Theater in New York City for Don Kirshner’s Rock Concert.
Time keeps on slippin' ... slippin' away
Time keeps on driftin', yeah ... day by day
Time keeps on takin' ... me away
Oh Lord ... from the revolution
I wanna fly like an eagle ... to the sea
I wanna fly like an eagle let my spirit carry me
I wanna fly like an eagle ... till I'm free
I wanna fly oh Lord to the revolution
"Don Kirshner's Rock Concert" first aired 27 Sept 1973, not clear to me if the above ever aired there from the comment to the video...
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Kirshner's_Rock_Concert
The Steve Miller Band - Fly Like An Eagle (Midnight Special - Dec. 20, 1973)
Things began to look even worse for Miller when he broke his neck in a car accident and subsequently developed hepatitis,
which put him out of commission for most of 1972 and early 1973.
[...]
Miller spent his recuperation time reinventing himself as a blues-influenced pop/rocker, writing compact, melodic, catchy songs.
[...] He purchased a farm and built his own recording studio, at which he crafted the wildly successful albums
Fly Like an Eagle and Book of Dreams at approximately the same time.
Fly Like an Eagle was released in 1976 and eclipsed its predecessor in terms of quality and sales (over four million copies)
in spite of the long downtime in between.
Time keeps on movin' ... movin' away
Time keeps on groovin' ... day by day
Time keeps on movin' ... us away
Lord, from the revolution
I wanna fly like an eagle ... till I'm free
Fly like an eagle ... to the sea
I wanna fly like an eagle ... let my spirit carry me
Oh Lord, to the revolution
Steve Miller Band - Fly Like An Eagle - 1/5/1974 - Winterland (Official)
Recorded Live: 1/5/1974 - Winterland - San Francisco, CA
Time ... keeps on movin' ... me away
Tiiiime keeps on movin' ... day by day
Time keeps on pushin' ... outta way
Lord, from the revolution
You know I fly like an eagle ... till I'm free
Fly like an eagle let my spirit carry me
Fly like an eagle ... to the sea
Lord fly right to the revolution
Original promo video for this 1976 song from the Steve Miller Band.
The song was released in the United Kingdom in August 1976 and in the United States in December 1976.[1]
It went to number two on the US Billboard Hot 100 for the week of March 12, 1977.
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_Like_an_Eagle_(song)
Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin' ... into the future
Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin' ... into the future
I wanna fly like eagle ... to the sea
Fly like an eagle let my spirit carry me
I want to fly like an eagle ... till I'm free
Oh Lord, to the revolution
And "rereleased" in the 1980s...
Steve Miller Band - Abracadabra (Official Music Video)
In his birth chart, Saturn is quite slow, "slippin' into the future",
retrograde about 4 days later... at 26°37' Gemini, at the cusp of 8.
https://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/1900/ae_1943.pdf
There was a single Saturn return of the first cycle in 1973,
i.e. close to the song coming up, and Saturn not slow then ...
A white buffalo was born in Yellowstone 4 June 2024, could not find a time, so no houses:
See Wikipedia for the basic story of a famine 19 generations ago, two scouts sent out,
encounter a woman in white (and also a cloud), one scout approaches her in lust,
is killed by lighting, she tells the other scout what to do, then turns into white calf, details:
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Buffalo_Calf_Woman
And this here, at the BBC in a news article about the newborn white buffalo calf:
The woman told them she would return to restore harmony in a troubled world, and then rolled on the ground four times,
changing colour each time before becoming a white buffalo calf.
-- https://www.bbc.com/articles/ckrrlpdlzj7o
That reminds me a lot of the core paragraph in Robert Grave's "The White Goddess":
I write of her as the White Goddess because white is her principal colour, the colour of the first member of her moon-trinity,
but when Suidas the Byzantine records that Io was a cow that changed her colour from white to rose and then to black
he means that the New Moon is the white goddess of birth and growth;
the Full Moon, the red goddess of love and battle; the Old Moon, the black goddess of death and divination.
Suidas's myth is supported by Hyginus's fable of a heifer-calf born to Minos and Pasiphae
which changed its colours thrice daily in the same way.
In response to a challenge from an oracle one Polyidus son of Coeranus correctly
compared it to a mulberry|a fruit sacred to the Triple Goddess. (Chapter 4)
I guess, also since native Americans came to North America early on,
it is very interesting that the white woman reminds of Isis, white water,
one scout of Seth, the red desert, the other scout of Osiris, the black fertile earth near the Nile.
Every year, the dry heat breaks up the black soil into fragments, but the Nile flood restores it again,
similarly, the white woman likely brought rain...
In the chart there is the stellium of the "moon" asteroids Diana-Hecate-Artemis, with Artemis at a square to Sedna, for example.
Also, the moon-Uranus conjunction in Taurus is, of course, fitting for the birth of a "cow"/"bull",
and interestingly (but hopefully more in another thread),
there was also such a conjunction at the founding meeting of BRIC (before the S was added) in Yekaterinburg.
There is also a Yod from Neptune-Pluto to Artemis, and there is more...
Just in case: It appears that in 2023 there was already a white buffalo born in Wyoming,
so per se maybe not all that important as an event...
Oh, before I forget, the white bull out of the Ocean was the gift of Poseidon ("Neptune") to King Minos,
and as the story goes Minos sacrified a different white bull,
then there was the Daedalus encounter and the Minotaurus, Theseus and Ariadne, ...
@etherea
I find it difficult to reply at the moment, maybe Sedna in Gemini, words sinking down, but I hope to still write today.
Just seems that a typical "Gemini-style" dialog with arguments and counterarguments or just different points of view
is not so easy at the moment in this thread...
Here is the chart (no houses) for the first BRIC conference, 16 June 2009 in Yekaterinburg,
the one were they first published a joint statement:
BRIC Joint Statement, 2009
Astrologically, one thing caught my eye,
Uranus (presumably conjunct the moon when the conference) started at about 26.5° Pisces,
i.e. very close to the Kiew Rus Saturn-Neptune conjunction of 878 at 27°16' Pisces,
and of course, the two will be nearby in late Pisces / early Aries again in 2025 and 2026.
To me that smells like Russia is a major driving force of BRICS, with definitely also a power politics angle.
During the cold war, many small, poor countries had sort of the alternative between USA and USSR.
For example, the Nasser dam was built with help by the Soviet Union, and a bit later Egypt switched to the USA, if I remember correctly.
With countries being "forced" I meant not at gunpoint, at least not initially, but, say,
if you have country A with neighbors B and C with which A has lots of trade, and B and C are in BRICS,
country A has only limited freedom to join BRICS or not.
At least my presumtion is that at some point the idea of BRICS would be to impose some kind of financial penalities
if in the wrong block of the two or in no block, maybe just by making it expensive to transfer money from USD to "BRICS".
To me that would be much of Pluto in Aquarius (with the usual counterreactions).
And I guess with Sedna in Gemini, countries would essentially preserve the freedom of choice,
so that on a case-by-case basis they could decide which if the blocks to go by,
like choosing between two concete offers to buy or sell something. But maybe things will turn out differently.
I guess in many countries of the world also the EU has a better reputation than the USA,
because the EU is also doing things to protect privacy, is more peaceful generally,
and also because they do accept quite some immigration, but...
But, I do not really feel like having a sort of complete picture...
Some things about the Sedna myth instead:
In my basic interpretation, the bird her husband turns into,
is his male genitals which she discovered only after marriage and moving to his village.
Wikipedia has lots of warnings about the accuracy of the article below,
but it appears that in the past having also other sexual encounters with men would have been part of existing rituals or customs,
so that there are several birds when she is in her father's boat would just be that,
her reality in the village she was married into.
Sinking into the ocean could be suicide,
but maybe more often just sinking back into a collective female unconscious
and thus maybe gain power that was lost on the immediate plane of reality.
And today's interpretation with #MeToo and more, would, of course, be more varied...
Marriage commonly occurred when the woman reached 14–15 years of age and the man reached adulthood,
considered around 20 years of age.
The marriage was traditionally arranged by the parents of the couple, possibly as early as infanthood,
and often reflected a desire to strengthen the bond between families.
In some parts of the Arctic, men also practised the tradition of "stealing" their wife from a camp,
symbolically showing that the family did not want the daughter to leave their camp.
In these cases, the family would later celebrate together and the woman would then join the husband's territory.
[...] Marriages often served to strengthen family ties, and girls had no say in choosing their partners.
Sometimes a young man who had not yet been pledged, sent[clarification needed] to the parents of the girl,
without being personally present in those negotiations.
The wedding was completely unceremonial (the same was true for birthdays). [...]
Before Christianization (referred to as Siqqitiq by the Inuit), polygamy, more often polygyny, less so polyandry,
were not unusual among the Inuit. Extramarital relationships were accepted especially during extensive hunting trips,
and there were so-called "lamp extinction games" with ritual partner exchanges.
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_culture#Marriage
etherea said (Sun 2 Jun 2024 12:34:56 CEST):
Pluto denotes the All or Nothing, Expansion or Implosion, the Highest and the Lowest, powerlessness and infinite power,
zygotes (beginning of physical existence) and Death, Incarnation and The Ineffable. The extremes, polarity.
He is also Janus, who looks both forwards and backwards, simultaneously.
xphi... said (Sun 2 Jun 2024 22:42:06 CEST):
I think I have to postpone a reply due to external circumstances, but would like to get back to it at some later time.
With the discovery of new planets starting with Uranus, many traditional planets have lost some of their "domains"/"themes"
(via domiciles of new planets, but also otherwise), and since in the hypothesis here with Sedna as a new member of that exclusive club
it is also interesting to see what Sedna would get from where/whom, so Pluto is also important,
esp. as Sedna would come immediately after Pluto into the club.
I think I sort of have to first talk about things at large time scales,
to sort of explain how I see some things (or rather suspect them to be), including related to Pluto and Sedna...
Also because the husband of Sedna (and or the other men in the village she got to)
do have some resemblance with Pluto including in Greek myth of the abduction of Core/Persephone.
What I do not really have a good answer to, is how the discovery of Uranus fits into larger scale pictures,
as the discovery would be quite a bit too early for a beginning of an Age of Aquarius.
The beginning of the Age of Pisces would astronomically have been roughly 103 BCE (Alpha Pisces at spring point),
hence not that much before Christianity which features a ton of references to Pisces.
But the last stars of the constellation of Pisces are still far away from the spring point
(Beta Pisces is only at about 19 Pisces now, i.e. something like 700 years away from entering Aries).
And the first star of Aquarius is a similar time away from the spring point...
-- https://www.constellationsofwords.com/pisces/
-- https://www.constellationsofwords.com/aquarius/
Since it was only after roughly around 0 BCE that a tropical zodiac with 12 equally sized segments was introduced,
one might suspect that astrological ages would also have detached from that, would all be exactly 1/12 of the great year,
hence about 2150 years long, which would put the beginning of the Age of Aquarius already to about 2044,
which would still be too early to explain Uranus and other things...
So, maybe there are decanates.
In the Age of Pisces the first about 720 years (roughly untik the Hegira of 622) would have been Pisces with still some Aries elements,
then 720 years until about 1300 pure Pisces (sort of the dark middle ages),
followed by the Renaissance as Pisces with already some Aquarius elements,
with progress in architecture, technology (printing books, for example), exploring the world, steam engine, and so on.
That would be a period with already Aquarius elements, but still dominated by Pisces as a sign also without measure,
not ruled by reason, yet...
In that hypothesis, one would expect around 2044 a switch to a world in which reason would be more dominant,
the first decanate of an Age of Aquarius, with still some Pisces influence.
Actually, now that I am writing this down, it does make some sense.
Another similar approach would be to assume that during each Age starting from about the second half,
the opposite sign would also show, because there had been too much imbalance.
Hence in the Age of Taurus also large tombs (the pyramids) for Scorpio,
in ancient Greece after the wars (Age of Aries) also philosophy, mathematics, politics, and so on (Libra),
in the Age of Pisces research starting with the crusades, starting to analyze everything and anything and documenting it,
creating many disciplines of knowledge, which often do not know much about each other.
Sounds also not wrong, so at the time of the discovery of Uranus,
there would have been influences of Aquarius and maybe also of Virgo...
Astrologically, new planets got domiciles, which apparently also changed meanings of traditional planets.
Saturn got more female/traditional (Capricorn), more Janus who looks both back and forth,
less Februs who, I guess, looks just into one direction, forward to spring (Aquarius).
Jupiter got more male and fiery, lost the crazy abundance of a Dionysos somewhat, when Neptune got Pisces.
And Mars lost his dark, mistrusting side of Pluto (Scorpio), keeping only the more male/fiery side of Aries.
In that sense, new discoveries lead also to fights about power.
Considering the last major aspects of Pluto and Saturn, opposition in 2001 ("9/11") and 2020 ("Covid"),
it does not look like they agreed on who does what, yet, if ever.
Death was I guess traditionally also something for Saturn, plus Mars, the two maleficients in traditional astrology,
while now Pluto tries to grab more maybe...
To me very strange to see Pluto described as "Janus", which is quite clearly Capricorn to me,
the Roman new year a bit after the winter solstice.
How would that come about, I tried to google that, but seems not to be commonly done?
I see that with the extremes, "all or nothing" for Pluto in some sense,
but I think he is just driven to go deeper when something female and collective forces him emotionally to do so,
he is not boundless Pisces, which is part of his mistrust.
In mythology, Pluto never goes to mount Olympos, and I guess only very rarely to the surface.
Arguably, Zeus himself also never goes below the surface, except with the eyes of his messenger Hermes, only to the surface.
In any case, I think Pluto lost the "absoluteness" he had, which is why things like #MeToo could be made public at a large scale.
And I think it is symbolically related with Pluto having lost the spotlight to Sedna as defining object of this era
(until the next object further out, that would be).
I also think that maybe new planets got a bit too much coloration by their positions in the chart of the USA,
at least lately, and generally for Pluto since he was discovered in the USA.
Uranus in mythology is a dictator, but it does not really say that he would change his mind often or be progressive,
or something like that, and at least part of that reminds me of Gemini, where Uranus is in the US chart.
Similarly with Pluto in Capricorn, that would, of course, lead to a duality, a split, a Janus face...
And with Neptune I do not know in general, at least seems that in the USA with Neptune in Virgo
almost always seems close to impossible to get to down to the facts when something happened somewhere.
I forgot: One important approach to long-term changes astrologically is when fixed stars pass the spring equinox.
For example, the vertical fish of Pisces (the son, Eros) was past that point around roughly 400 BCE,
and since then it is the horizontal fish of Pisces (the mother, Aphrodite), and other.
As far as I know, it was first Jung who did this in "Aion", and Robert Hand did one in one of his essays,
plus also looked at stars at the "MC" in that view, in some stariq articles in the early 21st century.
Maybe there would be something with Gemini somewhere when Uranus was discovered...
Sorry for just splatting things out, but no energy to do this more detailed and sophisticated at the moment...
Regarding a split top/bottom: In the company I work for (about 80 people) practically all of the management is leaving,
while developers like me are so far still there, not so sure where things will go...
[They seem to have rearranged, and note that there was also Jupiter in early Gemini at the time.]
Dima Gur said (Fri 14 Jun 2024 19:07:33 CEST):
However, I'm not familiar with anyone who uses nodes for planets (in contract to Lunar nodes) in astrology.
Neither am I familiar with sites which calculate or ephemerize these positions.
This although some information is available about them online, like the fact they move very slowly.
Saying that planetary nodes move very slowly is not quite correct seen from earth
(i.e. with geocentric charts, which is what astrologers typically use).
If you intersect the planes in which a planet (say, Mars) moves around the sun
with the plane in which the earth moves around the sun (the ecliptic),
they intersect in a line that goes through the sun and crosses the path of earth around the sun at two spots,
as well as the one of the planet at two spots.
Heliocentrically, i.e. seen from the sun, these two points are exactly opposite from each other and move very slowly
(I guess mostly due to precession of the earth's axis, which would be about 1° in 72 years),
but not seen from earth, there it depends where the earth is on its yearly journey around the sun.
Mercury is much closer to the sun than earth,
so both nodes seen from the earth are relatively close-by,
today about 30° apart from each other (see table further below).
These nodes – details about defining/calculating them exactly when no planet is there aside –
are also where you can see Mercury transit as a little black dot in front of the sun.
Those are not so rare, see here:
Transit of Mercury - Wikipedia
Venus is already a bit further away from the sun, and transits are more rare,
if you missed the ones of 2004 and 2012, you have to stick around until 2117 and 2125 for the next ones
(or go to space to see that).
Transit of Venus - Wikipedia
The further an outer planet is away from the sun, the less geocentric or heliocentric makes a difference.
For example, the nodes of Saturn are these times in Capricorn and Cancer, close to the ones of Pluto,
which is also why the Saturn-Pluto conjunction of January 2020 had the two close-by in the sky, not just at the same longitude.
For a more comprehensive description see the documentation of SwissEphemeris:
swisseph documentation
I calculated current positions for today using the SwissEphemeris test page,
but at least the nodes for inner planets will change quite quickly as the earth moves around the sun...
- https://www.astro.com/cgi/swetest.cgi?b=15.6.2024&n=1&s=1&p=d&e=&f=PnN&arg=-head
Sun 0.0000000 0.0000000 0.0000000 0.0000000
Moon 12.0870755 192.0870755 12.8616543 192.8616543
Mercury 76.1679868 106.5411834 76.1681452 106.5413206
Venus 81.2845294 102.1693494 81.2843964 102.1678866
Mars 63.8015146 190.8797565 63.8031891 190.8818270
Jupiter 98.0509978 284.5734255 98.0597074 284.5870295
Saturn 110.9952207 297.0056714 111.0133249 297.0216778
Uranus 74.6375260 253.5626246 74.6481059 253.5799435
Neptune 130.6508124 313.5161485 130.6355695 313.4892284
Pluto 110.0392980 291.4472698
mean Node
true Node
mean Apogee
With signs (I hope I got all right):
North South
Mercury 16 Gem 16 Can (mean+osc same degrees)
Venus 21 Gem 12 Can (mean+osc same degrees)
Mars 3 Gen 10 Lib (mean+osc same degrees)
Jupiter 8 Can 14 Cap (mean+osc same degrees)
Saturn 21 Can 27 Cap (mean+osc same degrees)
Uranus 14 Gem 13 Sag (mean+osc same degrees)
Neptune 10 Leo 13 Aqu (mean+osc same degrees)
Pluto 20 Can 21 Cap (osc)
I do not really have much experience with these nodes, but since transits there are usually quite important,
I guess would not be wrong to take a look...
Not sure which astro software provides them, and I guess typically due to problems with defining/calculating them exactly
maybe not use them for precise timing.
BTW, here's an image with Saturn seen from the Cassini orbiter
where Saturn eclipses the sun and Saturn's rings are highlighted by the rays of the sun...
Saturn eclipsing the sun, seen from behind from the Cassini orbiter.
The image is a composite assembled from images taken by the Cassini spacecraft on 15 September, 2006.
-- https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Saturn_eclipse.jpg
PS: Here's a list with heliocentric (slow-moving) positions I got from somewhere probably 15-20 years ago,
i hope they are not wrong (and they would have moved forward a little, something like 10-20'):
Mercury's Nodes are located at 18 degrees 00' 30.8" of TAURUS and SCORPIO in the Zodiac.
Venus' Nodes are located at 16 degrees 26' 05.0" of GEMINI and SAGITTARIUS in the Zodiac.
Mars' Nodes are located at 19 degrees 20' 51.1" of TAURUS and SCORPIO in the Zodiac.
Jupiter's Nodes are located at 10 degrees 10' 15.6" of CANCER and CAPRICORN in the Zodiac.
Saturn's Nodes are located at 23 degrees 26' 13.7'' of CANCER and CAPRICORN in the Zodiac.
Uranus' Nodes are located at 13 degrees 51' 31.3" of GEMINI and SAGITTARIUS in the Zodiac.
Neptune's Nodes are located at 11 degrees 31' 11.6'' of LEO and AQUARIUS in the Zodiac.
Pluto's Nodes are at 20 degrees 01' 42.2" of CANCER and CAPRICORN in the Zodiac.
I would say that even those might have some importance, if maybe not in transits then maybe in more general terms
as a "coloration" of themes of the respective planet for a period of about 2150 years...
Mercury and Mars are close-by around 20° Taurus, which may have influenced recent conjunctions of Uranus and Jupiter there?
And maybe, since they would have been close-by in the sky for centuries or millennia (albeit also in different signs in the past),
it might explain some similarities between Mars and Mercury in mythology, like the Discouri twin brothers who practice sports and war?
Venus and Uranus are close-by around mid Gemini, and I presume might have been close to each other for centuries or millennia,
which might resonate with the myth of how Aphrodite/Venus was born from sea foam where the severed genitals of Uranus had been thrown?
For Saturn and Pluto the nodes are, of course, also close-by heliocentrically, and Jupiter is not that far away.
And maybe that could explain some power struggles/fights between them?
Neptune at about 11° Leo...
Hm, maybe also resonates with Kafka's "The Castle", c.f. recent post around that by me?
I am not sure if in a chart from 1291 you can really/fully interpret Pluto and Sedna as for an event today,
but at the foundation of Switzerland there was a constellation involving Sedna, Pluto and Neptune
that is somewhat similar to how it is today:
There is Pluto at 7° Aquarius, i.e. a bit further ahead than today, and Sedna conjunct at 9° Aquarius,
both at a trine to Neptune at 6° Libra....
The date for the chart is approximate, based on the earliest existing document of the three founding regions (later "cantons")
expressing to support each other, which is dated "early in August 1291".
The Federal Charter of 1291
The document translated to English:
https://www.admin.ch/dam/gov/de/Bundesrat/Staatskunde/Englische%20Übersetzung.pdf.download.pdf/Englische%20Übersetzung.pdf
Or in the orginal Latin:
https://www.admin.ch/dam/gov/de/Bundesrat/Staatskunde/Lateinisches%20Original.pdf.download.pdf/Lateinisches%20Original.pdf
There is some debate about this document and what exactly it meant, but in 1315 the three cantons defeated an army sent by Habsburg,
in 1332 Lucerne joined them, in 1351 Zürich joined, and so on over centuries until the early 19th century.
Switzerland itself is, however, slow to join other communities.
It is not a member of the EU (nor even the EEA) and joined the UN very late, in 2002, after a public vote which was about 54% for joining,
with 13 cantons for it, 13 against it, including the three founding cantons of 1291.
Being between large countries during most of its existence, with Germany north, Italy south, France west, Austria east,
one outcome in Switzerland might have been that it would have gone from one occupation to another over centuries,
but somehow the small country managed to balance the powers.
(And in the first centuries, it was part of the German Reich, just directly below the emperor,
no blue blooded lower princes or duke, etc. in between.)
But anyways, I guess my recommendation to smaller, poorer countries would be to unite among themselves first,
and balance the larger countries like USA, EU, China, Russia, India,
and also to some degree economically strong smaller ones like Japan and Germany, etc.
And, why do practically no countries introduce direct democracy of a binding nature, power to the people?
Would solve so many things... Just do it...
The current conference at Bürgenstock around the Ukraine is almost in one of the three founding cantons,
just a few steps into canton Lucerne.
What in my feeling got neutral Switzerland to support sanctions against Russia was not so much an alliance with the West,
or at least not only.
It is about not going back in history, about no longer having large countries conquer smaller countries
and making them part of their territory (also because Switzerland is itself a small country,
wants large countries to essentially stick to international law).
Things should be settled differently in these times.
Yes, there are primarily Russians living in the Crimea, and quite a majority in the 2-3 regions to the east at the sea,
so, even despite Russia in the past purposely inhabiting other regions (as also in the baltic states),
it is not really fair if those regions should go 100% to a "Western-oriented" Ukraine,
except in a fashion in which Russian culture and language would have a place.
But, I guess the forces are still somewhat different.
I guess with the upcoming return of Saturn-Neptune to the conjunction of the Kiew Rus,
going to Kiew is a very strong desire for Russia...
Anywaysm, not sure if that post finds much interest...
I still want to read the French book I bought the day Sedna went into Gemini,
the one (of the three) with Marilyn Monroe...
I like that the charts for Labour and Conservatives are not on the same page in this thread...
For the Tories (12 Nov 1867) Sedna is at 0°11' Aries, i.e. close to Neptune now and on election day,
and, of course, also very close to the Saturn-Neptune conjunction of 2026 at 0°45' Aries.
Labour (12 Feb 1906) has Sedna at 9°15' Aries, somewhat conjunct their natal Mars at 5°39 Aries,
and closer to the n.node on election day (true and mean n.nodes at 11.x° Aries).
The Liberal Party (6 Jun 1859) has Sedna at 29°07' Pisces, close to Neptune now, and Neptune then (27°00' Pisces).
The Reform Party (5 Feb 2019) has Sedna at 26°18' Taurus, i.e. very close to Algol in 2019 at 26°26' Taurus.
If Sedna had some weight in current times, likely the outcome would mirror that in part...
Not having any clue what is happening in British politics, just from the above,
I would suspect it looks good for the Liberal Party (resp. Liberal Democrats),
and also for the Tories, more so than for Labour or the Reform Party,
if only because of the wild horses and Neptune, but probably way to superficial...
delira said:
Hi Wanda,
mich würde ja brennend interessieren, wie deine Deutungsmethode aussieht,
die du im Synastrie-Faden von Weites Land angewendet hast (Irgendwie ist der Faden nicht mehr da).
Die Prognose, wie Beziehungen weitergehen.
Wie gehst du das an? Hat das auch die vedische Astrologie zur Grundlage?
(Dann würde es mir wohl leider zu kompliziert werden).
Link zum obigem Zitat vom 1. Juni 2024: https://www.astrologyinternational.org/forum/index.php?threads/vedische-astrologie.734/post-17033
Klingt so wie wenn das ev. auch auf den gesuchten Faden verweisen würde...
Here is Chief Arvol Looking Horse speaking in 2010, in front of a phantastically beautiful landscape.
He is the keeper of the sacred white buffalo calf pipe and bundle in the 19th generation since the age of 12.
Click "CC" for autogenerated subtitles (CC = "closed captions") on Youtube or get the same text as a single transcript here:
YouTube Transcript - read YouTube videos
He says that there was no white buffalo calf born until 1994 and since then one almost every year
and that the color changes of the white woman as a bull were black-red-yellow-white, rolling west.
Those are the four colors for the four points of the compass in the "Lakota Medicine Wheel":
Lakota Medicine Wheel : Aktá Lakota Museum & Cultural Center
As it says there:
There is [n]o common expression for the color placement on the medicine wheel.
It is found that color placement varies based on individual tribal customs.
Such assignments of colors and animals to points of the compass also exist in China and very likely also in the West...
The colors are the same as written down since about the second century CE for the four elements in the West (Antiochus of Athens):
- yellow - fire
- red - air
- white - water
- black - earth
In alchemy apparently the typical order was black-white-yellow-red.
And likely the really ancient one just the colors in the order of a ripening mulberry (or other berries)
white-red-black plus maybe a light green/yellow for catkins...
(in ancient Greek leukos-pyrros-melas and chloros,
also the colors of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse in the bible, in that order)
I wrote quite a lot about these things in the past, just follow the white rabbit...
And regarding 1994: Was there something special about 1994 according to Western astrology?
Chief Arvol Looking Horse relates her return to climate change,
and when the calf would change its color to the second color (yellow, I guess?), that would be a warning...
I think I read that white calfs can change color when they get older, maybe even not so rare.
Maybe the order of the transformations of the white woman black-red-yellow-white was simply white to black reversed.
xphi... said (Sun 16 Jun 2024 16:04:36 CEST):
And regarding 1994: Was there something special about 1994 according to Western astrology?
I think I found something very interesting.
First a little preamble...
I am sure most astrologers look at the Jupiter-Saturn cycles, especially at their conjunctions every 20 years.
According to Rabbi Joel C. Dobin in "Kabbalistic Astrology" at least in Jewish tradition
this would be when god would pass down his laws from the outermost planet to the next inner one.
Now, today in 2024, from an astronomical perspective, the two outermost known planets are Uranus and Neptune.
(Pluto is a bit further out than Neptune, but not dominant in its region,
Eris is practically the same size and there are other similar objects there, so it is rather only a belt of objects.)
Hence most important (at least until an other planet further out was discovered) would be Uranus-Neptune conjunctions.
The last ones were in 1993, three in that year, with the last and thus in the most common view
the one that defines the themes for the next period, which will be until the year 2165...
Further below a chart for the last of the three conjunctions 24 Oct 1993 for "Yellowstone National Park"...
-- Source: https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/historyculture/associatedtribes.htm
Calculation of the exact conjunction with swetest:
$ swetest -b24.10.1993 -ut20:07:41 -n1 -s1 -p78 -fPTlL -head
Uranus 24.10.1993 20:07:41 UT 288.5444733 288°32'40.1038
Neptune 24.10.1993 20:07:41 UT 288.5444733 288°32'40.1038
And finally the chart:
Yeah, the conjunction is very close to the AC, hence very present there, and thus maybe also for the world,
and there is one of the "moon asteroids" there, too, the one rather responsible for the end of the cycle,
while it is also cyclically also always a new beginning, too.
That was something I was not expecting today...
I hope knowing this will in some ways be rather beneficial to the world than the opposite
PS: In case it is not obvious, as far as I know there would normally no calfs be born in autumn or winter,
hence the next opportunity after the conjunction would have been the following spring of 1994,
which is when apparently the first white buffalo was born...
[In reply to annait's post that started with
"The date of the federal letter reminds me of the Decameron.
That was about 60 years later when Neptune came to Sedna in Aquarius."]
I just saw that Petrarca's account of this ascent of Mont Ventoux was probably not written
around the time he dates the letter in the text (26 April 1336 (jul.))
but about 15 years later in 1350, i.e. also almost 60 years after the federal letter,
along with Decameron and the black plague...
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascent_of_Mont_Ventoux
The Neptune-Sedna conjunction in Aquarius would have been around 1348,
and the black plague arrived something like then on main lands of Central Europe
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
I read before that in the 19th century many of the new national states were doing research for old documents
also in order to create a common base or myth for the nation, or however you would want to call it.
I have a book about Swiss history with quite a bit of new research and seems carefully/neutrally done,
but I did not read much there, so far.
[I started this thread around the 20th anniversary of the first publication of my core idea (19 June 2004),
not even being fully aware of that myself (see a bit further below).
At first I was confident that in its core the idea would be sound and mirror nature and life.
As I am collecting the posts in this document (Dec 2024 with Mercury retrograde)
I am strangely getting more confident again, maybe just "delusional hope" as in the myth around Pandora, maybe really a Renaissance of the idea.
In one of the posts below I speculate that I would have to wait until Neptune returns to its station in very late Pisces in spring 2025.]
Hi everybody...
This is some kind of trial balloon to test the waters,
in the hope they might be at a good temperature for at least some here to read and maybe reply...
This thread is about my most fundamental idea, almost 20 years ago in spring 2005...
Coming from immediate personal experience of life and the world on what appears to be two "movie screens" where life happens,
one outside and one inside the mind, a different view of the world emerges.
One in which there is quickly something that reminds in many aspects of the four classical elements Fire, Air, Water and Earth,
and there is also something that reminds of the fifth element.
And there is also how they transform into each other, in a cycle, which reminds of Aristotle's cycle of the classical elements,
and also these transformations are found in the signs of the zodiac, as I hope to show.
Also, some properties of these newly defined elements suggest that inside things would be connected between people,
which would also provide a quite natural explanation of how astrology works,
and also other things like oracles, deities, precognition, and more.
In the beginning, things I describe might seem a bit unusual, maybe quite abstract.
I cannot completely change that, but what I can say is that the hardest part is the initial steps,
after that it gets easier and (I hope and think) quite rewarding...
The initial situation is that you would imagine you had just been born and would open your eyes for the first time and see.
You would see some things outside, of which some would move and some would rest,
but you would a priori have no idea at all what is what, not even what is attached to what.
For example, in a scenery with a lawn and a tree and some clouds,
you would not know that the different parts of the tree would be connected or the lawn, etc.
And there would also be a second "movie screen" inside your mind, where you could also picture such a scenery...
Now, as a teaser this: Imagine you are looking at such a scenery with a tree and close your eyes.
You could imagine the same scene in your mind.
But could you keep it like that? Most likely not, very quickly your mind would wander to different images and thoughts.
Conversely, outside you could look at the scenere for a long time and not much would change...
In some abstract sense this means that outside often "resting" is more common, is more passive than moving,
while inside it is the opposite, there motion is what seems to be the more common state of things, the more passive one..
.
Oh, well, maybe let me just try to go one step further and define 4 "elements"
that way and hint at which classical element they resemble:
- moves outside - fire (motion outside active)
- rests outside - earth (resting outside passive)
- moves inside - water (motion inside passive)
- rests inside - air (resting inside active)
So the traditionally "male" elements would be active, the traditionally "female" ones would be passive.
Is that so far something that "computes" to you folks here? Or, if not, where did I lose you?
Roman H. said (Tue 18 Jun 2024 14:22:50 CEST):
Psychologically, the first years of a child, all is one, no outside or inside.
I do not think that is true, but would like to postpone discussing that,
just change "The initial situation is that you would imagine you had just been born and would open your eyes for the first time and see."
to "The initial situation is that you would imagine you would open your eyes for the first time and see.",
i.e. for now take the perspective of an adult (yourself) giving the experience of life and the world a completely fresh look.
(I have a memory of a memory, more precisely a memory that at around the age of 3-4 when my consciousness emerged
that I had in my memory the first thing I saw when I was born, which was apparently the white ceiling with lights on it.)
Roman H. said (Tue 18 Jun 2024 14:22:50 CEST):
Also, the most of what you see with your eyes, is going a long complicated way through your brain, until a picture.
The approach here is to come from direct experience, in which view a brain plus physical sensory organs
and so on would come only in as a quite convoluted concept, based in today's science mostly on observation outside.
Roman H. said (Tue 18 Jun 2024 14:22:50 CEST):
So, what is real, what is the picture? What the camera (eye) shows is real.
Other animals have different eyes (but only human beings make pictures),
and I see with closed eyes while I sleep/dream, as do other animals, too.
The brain is always processing information.
When processing the information, the resulting picture, the final result is of what I feel and think.
So yes, that‘s elements water and air !!
I do not quite agree with the above statements, but I prefer to explain my approach first.
Roman H. said (Tue 18 Jun 2024 14:22:50 CEST):
The interesting point is intuition…
Another point is that the outside is moving always, too. The stone has not always been a stone etc., and at that place.
When I wrote "moves" above I meant that strictly as motion/movement that can be immediately perceived.
For example, clouds often move so slowly that you cannot see them move if you just look for a second,
but if you look a minute or so later, you will see some changes.
Such "movement" is not what I mean, this is already a more complex construct that requires memory and comparing images,
while immediately observable motion like a bird flying or an apple falling from a tree are much more basic experiences.
Actually, it is even in a way "time" itself in its most immediate manifestation, as something changing or not.
Now, you could argue that if you are looking at a scenery in which nothing moves outside,
that then time does not stop in personal experience.
Well, in this approach to life and the world this would be because inside there would still be motion.
People who meditate often close their eyes or go somewhere calm without movement.
And they try to achieve stillness of the mind.
And when they do, they experience it as if time would have stopped to flow.
In this picture simply because both outside and inside movement disappeared.
Roman H. said (Tue 18 Jun 2024 15:04:21 CEST):
No air element outside, no earth element inside?
In the immediate sense this is rather a misunderstanding of how I defined elements, let me come back to such things later.
I also see a connection to China around there, but rather around the trigrams (bagua) of the I Ching (Yijing),
where the "Greek elements" seem to appear in pairs.
Roman H. said (Tue 18 Jun 2024 15:04:21 CEST):
Fire needs air, so there is maybe no fire outside?
Water needs earth (to form oceans etc.) so maybe there is no water inside?
Well, there is more than inside and outside, the part where they have an intersection.
I guess that‘s what you aim at. 5th element in chinese astrology is metal.
Wikipedia quote follows:
[...]
The 5 Wu Xing in China are primarily the 5 planets Mercury to Saturn, as also their name implies,
which like in the West "planet" simply means that they are moving across the sky unlike the fixed stars.
Having named the Wu Xing "elements" in the West is to some degree a misnomer in my view.
Also, if pointing out one of the 5, that would often be Earth (also in the zodiac),
the "element" from which the others all come from and go to.
Water from a spring, Wood growing out of the earth, Metal dug out, Fire from volcanoes,
while there are also cycles between all 5.
But this is also leading off-track for me for the moment.
Let me define the elements in my view:
emo := what moves outside (~"fire")
ero := what rests outside (~"earth")
emi := what moves inside (~"water")
eri := what rests inside (~"air")
So emo is the element that moves outside,
just the first letters of element/moves/outside,
and similarly for the other three.
Now, again, which "moves" I mean strictly only what can be discerned immediately as movement.
Somewhat abstractly, movement would be related to time in immediate experience or even be time in that sense,
while in/out and also what separates the different things outside and inside
would be related to space in immediate experience or even be space in that sense.
And I define a fifth element simply as:
e5 := what transforms the above four elements into each other (~"aether"/"ether")
Let me rest it at that for now...
Haley Reinhart - Light My Fire ft Robby Krieger from The Doors (Live at The Troubadour)
xphi... said (Sun 16 Jun 2024 16:04:36 CEST):
Those are the four colors for the four points of the compass in the "Lakota Medicine Wheel":
Lakota Medicine Wheel : Aktá Lakota Museum & Cultural Center
As it says there:
There is [n]o common expression for the color placement on the medicine wheel.
It is found that color placement varies based on individual tribal customs.
Seems that the colored "Medicine Wheel" symbol was mostly an invention by a non-native American in 1972:
Charles Storm, pen name Hyemeyohsts Storm, was the son of a German immigrant who claimed to be Cheyenne;
he misappropriated and misrepresented Native American teachings and symbols from a variety of different cultures,
claiming that they were Cheyenne, such as some symbolism connected to the Plains Sun dance,
to create the modern Medicine Wheel symbol around 1972.
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_wheel_(symbol)
xphi... said (Wed 19 Jun 2024 06:08:28 CEST):
Let me define the elements in my view:
emo := what moves outside (~"fire")
ero := what rests outside (~"earth")
emi := what moves inside (~"water")
eri := what rests inside (~"air")
So emo is the element that moves outside,
just the first letters of element/moves/outside,
and similarly for the other three.
[...]
And I define a fifth element simply as:
e5 := what transforms the above four elements into each other (~"aether"/"ether")
Let me illustrate things a bit. Here is an image featuring the famous "Joshua Appletree":
(OUTSIDE)
(The base image is public domain, no attribution required,
link,
also other images are public domain unless mentioned)
Well, not really, just a regular Joshua Tree
with some bright red apples placed there by me, and notice that one of them is just falling down,
emphasized with the yellow dots around it.
And there is a black bird sitting on the tree.
Everything except the falling apple rests in that image, so all of that would be ero,
while borders between "chunks" of ero would be roughly where differences can be see,
different colors and/or brightness and/shape and not too small to tell apart.
So, the bird, for example, is of uniform color, but could maybe be split up into beak,
head and body or something like this.
The individual spiky "leaves" would mostly be "chunks" of ero each.
And the falling apple except maybe splitting up into stem and body would he a single "chunk" of emo.
After hitting the ground, the apple might first bounce a bit, and then rest again, so would turn to ero.
Since generally things rather tend to come to rest outside than the opposite,
this suggests that the outside world is rather hard and consequently creating movement requires energy,
hence both ero and emo would be hard, while ero would be passive (as it does not move)
and emo would be active (as it manages to move in the hard outside world).
Now imagine you closed you eyes and imagined the above outside scene inside.
At first it would look the same, at least to the amount of detail you would imagine.
But then your mind would typically quickly deviate to other thoughts:
(INSIDE after a few seconds)
For example, you might imagine an apple of think of Newton (if you are a physicist)
and the story how he was thinking about gravitation when he saw an apple fall down,
or see the basic formula for gravitational force near the surface of earth,
and maybe imagine the smaller tree at the foot of the larger one a bit bigger because you are focussing on it,
and so on, the longer you have your eyes closed, usually the more you will deviate from the original image...
Hence, conversely, inside would be rather soft, i.e. eri and emi would be soft,
and staying put would conversely require energy, so emi would be passive and eri would be active.
If you are familiar with Aristotle's takes on elements, things might now start to become quite familiar,
let me just create a comparison table and give an overview of Aristotle in a next post ...
| ero | hard | passive | earth | dry (and hard/brittle) | cold (and passive*) |
| emo | hard | active | fire | dry (and hard/brittle) | hot (and active*) |
| eri | soft | active | air | wet (and soft/malleable) | hot (and active*) |
| emi | soft | passive | water | wet (and soft/malleable | cold (and passive*) |
* Aristotle did not yet associate hot/cold with active/passive (or male/female, etc.),
that apparently emerged later on during Hellenism, with Stoics I think...
If you associate air with mind/logic and water with feelings,
it often makes sense that feelings are constantly flowing/moving while with logic you can sort of stabilize things,
for example, the thought 1+1 = 2 is something static if remembered.
From the perspective of contemporary science that inside there is normally movement would be
because the brain is seen as a living organ, fueled with energy from outside.
Certainly consistent from that perspective, and it is also so that outside what moves
if often also living beings (at least animals).
But the view presented here that comes strictly from individual experience of the world
is also fairly consistent, and (drum roll) seems to lead to something
that is at least similar to the classical elements...
A short review of Aristotle's views on elements, based mainly on his "On Generation and Corruption",
but also on other texts.
Aristotle first argues why he bases his view on the sense of touch. His arguments are difficult to follow,
but if you consider elements (at least also) literal matter in the world, that certainly makes sense.
He identifies several pairs of opposites that can be sensed by touching: hot/cold, dry/wet, hard/soft, brittle/malleable.
Then he argues that dry/wet is the same as hard/soft and brittle/malleable, again hard to follow his arguments,
but at least for a chunk of earth, if it dries up it gets harder and more brittle.
So he defines the four familiar elements like this:
| fire | hot | dry (implicitly hard, brittle) | mainly hot |
| earth | cold | dry (implicitly hard, brittle) | mainly dry |
| air | hot | wet (implicitly soft, malleable) | mainly wet |
| water | cold | wet (implicitly soft, malleable) | mainly cold |
That already makes is somewhat evident that he cannot have been talking exclusively about literal matter.
Fire hot and dry certainly makes sense, but hard and brittle?
That he made the element air primarily wet is even less natural, as air can be both dry and wet
and, of course, because wet essentially just a different say of saying contains water...
(Psychologically in astrology, these things make more sense, at least that fire signs maybe rather
do have fixed visions of things that can either stay as they are or break,
while air signs have often more flexible goals.)
Aristotle does not write the same things about elements in all of his texts.
As David E. Hahn argues in "Origins of Stoic Cosmology", he may not have aimed for a uniform theory for all of the world,
might have made a difference between medicine and other topics, for example.
But he also does not contradict himself often.
Aristotle postulated a firth element aether/ether that would only occur high in the sky
(where the planets and stars move).
Other than the four elements down on earth which would move linearly,
the fifth element would move in circles.
And he also put the four elements in a circle, in which at each transition one of the properties changes
(while he did not completely exclude that both could change at the same time.
Fire gets wet, turns to air, gets cold, turns to water, dries up, turns to earth, gets warmer,
becomes fire again, and also the other way round.
As I can show in a following post, also the elements I defined would seem to go in the same circle,
but let me postpone this...
Is what I exposed so far somewhat "tangible"? Is anybody reading?
Maybe something(s) I could explain a bit more in detail?
I am not claiming that what I am doing here is perfect, it cannot be because it is also of a philosophical nature,
starts very early where not much is given, yet, but that aside,
in my view it is way more than just another perspective at the world,
it is one that clearly leads to concepts like "elements" without being seemingly "outside" of science,
rather making such things more amenable to science, and - as I hope to show -
also quite specific things about elements and zodiac signs for astrology...
Roman H. said (Sun 23 Jun 2024 01:51:55 CEST):
What is your theory? One sentence?
xphi... said (Mon 17 Jun 2024 19:28:52 CEST):
Coming from immediate personal experience of life and the world on what appears to be two "movie screens" where life happens,
one outside and one inside the mind, a different view of the world emerges.
The rest so far has accordingly been deriving things from observation from that "immediate personal experience" angle.
Since the next steps would be around transformations between the four elements
(as defined earlier as combinations of in/out and rest/move)
and would also be connected to the fifth element e5
(as defined earlier as "what transforms the above four elements into each other"),
let me also say this:
"in" and "out" in the definitions of emo/ero/emi/eri further above are in personal experience,
i.e. all four are in a way part of the "psyche",
so maybe not astonishingly also transformations between elements "inside" and "outside" seem to happen.
And transformations of the zodiac signs will be transformations along that.
But exposing that will again take time.
Maybe I will just continue, as long as there are no specific questions...
There is not really a way around going step by step, and some faith in that it is worth to make these steps seems unavoidable.
As I wrote, the beginning here is the hardest, because it is unusual and maybe for most people a bit "abstract",
while how hard is maybe a bit difficult to judge for me as a physicist, to me such thinking is quite natural and obvious...
I defined e5 (a fifth element) as what makes the elements transform into each other.
In immediate personal observation you have some influence on what happens both inside and outside.
But that influence is rather limited.
Outside you can pick up a stone but not the moon, and even if you do nothing some things keep on moving.
Inside, in principle, for a short time, you can imagine anything, but as soon as you stop to focus on that,
it usually dissolves again, like the image of the tree further above.
Hence e5 would probably have to with personal will but some of it would rather be given, you might even call it fate.
Some transformations you would just have to live with, there would often not be much you can do about them.
But now to individual transformations in detail, the definitions again:
emo := what moves outside (~"fire") - active
ero := what rests outside (~"earth") - passive
emi := what moves inside (~"water") - passive
eri := what rests inside (~"air") - active
Outside things can start to move or stop to move, i.e. emo and ero can transform into each other.
Similarly, inside things can start to move or stop to move, i.e. also emi and eri can transform into each other.
Transformations between inside and outside are a bit more abstract, so maybe I will simplify or at least shorten that here,
so that I could get to the zodiac a bit more quickly...
Let me assume that at the transition between in and out "energy" is preserved,
i.e. an active element inside becomes and active element outside and vice versa,
and a passive element inside becomes a passive element outside and vice versa.
So there would be these 4 transformations between in and out:
eri => emo ("air => fire"):
Loosely speaking an active thought/intention/will ("air") that leads to active motion outside ("fire")
emo => eri ("fire => air"):
Loosely speaking the mind inside learning new static "laws of nature" ("air") by observing what is happening outside ("fire")
emi => ero ("water => earth"):
Loosely speaking feelings ("water") apparently helpless against the state of the world ("earth")
ero => emo ("earth => water"):
Loosely speaking the state of the world outside ("earth") causing feelings inside ("water")
Since, for example, emi could also transform to eri ("water => air"),
loosely speaking the state of the world outside ("earth") causing feelings inside ("water")
can then also lead to insights and intentions inside ("air")
that can then lead to movement outside ("fire").
This yields the same circle as Aristotle proposed: fire-air-water-earth-fire-...
Or with the defined elements: emo-eri-emi-ero-emo-...
Note that this relates e5 quite directly to a cycle of the four elements,
which would in a way directly mirror Aristotle's view of the fifth element as going in circles.
Now to the zodiac, maybe let me start with this image:
This shows four 3-step transformations along the cycle of elements,
which I link from experience to transformations of the zodiac signs:
| ero => emo => eri | earth => fire => air |
Aries => Leo => Aquarius | Fire that burns wood to smoke |
| ero => emi => eri | earth => water => air |
Cancer => Scorpio => Pisces | River from source ("ice"") to the sea |
| emo => eri => emi | fire => air => water |
Gemini => Libra => Aquarius | Cloud with lightning and rain |
| emo => ero => emi | fire => earth => water |
Taurus => Virgo => Capricorn | Tree needs sunlight and water |
So, for example, Aries would be a young fire, still quite a bit tied to reality, the element earth,
the wood (or other material) that the fire is eating or also transforming into smoke ("air").
So Aries wants to go high, and is also as a young flame protective of his things that are rather few/small.
So for Aries, mostly earth, growing fire, but not much air, yet, i.e. not very reasonable.
Leo would be an adult fire, with primary focus on fire, still ample wood ("earth") to burn,
and already some rational consciousness emerged (smoke, "air").
Liz Greene writes this about Leo in "The Astrology of Fate":
But the lion is a stage in a process, as Jung suggests; and it is this process or pattern
which brings us into the sphere of the `fate' of Leo.
It would seem [...] that there is an alchemical work to be performed.
The Lion is not permitted to remain in its bestial form, but must give way to something other.
That is exactly that. Earth is also the own body that is consumed by the fire of life.
Towards the 3rd fire sign, Sagittarius, the wound that is already present as a Leo theme
around the Percival story gets deadly for Chiron.
So while the physical body perishes, is wounded, also wisdom ("air") emerges,
insights into life and so on...
Unlike the physical body, such wisdom can be formulated as words and passed on to later generations.
And similarly, with the other three elements. I could expand a little on that, if desired.
And, of course, I did not use the definitions of emi/eri/emo/ero to describe the signs directly.
Is also not something I feel I can fully do just yet,
but there is one example where I can, namely Libra, the middle air sign:
So, Libra would be the middle element of a transformation fire=>air=>water, or emo=>eri=>emi.
In mythology (see also e.g. "The Astrology of Fate") the human Teiresias has his eyesight ("fire")
taken by Hera because she did not like the insightful (even though partial) answer he gave
to a question he was forced to answer.
Conversely, Zeus, who liked that answer, gave Teiresias the gift of "inner vision".
In terms of the transformations emo=>eri=>emi, this means that his mind (eri/"air")
is naturally transitioning from looking outside what is moving (emo/"fire")
towards what he feels inside (emi/"water"),
along the natural transformation of the air signs that goes inside in the end.
Note that all four transformations of the signs start "outside" and go "inside".
Is that maybe an incentive that could make it worth to read all here more in detail
and ask specifically when something is not clear?
(And I guess I have overall no better answer than even though I may not be able to argue
for each step without alternatives, the end result is quite stunning,
leads to the zodiac in a new way, while reproducing all the myths around it
and also generally the largely the experience people, have with these signs...)
Roman H. said (Sun 23 Jun 2024 01:51:55 CEST):
What is your theory? One sentence?
xphi... said (Mon 17 Jun 2024 19:28:52 CEST):
Coming from immediate personal experience of life and the world on what appears to be two "movie screens" where life happens,
one outside and one inside the mind, a different view of the world emerges.
Currently, in the view of contemporary scientists elements fire/air/water/earth (and ether)
are at most of historical interest, from that viewpoint they have nothing whatsoever to do with nature.
Astrologers and other people still like such concepts and see them reflect in their lives,
while nothing of that has been formally scientifically proven.
What I present is a natural approach to life and the world as experienced
that leads naturally to something at least very familiar to the 4+1 classical elements
(and their transformations and the zodiac), or also the 8 trigrams of the Chinese I Ching,
and likely other similar concepts world-wide...
And it goes even beyond that, as I guess I already sketched in the initial post,
it also leads to natural explanations of why/how astrology mirrors people's lives,
and also explains things like telepathy, precognition, deities, and more...
Naively, I would guess that is quite an incentive to give this a closer look.
Among other things this might be a way for astrology to "get out of the closet",
become part of the public mainstream...
Here's a chart for the day the "Confederate States of America" (CSA) were founded according to Wikipedia,
Neptune at 27°33' Pisces (with Sedna at 28°41' Pisces), Mars in Aries, Saturn in Virgo.
And here the chart for the attack on Fort Sumter, beginning of the civil war,
Neptune close to where it is today, almost at the end of the cycle at 29°58' Pisces (and Sedna at 29°16' Pisces),
both early in the first house, Mars already in Gemini.
-- Source for time 04:30: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/civil-war/battles/fort-sumter
I think the expectations of Neptune in Aries might be misleading, might be oriented to much on modern astrological texts
that see Neptune akin to the sign it/he rules, Pisces.
In Greek mythology Poseidon is quite different from that, a very stubborn guy, with little developed consciousness.
He sent the white bull from the sea to King Minos, and which part of his anatomy attracted his wife Parsiphae
is well-known ("Daedalus Encounter") that lead to the Minotaurus,
so I do not really expect a "dreamy/fluffy" Neptune in Aries, but will see...
Still some time away, is not crossing Jordan just yet, will turn around in about a week, I guess, about 1 July...
[…]
xphi... said (Mon 17 Jun 2024 19:28:52 CEST):
This is some kind of trial balloon to test the waters, in the hope they might be at a good temperature
for at least some here to read and maybe reply...
So far not really much... But maybe a bit too early to give up just yet...
Maybe a reboot, and ask step by step...
Would you all agree that to a typical adult who is awake life seems to play sort of on two "movie screens",
one apparently inside and one outside?
(Literal object like a pencil or a shoe can appear outside or inside and usually you could tell the difference, right?
I mean the difference between a pencil you see or use outside and one that you imagine inside, right?
And similarly, for example, with a song, you could usually tell whether it is playing outside
and you are hearing it or whether it is just in your head, right?)
[…]
[…]
[In reply to Anna's post #13 in the thread.
A full quote of her reply can be found in a later reply by me.
As it will turn out, her reply lead me to discover that I had made one relatively blunt mistake in my core idea.
Or at least so it appears to almost certainly be…]
Thanks a lot for the reply...
I wrote "typical" because in the opening post I had written
"The initial situation is that you would imagine you had just been born and would open your eyes for the first time and see.",
and later regretted to have written "just been born".
So, I thought I wanted to also exclude states like drunk or sleeping/dreaming and people who are sort of clearly different than others,
"crazy" people who would often not able to live on their own or be considered a danger to others, that sort if thing.
That is why I wrote "a typical adult who is awake".
Maybe I could have writtten "an average adult who is awake and not under influence of drugs that completely change perception of things
and also not meditating, or doing anything that changes the general perception of life".
If you are, say, in a restaurant and some music is playing, I would have said that the typical experience of that
is that the sound is coming from outside oneself.
Conversely, if you remember a song or if it just pops up in your mind, I would have said that the typical experience
would be that the song is only playing in yourself and typically others cannot hear what you are hearing.
But maybe if you hear the song outside it is automatically also inside, the identical thing then.
And the same with what you see outside or smell, touch, taste, etc.
So maybe there would only be either both outside and inside or only inside,
but that seems not 100% correct to me, even though there is something to it.
I guess one difference might be focus. You often already focus only on part of what you see or hear, etc.
So that inside not all you see and hear would be reflected or at least not in the say way or with the same weight.
Something I observed in the summer at the beach is that if you look at a scene and then close your eyes,
what is in focus with closed eyes is usually the few things that moved, but frozen at that moment.
(In terms of transformations that would be emo => eri, active to active, as proposed.)
Also, if I would have already consciously focussed on something before closing my eyes,
that would (also) be visible prominently in my mind just after closing my eyes.
(In that case there would have already been emi before closing my eyes.)
Maybe in the end my approach is not completely natural, more of a different paradigm.
Similar to in the Renaissance where gradually what you observed/measured in the outside world became dominant.
No longer did the bible and people's beliefs define whether everything turns around earth or not,
but observing Jupiter's moons with a telescope was eventually accepted as proof that not everything turns around earth.
That emerging scientific approach is at least in my view a limited approach to the world,
but it has proven to very useful at least when it comes to build devices/machines and to heal diseases and much more.
It did in my view not really answer many fundamental questions.
At least to me my approach seems very fruitful at least as an additional way to look at the world.
And it would be first approach I know that would often use scientific reasoning and get to both current science
but also to 4+1 elements, zodiac signs, astrology, deities, etc.
Yes, I am aware that there is also sleeping and dreaming, and trance and drunkenness,
and visions and people tell of apparitions and miracles, and so on. This is all very interesting.
In my approach the inside world is softer, also more malleable in Aristotle's words,
so one might imagine that in the inside world things would more likely mix
and thus might even be mixed between different individuals.
This might explain, for example, why some themes that occur in dreams are so universal,
do repeat in different people who have nothing directly to do with each other.
In way they might just look inside at the same thing that might just exist once.
But, of course, that is not the only possibility.
Also, via this mixing, people would be connected.
I am not sure if I can derive that, but regarding emi ("water") I would expect people to be emotionally connected,
even across what seems outside like large distances
And eri ("air") has in some sense a universal nature in itself, like mathematical truths like
that if you add up the angles of a triangle you always get 180°.
In any case, I would interpret such connections as what makes what Jung called the "collective unconscious"
or people in more ancient times "Gods" and "Goddesses".
The collective unconscious would be largely unconscious to individual people but in itself as a larger,
composed being it would have its own intentions, feelings, thoughts, etc.
And due to its different perspective, it could see things or plan them that would seem "divine" to individual people.
For example, if it planned something, it could dream about it,
and such dreams could reflect in individuals and would appear as precognition
if they later materialized as collectively planned by the collective unconscious.
(Detail: I would assume that there would be different levels of such collective beings,
at different scales, like there are different religions and other belief systems.)
But back again...
Maybe such a "split view" with inside and outside is really just the illusion, and the real thing is just one.
I cannot really reply analytically to the last half of you what you wrote, but definitely also makes sense.
What I can say is that in the transitions of the signs of the zodiac that emerge in my approach,
the first element is always dry/hard/outside while the last element is always wet/soft/inside.
Since the transformations of the signs Aries-Leo-Sagittarius, Taurus-Virgo-Capricorn,
Gemini-Libra-Aquarius and Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces also mirror young-adult-old in many ways,
turning old and things turning to the inside where maybe things are more one
and not so well defined, softer, more mixed up.
That might be an explanation why things the older one gets, get more unified.
At least in terms of air signs, I guess to Gemini the two sides of the coin are not yet one coin,
just like Castor and Pollux had to change places between Hades and Olympos, but never the same.
With Libra the opposites are balanced, and in the end with Aquarius often a lot gets unified.
And maybe generally in life in that way, probably with variations.
The least I can say is that my approach is in my experience often a very good tool to look at things,
often gives interesting insights that seem otherwise not visible or not so easily/clearly...
I really don't know how to "bootstrap" the idea to people who have never heard it.
Seems unavoidable to go in loops and maybe individually depending on how someone views things.
What you wrote with "It sounds theorically. Too abstract for me." is apparently what Liz Greene said
when Alois Treindl shower her a document I had written in 2002 ("Too theoretical".)
where I was just describing the transformation of the signs of the zodiac in terms the four elements,
without anything about the approach with in/out and rest/move, yet.
Maybe I really have no chance to reach anybody in my lifetime and quite possibly this will get lost in time again,
until maybe someone discovers it independently (as far as there is an independently).
But today was at least somewhat more encouraging, maybe not completely hopeless any more, at least in time...
[…]
[…]
[…]
[…]
[…]
xphi... said (Tue 25 Jun 2024 23:37:42 CEST):
Maybe a reboot, and ask step by step...
Would you all agree that to a typical adult who is awake life seems to play sort of on two "movie screens",
one apparently inside and one outside?
annait said (Wed 26 Jun 2024 20:13:44 CEST):
Do you want to clarify something with your question? With discribing something "typical"?
That we all normally live in two films? With two pencils...what to do with them? The ame or another thing?
On one cinema screen we draw or write something on a piece of paper...on the other we gouge out someone's eyes with it...? Typically?
It sounds theorically. Too abstract for me.
After thinking about this a bit longer, I think that the allegory with "two movie screens" is not how it is.
There are not really two "screens".
Outside, yes, you could consider it a "movie screen", but not inside,
and a tree (or whatever) when it is outside is not automatically also mirrored inside.
I noticed that I do not mention that "movie screen" allegory at all on my website,
while I do use that allegory in the book I started to write in 2019 and where I did not get far at all so far...
Seemed a good idea then, but maybe one of the reasons why the book is not evolving...
So let me maybe try by just quoting from my website instead and ask again if that makes sense,
if others would/could agree at least to some important degree, maybe even enough to maybe follow me
when I would carry on a bit further after that...
(The sentences I will quote below in turquoise are almost unchanged since about December 2005,
and I added letters a) to e) for reference in replies, if desired...)
a) Imagine you just now started to look at the world.
This sort of implicitly implies a typical reader, most likely adult,
and at least tentatively somewhat interested into reading what I write, since reading that sentence...
(It does not imply that I would ask you to try to transform back into a newborn baby.)
b) One of the first things you notice is space.
There is you and an outside world you can see, and you can see more than one thing.
What separates you and what you can see, and what separates the different things you see,
is space in its most immediate definition.
This is very close to what Immanuel Kant write in "The Critique of Pure Reason"
("Die Kritik der reinen Vernunft") in a relatively early chapter – if desired, I could get some quotes from that work.
He defines space via different things you see and that you can see something outside yourself, roughly from memory.
c) Then you also quickly notice that some things move and others do not.
This is time, again in its most immediate definition, as motion or being at rest.
This goes similarly back to Kant in the same book in an adjacent chapter or section,
I could also give quotes if desired. As far as remember,
he describes time in immediate perception roughly as when the things change relative to each other,
or something roughly similar.
d) Things can rest or move outside and inside the mind.
Now this is maybe an extra step by me, I am at least at the moment not sure if Kant also was so specific.
Outside it is obvious that things can move.
Inside maybe not always completely clear.
If you imagine something physical, like a pencil or a tree, that can stay put in the mind,
but usually it is not like a pencil or a tree outside that just stays where it is.
This would then also lead to inside "activity"/"energy" being necessary to keep things at rest,
while outside it would be the opposite, "activity"/"energy" would often be necessary to get things moving,
while not always/ universally being like that.
And then this step:
e) Thus there would a priori be 4 different kinds of things:
What moves outside, what rests outside, what moves inside, and what rests inside.
Let me call them elements and give them the following names: emo, ero, emi and eri.
-----------------------
| emo | moves | outside |
| ero | rests | outside |
| emi | moves | inside |
| eri | rests | inside |
-----------------------
In other words just make a very basic categorization
based on the opposites in/out (part of "space") and rest/move ("time").
This is arguably not the only way to look at this, but it is hard to deny
that it is a very basic, simple one, hence at least one of such candidates...
So, once more the question: Does this seem to mirror how life is
to you folks who are reading this in the thousands if not millions?
Actually, ideally I would like to know what seems wrong,
which "letter" above and maybe some info around that...?
[…]
PS: I just noticed that also in the beginning of the book what I write it is different.
I compare the general experience of life with a movie,
with the exception that you are not only an observer but can change some things,
but I do not mention two movie screens...
"a bit like a movie" is also more general, I would say, would not only cover a "typical" awake state of an adult,
but also dreaming, meditating, being drunk, on an LSD trip, going to sleep, waking up, being just born maybe,
having an apparition, witnessing a miracle, just anything in life, I guess...
A dream is maybe more like a movie than many other states, at least it often seems that in dreams things
are just happening and you have no way to influence it. But also that is probably not so absolute.
Physicist (incl. Nobel Prize winner for his work on Quantum Electrodynamics) Richard Feynman
describes how he could influence his dreams at least to some degree
by wishing what to happen in his dreams in the book "Surely, You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!".
Does maybe not really go deep the way I just described it, but maybe by pondering it, could do that...
Astrologically, I think that the movie allegory in my case is related to my upcoming 3 Saturn returns in 2025 and 2026,
with my Saturn in the last degree of Pisces, but Neptune ("movies") in all three in early Aries,
plus, of course, Neptune generally in Aries relatively soon...
In that sense, maybe my website that goes back to 2001 and with precursors back to 1998
when I first started doing astrology, hence just about 3 years after my previous single Saturn,
is more about the previous resp. now ending Saturn cycle, while the book and a "movie allegory of life"
might be more something already for the next cycle...
I guess the very "self-centered" approach is also something generally related to Aries, also with Aries as a newborn,
born with nothing except a body, and immediately complaining if something is not OK (hungry, too cold, etc.).
Greek philosophy is from the Age of Aries, so it is maybe not astonishing
(given also my MC in Aries and my Moon in Aries in 10 conjunct the MC)
that my approaches/research/findings would also lead to concepts from that epoch,
with elements defined in terms of pairs of opposites and so on.
Does the idea of life as sort of a "movie" find some appeal?
As a movie where you can generally influence some things,
while most things are just happening apparently independent of what you desire?
Or is that maybe too empty as a statement, just a word "movie",
just maybe movies/films named after a "general film of life", so naturally similar,
and in a way also another of Poseidon's ("Neptune's") failed attempt to grasp reality
and rather grabbing all of life, including all the imaginary and so on?
Penguin Trauma said (Thu 27 Jun 2024 22:00:04 CEST):
New Agers = a belief in an all seeing, yet unseen power or group of beings,
that has full control over a person's life and outcomes (but in a benevolent and supportive way)
Conspiracy Theorists = a belief in an all seeing, yet unseen power or group of beings,
that has full control over a person's life and outcomes (but in a malevolent and sinister way)
I really like that!
Also in that light QAnon makes a lot of sense, is a combination of both.
A hero from inside that "unseen power or group of beings" that promises to bring sort of a new, better age...
The story around QAnon is quite hilarious, does not seem like it was originally planned
by some "unseen power or group of beings" except the "collective unconscious", but, of course,
once the spin doctors saw it was catching on, they took care to "spread the word" online,
to get more votes...
etherea said (Mon 24 Jun 2024 10:44:29 CEST):
Definitely, the stormy Neptune - who can withstand a tsunami? Nobody dreams whilst that is rushing forth.
But even in the crashing waves there is an un-earthed instability, so this is a constant of a Neptune expression.
We feel disoriented.
I certainly doubt the conjunction - or the later transit through the whole sign - will be a comfortable experience.
Both Saturn and Neptune can denote reduction, but where it gets very interesting
is the crunch between Saturn's constriction and Neptune lack of containment.
It's a version of the conundrum of "unstoppable force meeting with an impenetrable barrier";
Mars energy is likely to provide the eventual resolution, being the third force in the conjunction.
I see that differently, or at least I see a different angle to it.
[Or rather additional angles? In my feeling what etherea wrote contains elements that are quite true,
while I still tend to imagine the conjunction to be "a comfortable experience", at least something very calm at the time,
both just a little bit into Aries, not enough to really take off?]
To me one of the greatest mistakes of modern astrology of the 20th century
has been to identify ruling planets with the signs (and usually also corresponding houses).
Poseidon ("Neptune") does rule the sea in Greek mythology, but he was never happy with the lot he got.
After the revolution lead by his younger brother Zeus ("Jupiter") against Cronos ("Saturn"),
the three brothers Zeus, Hades/Pluto and Poseidon decided by chance who should rule where.
Zeus got the sky, Hades/Pluto got the underworld, Poseidon got the sea.
In Greek mythology the nature Poseidon is described as more archaic, more stubborn, more jealous,
with little comprehension for anything not immediately "touchable", quite unlike his brother Zeus
(who is also traditionally as Jupiter the ruler of Pisces)
(which makes Poseidon made an older god from the Age of Taurus?).
Poseidon often wants to conquer land, like also in one myth around Athens,
but in the end that usually does not work out.
So Neptune would almost constantly be trying to grasp something very concrete,
but always fall for illusions, things would always turn out differently,
which in the end he would really reflect Pisces themes that way.
For example, pushing photography in the 19th century seem to me
to have been an approach to grasp reality with realistic images of reality,
more real than a painting could ever be.
But it all turned out wilder, art escaped to abstract paintings and much more
(although arguably a bit later, with also influence by Pluto, I guess),
photos were manipulated, and so on. And then came movies.
And now maybe "AI" is one of the next illusions, in many respects maybe a bubble that will burst,
and there will be useful things from it, but not quite what Neptune maybe would have expected.
I presume that in itself is also a limited/incomplete description of astrological Neptune,
but I guess is an important element that should usually not be swept under the rug
when considering Neptune in astrology...
I forgot to reference Saturn...
I guess, with Neptune conjunct Saturn, the illusions might be somewhat of a different nature.
Maybe punctually more real and concrete, maybe conversely also in some cases more strictly illusions?
And what would that say about Russia, by the way, while there the originating conjunction was in late Pisces (Kiev Rus).
I guess, with Neptune in Aries there will be quite some things happening in art, not sure in which way(s) exactly,
but maybe in ways that human artists will "outrun" AI-generated art in yet unseen ways?
I really liked the first few years after 2010, there was lots of (to me) very, very cool new stuff happening in art,
often ephemeral, and maybe also similarly with Neptune soon?
[…]
Yesterday I was at the Chinese ink painting course in the early evening.
I liked the model painting, a landscape, also painted, but in a way maybe realistic quite realistically.
But for me a painting would just not emerge that evening, I tried to start several times, was no good.
Then I essentially let it be, but kept looking at the model painting from spot to spot and at it all.
And about two hours after the start of the course, I started again, painted it very quickly in about 10-15 minutes.
Here are the two paintings side-by-side;
in a way one might maybe consider them an outside and an inside "movie screen" (left and right below)...
So was the one inside in a way present all the way, maybe just most of the time not conscious?
Or maybe it was not? Maybe emerging over time? Or always there but took some time to make it into my conscious mind?
Here's the chart for when I began to paint...
Maybe look at the 5th house? Or Jupiter as AC ruler just entering the 5th house as houses rotate in time?
Or just Uranus and esp. Sedna in 5, esp. Sedna, no fingers, just let things grow? Maybe just that...
Neptune will station next Tuesday around noon at 29°56' Pisces, which is very rare, and then go back retrograde for a while.
In the past about 2500 years I could only find one instance that came relatively close, in 1369 at 29°48' Pisces.
(There were / will be some close stations from retrograde to direct 388, 1534, 2189 at 29°43', 29°52', 29°52'.)
A bit less rare was the station of Saturn in 1996 in the last degree of Pisces, something like 3 weeks before my birth,
so maybe just a theme in me, and one where maybe some progress is possible exactly these days...
And something to ponder afterwards, I guess.
Poseidon wanting maybe to get land, go from the sea of Pisces (made mainly of air in my approach)
to the reality of Aries (made mainly of earth in my approach),
or at least coming close to likely the most universal point in the zodiac, where all comes together and then just...
Early in Homer's Odyssey, Zeus predicts that Odysseus would reach island X in Y days
(don't remember the details, even though the would probably be of some importance).
All goes well for Odysseus and after Y-1 days (i.e. one day early) Odysseus is already very close to island X.
Bit then Poseidon returned from Africa, sees Odysseus and sends a storm that destroys the raft
and Odysseus has to swim and reaches the beach after much trouble exactly Y days after he had left.
So Zeus/Jupiter knew...
Do I have to know and understand? Maybe it was also Zeus in the painting? Or maybe not?
Venus at the MC, in 7 in the chart... Beautiful... and the sextiles and trine, almost like a raft in the sea?
Somehow times have become quite flat, many beautiful things have been lost or forgotten,
I wonder what will maybe come up (new or again) with Neptune in the next cycle?
Did I lose focus on the story I started to tell? Like Odysseus his way home? Is that a bad thing?
But still, at least in my estimation my approach to elements is still something
that mirrors a lot of life and the world, maybe has to be adapted, refined, reconsidered, complemented by many other views,
but that it reproduces existing structures that are not normally connected in those ways is certainly fruitful
or only to be able to learn the star signs (signs of the zodiac) much more easily with my approach,
without being limited to simplistic keywords...
etherea said (Fri 28 Jun 2024 10:44:29 CEST):
To me, it's a question of "both/and", rather than "either/or".
Sounds like you are saying that I would have said something different?
etherea said (Fri 28 Jun 2024 10:44:29 CEST):
In a way (and perhaps belonging to a different, more philosophical discussion),
we don't have to stick exactly to the Greek myths
because we have the experience of many working with astrology post-planetary discovery,
to describe their experience.
The planets speak to us by the influences we observe,
rather than someone somewhere telling us what it is.
Myths of the ancient world were not always singular, either.
Different temples taught different versions.
We have only what is written down rather than necessarily what was taught verbally
and from that perspective, our own modern day experience requires incorporation.
We are not captive to historical, singular examples.
In about 2001* at the "Astrology World Congress" in Basel,
in a talk about Neptune Liz Greene said that in her experience she could not find anything
that would relate Neptune to unconscious things,
while in an other talk, I think about the mutual reception of Uranus in Pisces and Neptune in Aquarius at the the time,
one of her "disciples", don't remember which one, quoted someone with
"What people usually forget about the unconscious is that it is unconscious".
Mythology, esp. Greek mythology can mitigate that to some degree,
because lots of experience of life went into them
and also because what the myths evoke does not have to be conscious to astrologers or their clients, etc.
* 2004 at Easter (9 - 12 April)
etherea said (Sat 29 Jun 2024 09:03:52 CEST):
No, just that I would not exclude all possibilities, but retain a more open stance on it.
These planets are still relatively new to us and observation is still relevant.
My point of view is at its core rather different (but also not absolute in the following).
In my view, astrology as practiced today is mainly a collective phenomenon, unconscious to most, but having an effect on all,
it cannot be directly linked to the objects in the sky because the methods are so detached/abstracted from the literal sky.*
In that view, the best astrology is the one that fits life best,
that allows a diverse population with different birth charts best to go through live,
also in competition to other astrologies, systems, variations in astrology, etc.
Is sort of Darwinism of different such collective beliefs, including religions, oracles, magic, and also astrology,
and with astrology with a special role as, for example, the idea of astrological ages also mirrors different religions
(Christian and Muslim religions in the Age of Pisces, Judaism and classical patheon of "Greek" Gods the Age of Aries,
with some older roots, etc.).
So, however you attribute things to Neptune and other objects and star signs and houses and so on,
the aim is to find sort of the best fit, or at least for a certain time frame,
a mix of "real evolution to something better" and changing moods and waves...
But quite arguably there seem also to be correlations that seem maybe rather not to fit that picture,
even though these aside, that image seems to be largely correct.
In that sense maybe more a practical truth than an "ultimate truth"...
* Actually, I remember you did agree to this somewhat differently formulated by me some weeks back,
but maybe that was just a misunderstanding.
[This is what I had mentioned earlier, the illusion in my post around Sedna's entry into Gemini
that she would have agreed with my general take on astrology, which she apparently did not, but read on…]
xphi... said (Wed 19 Jun 2024 06:08:28 CEST):
Let me define the elements in my view:
emo := what moves outside (~"fire")
ero := what rests outside (~"earth")
emi := what moves inside (~"water")
eri := what rests inside (~"air")
So emo is the element that moves outside,
just the first letters of element/moves/outside,
and similarly for the other three.
[...]
And I define a fifth element simply as:
e5 := what transforms the above four elements into each other (~"aether"/"ether")
Maybe I can expand a bit on that, after having already informally derived
that emo and ero would be "hard"/"brittle"/("dry"), emi and eri would be "soft"/"malleable"/("wet"),
and that ero and emi would be "passive", emo and eri would be "active".
Outside when things move, they most often do in various directions, and I guess similarly inside.
Hence what rests would seem to bind things together, while moving things would be less bound,
would release bounds, so emo and emo would release, ero and eri would bind.
And one more, quoting from my website:
Passive is inertial in a sense:
Outside ero resists more to get into motion than emo resists to get to rest;
inside emi resists more to get to rest than eri resists to get into motion.
In rough equivalence to inertial and gravitational mass in physics,
inert (passive) would be heavy and dense, swift (active) would be light and thin.
So, emo ("fire") and eri ("air") would be light, while ero ("earth") and emo ("water") would be heavy,
which does correspond to the general view in antiquity, also Aristotle does at least once list them in such a way,
and in terms of the literal elements, this makes, of course, sense, too.
Here's a list by pairs of opposites:
And here as a table by elements with sort of the most important pairs of opposites:
| ero | rest/bind | out/dry/hard/brittle/isolated |
passive/cold/heay/inert/dense/female | "earth"" |
| emo | move/release | out/dry/hard/brittle/isolated |
active/hot/light/swift/thin/male | "fire"" |
| eri | rest/bind | in/wet/soft/malleable/mixed |
active/hot/light/swift/thin/male | "air"" |
| emi | move/release | in/wet/soft/malleable/mixed |
passive/cold/heay/inert/dense/female | "water"" |
The approach I presented may not he perfect,
but it does really reproduce the structure of what people in antiquity associated with the elements...
That alone, as some sort of rather "mathematical" piece of quasi-logic is interesting, in my view...
Next something from China, around the I Ching...
Here's what Richard Wilhelm writes about the 8 trigrams of the I Ching in his book about it (transl. by Cary F. Baynes):
☰ heaven, strong, creative, father
☷ earth, devoted/yielding, receptive, mother
☳ thunder, inciting movement, arousing, 1st son
☵ water, dangerous, abysmal, 2nd son
☶ mountain, resting, keeping still, 3rd son
☴ wind/wood, penetrating, gentle, 1st daughter
☲ fire, light-giving, clinging, 2nd daughter
☱ lake, joyful, joyous, 3rd daughter
They seem to resemble Greek elements in pairs, as follows:
| ☰ heaven | air | rests | male (father) |
| ☴ wind/wood | air | moves | female (1st daughter) |
| ☶ mountain | earth | rests | male (3rd son) |
| ☷ earth | earth | moves | female (mother) |
| ☲ fire | fire | rests | female (2nd daughter) |
| ☳ thunder | fire | moves | male (1st son) |
| ☱ lake | water | rests | female (3rd daughter) |
| ☵ water | water | moves | male (2nd son) |
There is one very important thing to notice here, at least from my perspective:
The Greek elements (resting air, resting earth, moving fire, moving water)
above are exactly the male elements in the "West"...
This very likely reveals some bias...
The female resting fire as a flame could maybe be an inner fire, a maybe especially female ability to hang on to a dream,
to something she wants to make real or just hold on to, despite any motion around her, including inside her?
The female moving earth as the ability to give in inside to the real circumstances around her and logic inside?
The female resting water as a lake as a way to remain calm sort of passively, also or mainly outside despite what may be happening?
The female moving air as wind, talking just fluently like a "river", not bound so much by complex logical restrictions?
Certainly not perfect how I formulated it above, but I hope you get some of the the gist of it...
Another important point regarding the trigrams is this from Richard Wilhelm:
The eight trigrams are symbols standing for changing transitional states;
they are images that are constantly undergoing change.
Attention centers not on things in their state of being—as is chiefly the case in the Occident—but
upon their movements in change.
The eight trigrams therefore are not representations of things as such but of their tendencies in movement.
I managed to find a quite natural way how to arrange the 8 trigrams and the 4 Western elements in a circle
such that the 8 trigrams would be transformations between the 4 "Greek" elements, like this:
That allows to further distinguish between the two trigrams for the same element, quoting from my website:
The trigrams seem to fit closely:
Thunder as fire that has suddenly come down as lightning from the sky (air),
in contrast to fire steadily clinging to the matter (earth) it burns;
wind as air that gently evaporated from water,
in contrast to gases from a fire risen to heaven;
a lake as water sprung from sources (earth),
in contrast to water fallen down as rain from the sky (air);
a mountain as earth solidified from lava (fire),
in contrast to softly yielding earth from sediments deposited by water.
There's actually an additional trick to visualize this circle, but using a Moebius strip instead of a circle,
such that the inner elements air and water are "inside2 of the Moebius strip and earth and fire are outside...
I guess astrologers would have noticed that the circle a bit further above is a circle of 12 things,
just like a zodiac, and I think it might also resemble one, if so then more likely the Chinese zodiac,
in which at least in one version there is earth 4 times at angles, and in between each tine two Wu Xing of one kind...
Anyways, overall very interesting that my approach also allowed to gain new perspectives on ancient Chinese "elements"
including how they relate to the "West", and thus also which views might be biased in one way.
So, the approach has proven to be useful, at least in my view...
Next a short report of an attempt to go back to prehistoric times with maybe first only "3 elements" white/red/black...
which also reveals some interesting things about the human psyche, in my view...
xphi... said (Tue 25 Jun 2024 23:37:42 CEST):
Would you all agree that to a typical adult who is awake life seems to play sort of on two "movie screens",
one apparently inside and one outside?
(Literal object like a pencil or a shoe can appear outside or inside and usually you could tell the difference, right?
I mean the difference between a pencil you see or use outside and one that you imagine inside, right?
And similarly, for example, with a song, you could usually tell whether it is playing outside
and you are hearing it or whether it is just in your head, right?)
annait said (Wed 26 Jun 2024 20:13:44 CEST):
Do you want to clarify something with your question? With discribing something "typical"?
That we all normally live in two films? With two pencils...what to do with them? The ame or another thing?
On one cinema screen we draw or write something on a piece of paper...on the other we gouge out someone's eyes with it...? Typically?
It sounds theorically. Too abstract for me.
Okay, well, I can also imagine drawing something with an imaginary pencil.
Possibly a thousand times better than I could do with the other one.
A sort of dreamworld..
Of course it works.
But I believe that this is not intresting eccept that to see how near or far away your life is to your dreamlife.
For me this question has also another answer.
It alludes to what happens between day and night, between being awake, daydreaming and nightdreaming.
May be you mean this which is not or less under controll.
But there can happen and it happened to me that this day-night-awake-sleeping- films etc..cannot be distinguished anymore,
and ends somewhere in the middle in a so-called (darn nominalistic urge) psychotic crisis...or condition...which one can
then learn to live with. Not resplit it again in fantasy and real life and other splits which are there too.
But for that you need some help. I found support. Than it becomes a necessary part of a changing phase or turnaround of life.
You have to lose your fear of it, need to wait and faith in it for seeing where all this leads to.
I now believe that everything that can seem overwhelming varies from person to person - even if it is something universal -
and it is readable in one's personal life.
In my case there are no longer two cinema screens, but one very large one in which everything finds a place in relation
to everything else little by little. Like in one of the older paintings here in our world, but not in all cultures.
May be someone paints still in this way.
Like everything takes its place exactly where it has to be in exactly this form of life in relation to its own design
that has already been drawn out on the canvas.
I assume this doesn't become a dream life at the end. But perhaps a fulfilled one.
xphi... said (Thu 27 Jun 2024 21:49:22 CEST):
After thinking about this a bit longer, I think that the allegory with "two movie screens" is not how it is.
There are not really two "screens". Outside, yes, you could consider it a "movie screen", but not inside,
and a tree (or whatever) when it is outside is not automatically also mirrored inside.
Sometime this night, I guess at least half-asleep, I got what seems to me to be a clearer picture:
"Outside" being perceived as similar to a "movie screen" would make sense
because in my approach it would be made of ero+emo ("earth+fire"),
namely "reality" ("earth") illuminated by light ("fire"),
so that you can see a whole scene in full technicolor at daytime at every moment with open eyes
(gray with low light, not much if totally dark, then "only" the other senses).
"Inside" would be eri+emi ("air+water"), namely feelings ("water") and thoughts ("air"),
but not generally as a visual image, even though that can be imagined or also just appear in the mind at times.
So, the attributions fire-emo and earth-ero plus water-emi and air-eri would also make sense in the general impression of life
compared to general attributions of the classical elements (e.g. water-feelings).
Not sure if the "rest/move" part of my approach can also be sort of naturally derived from that,
maybe hopefully even another idea there until Neptune stations next Tuesday around noon?
But overall already an interesting advance to me, which I think shows also how important feedback can be...
xphi... said (Sat 29 Jun 2024 10:56:36 CEST):
* Actually, I remember you did agree to this somewhat differently formulated by me some weeks back,
but maybe that was just a misunderstanding.
etherea said (Sun 30 Jun 2024 08:19:48 CEST):
If you provide the quote, then we can discuss and, if necessary, I can clarify.
Post #33 in the "Sedna" thread, the one by me about the Sedna ingress into Gemini posted one day later (Apr 28, 2024),
the last part of that very long post (emphasis around specifically astrology in bold by me for this quote):
There would be so much more, but maybe something also quite clear to me but to nobody else,
regarding that quote by Jung that etherea mentioned:
"freedom of will is the ability to do gladly that which I must do...... I lived into the depths, and the depths began to speak"
How this literally most likely works is as follows:
Just like individual cells in a human (or animal or plant) body form a larger being,
and are not aware of much of the complex things that go on in that compound,
also individual humans (and animals and plants) are part of larger organisms with less immediately visible ties,
which are mostly unconscious to people, mostly manifest in feelings, in drives what to do,
in order to fulfill collective dreams, plans, moods, etc.
Such beings composed of groups of people used to be called "Gods" or "Goddesses" or more philosophically the "World Soul" ("anima mundi"),
and other names, and Jung more precisely named them the "collective unconscious".
This is - for all that it appears to me as a physicist - simply how it is, and it is also how astrology works at its core:
It would not be the "stars" (actual objects in the sky) that influence our lives, it would (at least to first order)
be our common and mostly unconscious beliefs about them plus what is favorable in a darwinistic sense,
(e.g. to sort things in late summer when the harvest comes in,
even though siderally the sun is then no longer in Virgo due to precession).
Anybody has been reading until here? I am sort of the "box office poison" of promoting anything new.....
-- https://www.astrologyinternational....mini-mid-june-23-–-world-split.116/post-16092
And your brief reply in post #34, quoting just my last sentence:
yes, and following your train of thought
-- https://www.astrologyinternational....mini-mid-june-23-–-world-split.116/post-16095
I guess it was exaggerated by me to interpret that reply as also agreeing with what I wrote in the paragraph
just before the one quoted in the reply...
Maybe a Neptune theme, in German the word for disappointment is "Enttäuschung", literally, un-deception,
i.e. that one realizes one had imagined something that was (at least on a conscious level) never there...
Penguin Trauma said (Sat 22 Jun 2024 10:01:10 CEST):
Now Neptune has reached the tip of the 29° Pisces, I'm now reaching a point where I literally don't even know!
With Neptune slower and slower almost at the spring point, it gets harder to formulate anything, so maybe less structured better...
By the way, Biden is supposed to meet with family at Camp David today, apparently also to discuss if/how to continue –
did you know that Camp David was formerly called Shangri-La, the fictive place in Tibet from the novel "Lost Horizon" by James Hilton,
which was apparently the first mass market paperback, back in 1939?
I read it last year, definitely worth it...
On my website this quote of a comment to something from the bible, also very strange because I never read that book
nor otherwise know particularly much about it and the quote maybe me "original work" with no history,
but seemed interesting, as it also speaks of "spirit":
New Testament Recovery Version, 1 Th 5:23, footnote 5c:
“The spirit as our inmost part is the inner organ, possessing God-consciousness, that we may contact God (John 4:24; Rom. 1:9).
The soul is our very self (cf. Matt. 16:26; Luke 9:25), a medium between our spirit and our body,
possessing self-consciousness, that we may have our personality.
The body as our external part is the outer organ, possessing world-consciousness, that we may contact the material world.”
[...]
Note, however, that the footnote might be more of a modern interpretation/insight than explicit or implicit ancient views;
spirit-soul-body were pneuma-psyche-soma in Greek.
Psyche is literally a butterfly, I guess the conscious mind that flies from flower to flower,
sometimes stays a little longer, sometimes just very briefly,
sort of apparently randomly flying of again to the next flower (thought)...
Pneuma was the breath, as far as I know, humid warm air... Om om om......
In a way I guess life itself – if it breathes, it is alive...
Exhale your last breath as expression for dying...
Another quote:
Mother Mary could be seen as water, plus a male trinity of air (father-fire, son-earth, spirit-air ?).
And any cultural creation thus maybe as trifold air inspired by a water muse, like in the Odyssey,
in essence the (male) “human condition” ?
Note that there is again "sprit" in the that quote, the holy spirit of Christianity, of its male trinity father-son-holy spirit.
Don't expect anything more coherent by me similar to Biden about health care and Covid...
Oh, did the hopes that since Snowden it was clear that a "conspiracy theory" is just a valid hypothesis to check already evaporate again?
And whistleblowing is also certain death in the "West" now after what happened at Boeing?
Oh, when Uranus went into Aries in 2010, I was reading Karel Capek's novel about the absolutum factory,
where atoms that were bound together could be released and that way part of "God" was set free,
which lead to people getting very religious, and then also to global wars, definitely worth to read,
in German titled "Das Absolutum", not sure if ever translated to English, and after 2010
there was lots of free absolutum, set free aparently with Uranus into Aries,
so I wonder what Neptune will do in that respect, as already said, take a look at art then, I guess...
I really loved 2010...2012 and partially a bit later, reminded my also a bit of 1966 when I was born...
etherea said (Sun 30 Jun 2024 12:26:17 CEST):
Indeed - you asked if anybody was following, and I said 'yes'.
"Following your train of thought" does not mean "and I agree with everything you said" -
it just means that I am reading the posts where you set out how you are thinking and putting it together.
Not necessarily thinking the same or "following" as in "followers".
In a way, it was an "Is anybody out there, noticing what I am writing?"
question, and my "yes" answer was that someone indeed was.
I hope that clarifies.
Well, yes... Yes, it clarifies. Disillusions...
[Would have been different if she had been a bit nicer, more "verständnisvoll".
Should also be noted that she had put a smiley with heart eyes on my post about the Sedna ingress at the time.
To me extremely sad that she completely refused to have been part in the misunderstanding at all.]
But maybe also in essence just an illusion my idea of elements in terms of in/out, rest/move and their transformations (e5) –
mirroring some things, leading to new interesting connections, but maybe all in all in itself not all that fundamental, just another facade?
Plan B maybe a textbook about the zodiac signs described as transformations between the elements (with examples and exercises)? Maybe...?
Could explain why my book projects around the ideas presented here did not really take off so far,
maybe I unconsciously knew that they were not good enough, or maybe just not yet, give things more time and see then...
In the end all is an illusion, of course, just not identified as such in lifetime... maybe...
wei chi... just wait... sleeping beauty dreaming...
In the end, I have added two leads on my site, at different places, based on discussions here:
Is there already in/out for a newborn? I have a memory from the age of 3 to 4 when I started to have a consciousness
with then a memory from birth (a memory of a memory), which was apparently the white ceiling with lights on it.
That would suggest in/out right from birth on.
and
The perception of outside resembles what a camera would record,
is like a movie screen with image, sound, and even smell, taste and touch.
The perception of inside is different, not so easy to describe.
Everything from outside can be imagined inside, but also other things are possible.
The second lead primarily addresses something I guess I implicitly had imagined the wrong way for many years,
but it also did not make it directly to my site in that form, nor into any published book.
It is in the end also not up to me to judge my approach in its entirety,
especially at my age it is maybe good enough to preserve it and keep it accessible,
for the next Percival or something...
But if maybe less fundamental that imagined, also removes some pressure
I felt like having to promote it, make it known...
I have extended the second lead as follows:
The perception of outside resembles what a camera would record, is like a ‘movie screen’
with image, sound, and even smell, taste and touch.
The perception of inside is different, not so easy to describe.
Everything from outside can be imagined inside, but also other things are possible.
Has the previous informal reasoning about emi and eri inside thus maybe been flawed, maybe significantly?
Also, inside thoughts seem to flow more quickly than feelings change,
hence the identification air-eri and water-emi seems to be rather the wrong way round,
probably also destroying the previous derivation of Aristotle’s cycle of elements.
Added this to the welcome page:
Looks like some considerations around ‘inside’ are flawed,
see the last lead under ‘measurement’ (2 July 2024).
As some of you might know, I am a physicist and as also the first half of the name of my website suggests,
when something is not realistic or logically clearly flawed, it becomes no longer tenable.
This means at least at this moment that I most likely did not make any discovery
that would be really of fundamental nature in the sense of "physics".
So, no direct pressure to promote anything further, except maybe just for fun.
(Obviously, I will think on about these things, and maybe even (re-)discover something else that might be fundamental,
but for now let Neptune station at restaurant at the end of the universe, I guess...)
Thanks for the feedback!
[That had been the last post before the Neptune station, which was about 2.5 hours later.
It should be noted that the very many posts by me around that time had Neptune in transit ahead of my natal Saturn
(ca. 6 May - 30 Aug 2024), which explains maybe the number of illusions and/or "illusions"
and/or disillusions and/or "disillusions" at the time…
And the core issue, whether activity inside is passive (as assumed since 2004) or active,
first emerged in the post below in still somewhat veiled form
related to emi-water-feelings and eri-air-thoughts.
Below the chart for the Neptune station for my home town Adliswil,
and you can find more ruminations in my article "Mysteries of life".]
With Neptune now retrograde... Maybe was just a bad dream...
Inside more moves than rests on average, so the basic derivation of equivalence
with Aristotle's definition and circle of elements still makes sense.
What does not fit apparently is that what moves inside would be feelings and what rests inside would be thoughts,
since thoughts appear to be moving more than feelings usually.
Not sure what to do with that, was in the immediate sense before that more beautiful to me.
Will see what the summer brings, hopefully ample time ponder such things.
I first wrote this:
Inside thoughts seem to flow more quickly than feelings are changing,
hence with astrology’s usual association of thinking with air and feeling with water
that would be the reverse of what one would immediately expect.
But then noticed something and added this:
But I also automatically used the word ‘flow’, which suggests water,
hence maybe a river of thoughts inside ?
Anyways, no reason to keep posting for every step in my mind (else ask for it!),
will see what I get to this summer and then maybe get back here... Ever tried...
BTW: Not sure if in English "river of thoughts" is a common expression, it is in German, "Gedankenfluss".
A thread for everybody who wants to briefly hint at some "mundane constellation"
that was not mentioned in current mundane threads in the forum,
but which taking into account would presumably often make sense
(or at least would likely be worth to consider)...
Let me just start with one here:
Since 26 June, Uranus is within 1° of Algol
(Algol is currently at 26°30' Taurus, moves about 1' ahead every year).
Uranus will be conjunct Algol around:
- 20 July 2024
- 15 October 2024 (rx)
- 4 May 2025
(Could, for example, be mentioned around DJT and SCOTUS, etc.)
People in Switzerland are usually aware that it is a small country, so when you are part of the "government" by voting,
you have to estimate what the outcome would be, which limits some things.
If the whole world was federalistic with direct democracy, you could vote differently.
The chance of "rigged" votes is very small in Switzerland, the people who count are normal people,
never "hit" me, but my father did have to go to count votes on Sunday for some years.
But yes, the effect now is that Switzerland is creating structures
that help to exploit many parts of the rest of the world.
I can only recommend other countries to establish direct democracy, that would level the field.
PS: And then many global problems could finally be addressed and solved.
I have been pondering things some more.
The perception of outside reminds of a movie screen, a big image with sound.
Other than in a typical movie, there is also smell, taste and touch.
Also different from most movies, there is usually not all that much action,
most parts of the screen are usually static like a photo or billboard.
Exceptions where "everything" moves are rather catastrophic events like landslides,
tsunamis or hurricanes, or also really heavy stroms at sea,
like 12 in the Beaufort Scale, "The air is filled with foam and spray.
Sea completely white with driving spray; visibility very seriously affected.".
Generally, activity/energy is required to get things moving.
The perception of inside is that if you just relax, things are just flowing,
that passivity is movement, and that when things flow that is also often associated
with a feeling or with feelings, while when you actively try to focus on things,
connect things, that then you at least for some moments stabilize some things inside
and then there is usually less feeling associated with that.
I am not saying that the above is perfect, especially not for inside,
where the above sentences are also quite new to me,
but it feels like at least approaching the right themes.
The classical elements with also their ancient humors and some common modern psychological associations:
| fire (hot+dry) | choleric (yellow bile) | imagination, sparks of ideas, .... |
| earth (dry+cold) | melancholic (black bile) | realism, pragmatism, memory, ... |
| water (cold+wet | phlegmatic (phlegm) | feelings, faith, ... |
| air (wet+hot) | sanguine (red blood) | thinking, logic, language, ... |
The psychological associations are all inside, so a 100% perfect match
with my approach in terms of in/out and rest/move is not expected,
but feelings-water-emi still seems to be from the above considerations not such a bad match,
plus it leads to so many things that fit, including with the Chinese I Ching (Yijing)
that I feel it is worth hanging on to it.
It would be quite improbable that such long-living systems like astrology in the I Ching,
plus also all the surviving myths that also express transformations between elements
if you read them with the above keywords, would be so far from how nature and life are.
To me also a good argument why emi would be water/feelings is that inside things might be mixing
because they flow, that this would be a manifestation that maybe things would even be connected
between individual beings, perceived as feelings, like a "gut feeling" what to do influenced
by a community and generally faith into anything something carried (largely unconsciously)
by others, humans and possibly also other living beings, and see what I wrote around
that already in post #14...
All I can do is invite people to give this a chance, not to be all to pedantic with every detail,
as the ideas are quite new...
And, yes, if it is really Avantgarde, nobody expects quick/broad adoption, more likely not even in a lifetime...
In extreme cases like Leonardo da Vinci (e.g. helicopters) or Aristarchos of Samos (heliocentric solar system)
it can take hundreds or thousands of years.
(Does not mean that everybody who comes with something new is up to something really big,
but there are some indicators that help...)
Feedback still welcome, but note that I feel ("water") enough incentive to hold on to this,
there is just too much in cultures world-wide that emphasizes that my approach is a valuable contribution,
maybe not the single best one, there I might be a bit biased as its mother,
but definitely better than a whole lot of what gets attention for example in contemporary astrology...
I guess practically nobody here was aware that the main reason overall that I posted during all the years
was that I had the impression of having found out something fundamental
and thus thought it would be important to make it known, so that humanity would not lose that opportunity.
(And it would also have helped to give astrology some "justification"/basis that would be more amenable to people.)
But as of now, it seems very much like that may all not be the case, just some interesting details around various topics.
Last chance is maybe that this is strongly tied to the Neptune cycle,
that around when Neptune would return to the same point and move into Aries in about a year,
that then I might have discovered a point of view from which all would make sense again,
but currently I have little hopes for that.
So let me just thank you and all the ones in previous forums
(Usenet and ADF, plus punctually some other places) for the conversations...
On my site on the welcome page:
As of early July 2024, looks like the core idea here may have been not as fundamental
or far-reaching as believed, which leaves maybe just a bunch of interesting details.
In the "timeline" document where I list what came up when over the years:
Looks very much like the core idea on this website was not as fundamental as it seemed during the past 20 years.
See last lead under ‘measurement’; not sure if I will update the rest or otherwise continue in any significant ways.
Towards 2 July in the morning (shortly before ♆ stationed very late in ♓︎, even beyond my ♄ and xphi’s ☉;
maybe there might be some kind of ‘recovery’ towards 2026 with ♆ moving on and my ♄ returns conjunct ♆ in ♈︎,
or maybe not).
There is still what is already here, which is at least beautiful
and hopefully also contains some inspiring details around the respective themes…
And in the mentioned lead in the section "measurement":
As of early July 2024, it turned out that some basic perceptions around the core idea
here might have been flawed. Not sure at the moment how far reaching,
but most likely reduces it all to just some interesting details around the respective themes
but is not a fundamentally new approach to life and the world.
Accordingly, unless I could magically recover the previous magic,
I will probably not adapt the rest of this site except in this lead here,
and mostly let things be.
The problem is the perception of inside.
While the perception of outside resembles a movie screen, inside things are different,
even though you can imagine things from outside and definitely inside more flows than outside on average,
which means also that the equivalence of elements defined in terms of in/out and rest/move
goes quite far in mirroring Aristotle’s views, it does not go beyond,
simply because inside thoughts seems to move more quickly than feelings,
and with feelings associated with water and thinking with air,
it apparently all falls apart, emi and eri switched,
and hence apparently no relation to the zodiac or what is described under ‘mixed feelings’,
instead just different fragmentary ideas, which are interesting at times,
but apparently not beyond that.
Maybe I should dance Sirtaki on the beach now…
I guess it should be obvious to all that this is an immensely sad moment in my life,
even though at least consciously I can also see some positive sides to it,
but maybe later it would also feel like it.
I hope it is ok if I add also a German translation here,
don't want to open a separate thread just for that (nor even reproduce this thread in German)...
Ich vermute, dass praktisch niemandem hier bewusst war, dass der Hauptgrund, warum ich in all den Jahren gepostet habe,
der war, dass ich den Eindruck hatte, etwas Grundlegendes herausgefunden zu haben,
und daher dachte, es wäre wichtig, es bekannt zu machen, damit die Menschheit diese Gelegenheit nicht verliert.
(Und es hätte auch geholfen, der Astrologie eine "Rechtfertigung"/Basis zu geben, die für mehr Menschen zugänglicher wäre).
Aber im Moment sieht es sehr danach aus, dass das alles nicht der Fall ist,
sondern nur einige interessante Details zu verschiedenen Themen.
Die letzte Chance wäre vielleicht, dass dies stark mit dem Neptun-Zyklus zusammenhängen würde,
dass, wenn Neptun in etwa einem Jahr an denselben Punkt zurückkehren und in den Widder ziehen würde,
dass ich dann vielleicht eine Sichtweise entdeckt hätte, in der alles wieder Sinn machen würde,
aber im Moment habe ich wenig Hoffnung darauf.
Ich möchte mich bei euch und allen anderen in früheren Foren
(Usenet und ADF, sowie punktuell an anderen Orten) für die Gespräche bedanken...
Auf der Willkommensseite meiner Website:
Stand Anfang Juli 2024, sieht es so aus, als wäre die Kernidee hier vielleicht nicht so grundlegend
und weitreichend wie angenommen, was vielleicht nur einen Haufen interessanter Details übrig liesse.
Im "timeline" Dokument, wo ich aufliste, was wann über die Jahre aufkam:
Es sieht sehr stark danach aus, dass der Kerngedanke dieser Website nicht so grundlegend war,
wie es in den letzten 20 Jahren schien. Siehe den letzten Hinweis unter "messung"; ich bin mir nicht sicher,
ob ich den Rest aktualisieren oder sonst in nennenswerter Weise fortführen werde.
Gegen den 2. Juli morgens (kurz bevor ♆ sehr spät in ♓︎ stand, sogar jenseits meines ♄ und xphi's ☉;
vielleicht gäbe es eine Art 'Erholung' gegen 2026, wenn ♆ weiterzieht und wenn meine ♄-Rückkehren
konjunkt mit ♆ in ♈︎ sind, oder vielleicht auch nicht).
Es gibt noch das, was schon da ist, was zumindest schön ist und hoffentlich
auch einige inspirierende Details zu den jeweiligen Themen enthält...
Und im erwähnten Hinweis in der Sektion "messung":
Anfang Juli 2024 stellte sich heraus, dass einige grundlegende Wahrnehmungen
rund um die Kernidee hier fehlerhaft sein könnten.
Ich bin mir im Moment nicht sicher, wie weitreichend das ist,
aber höchstwahrscheinlich reduziert es alles hier auf nur ein paar interessante Details
rund um die jeweiligen Themen, wäre aber kein grundlegend neuer Zugang zum Leben und der Welt.
Dementsprechend werde ich, sofern ich die frühere Magie nicht auf magische Weise wiederherstellen könnte,
den Rest dieser Website wahrscheinlich nicht mehr anpassen, ausser dem hier, und es grösstenteils sein lassen.
Das Problem ist die Wahrnehmung des Innen.
Während die Wahrnehmung des Aussen einer Kinoleinwand gleicht, ist das Innere anders,
selbst wenn man sich die Dinge von aussen vorstellen kann und definitiv innen im Durchschnitt mehr fliesst als aussen,
was auch bedeutet, dass die Äquivalenz der Elemente definiert mittels innen/aussen und ruhen/bewegen
zwar die Sicht von Aristoteles recht weit spiegelt, aber nicht darüber hinausgeht, einfach deshalb,
weil sich Gedanken im Innern schneller zu bewegen scheinen als Gefühle,
und da Gefühle mit Wasser und Denken mit Luft assoziiert werden, fällt anscheinend alles in sich zusammen,
emi und eri vertauscht, und daher offenbar kein Bezug zum Tierkreis oder zu dem, was unter ‘gemischte gefühle’ beschrieben ist,
sondern nur verschiedene fragmentarische Ideen, die manchmal interessant sind, aber offenbar nicht darüber hinaus gehen.
Vielleicht sollte ich jetzt Sirtaki am Strand tanzen…
Ich nehme an, es wäre allen klar, dass dies ein ungemein trauriger Moment in meinem Leben ist,
auch wenn ich zumindest bewusst auch einige positive Seiten daran sehen kann,
aber vielleicht würde es sich später ja auch so anfühlen.
Alain
[There was no feedback at all at the time, and despite continuing to post for a while
(with my stellium in Cancer I hang on to things) that it would end was sort of certain, at least seen from now.
Quite a few people have stopped to post by now and have not visited the site when logged in the past few months.]
Donald Trump Shooting Predicted
Donald Trump was shot in the right ear during an assassination attempt on July 13, 2024.
I predicted this would happen in 2015 when I wrote about the Donald Trump horoscope:
> Donald Trump is at risk of being assassinated by a shot to the head or neck.
The reason I said this is because Trump has Midheaven conjunct fixed star Algol,
which can indicate murder, sudden death and beheading.
In medical astrology, Algol rules one-quarter inch up the base of the neck.
Bold emphasis mine...
And I guess since nominally a bit outside the usual 1° orb for stars, the shooter missed...
Timeline with seconds according to CNN:
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/14/politics/timeline-trump-rally-shooting-dg/index.html
6:11:33 p.m.
Trump pauses mid-sentence as shots ring out.
6:11:34 p.m.
Trump touches the right side of his face.
6:11:35 p.m.
Trump takes cover as US Secret Service agents rush to the podium to surround him. “Get down, get down, get down,” one says.
Here's a chart for the first shots, with the Sibly chart outside.
One thing I noticed besides other things already mentioned 'round here is objects in early Air signs:
- Event: Pluto 1°05' Aquarius
- Event: Lilith (mean) 1°37' Libra
- Event: Sedna 0°58' Gemini
- Sibly: MC 1°03' Libra (hence at a close trine to Pluto+Sedna of the event and conjunct Lilith at the event)
And, of course, AC+MC of the event similar to Sibly.
"Bad things happen in Philadelphia", like a Declaration of Independence, a revolution...
Medusa and Mars: Perseus used the shield he got from Athene and the sword he got from Hephaestos to behead Medusa,
looking at her only as a reflection in the shield. Shield and Sword are the glyph of Mars E
and also somewhat of the variant of the glyph for Uranus
that is more commonly used in Germany (rather sun with arrow): ⛢
Penguin Trauma said (Mon 15 Jul 2024 15:26:57 CEST):
I still don't think it was staged. I'm no arms expert, but I would imagine aiming for the head -
a moving target, surrounded closely by large crowds of people, from a rooftop around 400ft away,
within a very small time range of under a minute, and trying to "stage" that so it would "conveniently"
slice the top of his ear, would be pretty difficult.
The part with the ear would be the easiest to stage, a mini bomb at the ear of the presumed republican presidential candidate,
triggered remotely when he looks away from the main camera.
The rest is much harder, seem impossible without a conspiracy that would have included at least some the secret service personnel.
So, overall not very likely to me, even though not absolutely impossible.
But the motive for a conspiracy also seems not so clear, things were going rather well for republicans,
and not clear if last weekend made a big difference - but I am not in the US,
always difficult to judge things happening there without talking to actual Americans,
at least in my experience.
Cannot see much of an astrological connection, but Alec Baldwin who had impersonated Trump on SNL for quite some time
got the trial against him dismissed for good (or "good") just a day earlier, 12 July 2024...
Judge dismisses Alec Baldwin involuntary manslaughter case for ‘Rust’ shooting
Judge dismisses Alec Baldwin involuntary manslaughter case for 'Rust' shooting
Really weird, esp. given that it at least seems technically it seems unlikely
that Baldwin would not have (maybe unintentionally) pulled the trigger on the set.
Maybe things will take more turns?
Somehow just a "normal" presidential race Trump against Biden seems unlikely?
But I am very bad at predicting such things...
Maybe around this, or maybe not?
Not looked at other planets, actually I guess generally most astrologers do not look very far into the future,
often just draw charts after events materialized...
xphi... said (Fri 5 Jul 2024 21:00:05 CEST):
Uranus will be conjunct Algol around:
- 20 July 2024
- 15 October 2024 (rx)
- 4 May 2025
Ein paar Tage vor dem Attentat hatte Biden "put Trump in the bulls-eye" gesagt
in einem privaten "call" an Spender und sich jetzt dafür entschuldigt.
"Bulls-eye" ist das Zentrum einer Zielscheibe auf English (auch z.B. das rote Zentrum bei Darts),
und unmittelbar übersetzt "Stierauge", also Bezug zu Uranus/Mars im Stier und auch Algol via Augen der Medusa.
(In der griechischen Mythologie wird Hera oft als "kuhäugig" bezeichnet.)
Algol ändert seine Helligkeit recht auffällig mit einer Periode von 2.86 Tagen,
wenn der weniger helle Stern des Doppelsternsystems vor dem helleren vorbeizieht.
Ich weiss nicht wie sich das traditionell auf die Interpretation ausgewirkt hätte,
ich habe aber mal online berechnet wann die letzten Minima waren:
07/11/2024 @ 10:15 UT => 11.07.2024 06:15 in Butler PA (UTC+4)
07/14/2024 @ 07:03 UT => 14.07.2024 03:03 in Butler PA (UTC+4) (Schüsse etwa 9 Stunden zuvor, bzw. etwa 0.4 Tage)
Also mind. deutlich näher bei einem Minimum wie bei einem Maximum. Ev. ja für Zielen mit weniger Licht weniger geeignet?
Vielleicht würden die US-Amerikaner es nun eine Weile weniger krass treiben mit Polarisieren (Mars+Uranus in den Zwillingen),
wenn sie doch im Kern verletzliche Krebslein-Sonnen wären, nur der Aussenpanzer hart?
z.B.: Wenn die Annahme ist, dass eine Wahl von Trump, wie oft von vielen gesagt, das Ende der Demokratie wäre -
was wäre denn anderes angebracht als den Kandidaten "aus dem Weg zu schaffen",
wäre das nicht eine Notwendigkeit um die Demokratie zu erhalten?
Ich hatte bei ein paar der Rallies von Trump dieses Jahr mal reingehört gehabt,
und ein bisschen was von faschistischen Tendenzen hatte es da leider schon.
Wenn ich in den USA leben würde und wählen gehen könnte, würde ich aus Sicherheit nicht Trump wählen,
auch wegen Project 2025, der neuen Immunität des Präsidenten, und was alles passierte,
als er noch Präsident war, inkl. 6. Januar 2020. Aber vielleicht bin ich ja ganz falsch gewickelt,
und es käme alles wunderbar raus?
Das Grundproblem ist halt, dass die Sicherheit in Europa so stark damit verbandelt ist, was in den USA geschieht,
etwas mehr Eigenständigkeit wäre da schon sicherer.
Dann wäre es auch wieder mehr egal was für ein Theater die Übersee veranstalten.
Murmeltier said (Tue 16 Jul 2024 12:08:30 CEST):
Brian Jones, der Rolling-Stones-Gründer?
Sieht ganz so aus: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Jones,_Brian
Im zweiten Video oben wird erwähnt dass er sich im "Honors American History" Kurs
mit der Kennedy-Ermordung und Lee Harvey Oswald beschäftigt hatte.
In der New York Times stand kürzlich u.A.,
dass Crooks neben nach Trump online u.A. auch nach Biden und dem Generalstaatsanwalt Garland gesucht hatte,
sowie auch neben Infos zur Trump-Rally in Butler PA auch zur Convention der Demokraten im August in Chicago.
Klingt wie wenn es ihm nicht um ein politisches Statement für/gegen eine spezifische Partei gegangen wäre;
wenn politisch, dann eher allgemeiner.
Nebenbei, heute Abend ist die erste von 3 Uranus-Algol Konjunktionen
(longitudinal auf dem Tierkreis, Algol is ein rechtes Stück über der Ekliptik),
mit einem goldenen Yod mit Spitze Mond im Steinbock und Basis Jupiter+Merkur,
sowie einem "stumpfen goldenen Yod" mit Uranus-Algol [Korrektur: Mars]
an der Spitze und Venus+Saturn als Basis.
Dazu unten noch Hitler’s Horoskop mit dem bekannten goldenen Yod ebenfalls
mit Mond (+Jupiter) im Steinbock an der Spitze.
Biden wäre ja nominell der Präsident, auf den der "Fluch des Tippecanoe"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Tippecanoe
zutreffen würde, da 2020 gewählt,
wobei die MAGA-Anhänger es ja so sehen, dass da Trump gewählt wurde
(was anscheinend soweit geht, dass im "Project 2025" Dokument
Trump als "President Trump" erwähnt wird jeweils und Biden ohne Titel,
aber nicht selbst auf den 900 Seiten nachgeprüft).
Dass Trump überlebte könnte man u.A. auch damit assoziieren,
oder auch dass er mind. nominell Algol noch ganz knapp mehr als 1° vom MC hat.
War mir nicht bewusst gewesen, aber in seiner Acceptance Speech erwähnte Trump auch,
dass wenn der Schuss 1/4" (ca. 7mm) weiter Richtung Kopf gewesen wäre, er jetzt tot wäre,
wohl durch die Wucht der Kugel auf die Schädelknochen.
eit Kennedy (JFK, "1960") war der Fluch nicht mehr eingetroffen,
wobei es auf Reagan ("1980") sicher ein Attentat gab wo er von Kugeln verwundet wurde
und ich glaube auch bei Bush Jr. ("2000") gab es sowas.
Astrologisch verbindet man die Jahre natürlich auch mit dem Jupiter-Saturn Zyklus,
"Der König ist tot, es lebe der König!".
Lee Harvey Oswald, horoscope for birth date 18 October 1939, born in New Orlea...
Momo said (Sat 20 Jul 2024 13:33:59 CEST):
Ich bin gespannt,
ob Joe Biden zurücktritt.
Ist passiert, bzw. er bleibt im Amt aber zieht sich aus dem Wahlkampf zurück,
kandidiert nicht mehr für das Amt als Präsident für die nächsten 4 Jahre:
X Post
My fellow Democrats, I have decided not to accept the nomination
and to focus all my energies on my duties as President for the remainder of my term.
My very first decision as the party nominee in 2020 was to pick Kamala Harris as my Vice President.
And it’s been the best decision I’ve made.
Today I want to offer my full support and endorsement for Kamala to be the nominee of our party this year.
Democrats — it’s time to come together and beat Trump. Let’s do this.
Meine lieben Demokraten, ich habe beschlossen, die Nominierung nicht anzunehmen
und mich für den Rest meiner Amtszeit ganz auf meine Pflichten als Präsident zu konzentrieren.
Meine allererste Entscheidung als Kandidat der Partei im Jahr 2020 war es, Kamala Harris als meine Vizepräsidentin zu wählen.
Und das war die beste Entscheidung, die ich je getroffen habe.
Heute möchte ich meine volle Unterstützung und Befürwortung für Kamala als Kandidatin unserer Partei in diesem Jahr anbieten.
Demokraten - es ist an der Zeit, zusammenzukommen und Trump zu schlagen. Lasst uns das tun.
Übersetzt mit DeepL.com (kostenlose Version)
Zeitstempel scheint 20:13 MESZ zu sein, müsste mal wohl auf Delaware umrechnen wo er im Moment wäre...
Es wird in der letzten Zeit noch zwei weitere exakte Uranus-Algol Konjunktionen geben:
- 15. Oktober 2024 (rückläufig)
- 4. Mai 2025
Mein Bauchgefühl, ohne es direkt astrologisch begründen zu können, wäre, dass sich nochmal was ändert,
aber was genau kann ich nicht sagen.
(Unabhängig davon, hatte ich den Eindruck, dass Trump auch nicht mehr so fit ist,
insb. mit der neuen Immunität des Präsidenten ist er nicht mehr so sehr darauf angewiesen gewählt zu werden,
um den Gerichten zu entgehen.
Seine Acceptance Speech war sehr lange, und es wurde anscheinend sogar den Leuten bei der Convention langweilig davon,
von den Gesichtern her zu urteilen.)
Nothing has fundamentally changed so far, still seems like I am back to square one with such a "unified theory"
that would lead from immediate personal experience of the world to both what is scientifically known (and agreed upon) today
and things like astrology, telepathy, oracles, precognition, religion, etc.
Maybe was too much to hope for.
Part of what was driving it, was the hope to get something more suitable to promote that way,
but even that might have been an illusion.
"Theory of Everything" is usually abbreviated to ToE, and the toe would anatomically be attributed to the very end of Pisces (feet),
where my Saturn is (29°05') and even more to the end where Neptune recently stationed (2 July, 29°55' Pisces).
It is maybe also the point where a ToE evaporates to nothing, the new cycle, just was not there, yet.
The ancient Greeks in classical times apparently did not yet search for a unified theory of everything.
At least in "The Origin of Stoic Cosmology" (with Stoics at least as "mainstream" coming later than classical Greece)
David Hahm argues that unlike the Stoics, Aristotle was not yet aiming at a unified theory, and thus, for example,
the four elements had somewhat different properties in different works, some more derived from Hippocrates (4 humors),
other from other influences.
So, maybe just contenting myself with a few fragments and publishing them in time, probably individually would be fine.
That collection would include my model of zodiac signs described as transformation of the 4 elements
(without the in/out + rest/move stuff, just as the phenomena and modern attributions, plus simple images fire/cloud/river/tree)
and how astrology and deities would come about as collective beings via largely unconscious exchange between individuals.
That in itself is already quite a lot, even though not really much "physics", but...
At the time I realized that my approach probably does not work, I had also gotten 4 Blu-rays, the "Matt Helm Lounge"...
Now, Dean Martin has Neptune in early Leo conjunct Saturn in late Pisces,
hence at a trine to both my Saturn in late Pisces and also at a trine to where Neptune will be at my 3 Saturn returns in 2025 and 2026.
In the last of these three returns, Saturn ((and Neptune)) will be in the 9th house, same as at my birth.
Hence, a spray or set arrows shot out as several publications might fit my fate better,
at least in the years after that, for how long ever...
And, to me a style somewhat nonchalant and cool like Matt Helm in the movies might actually be a good choice
for that sort of thing where trying to be too precise and adapting too much to contemporary bias and beliefs
would seem futile anyways. I already have a title for the series in mind, but won't reveal it.
I cannot exclude that I would still be able to revive the original ideas as presented further above,
but that seems about as likely as just before I had these ideas, or before anybody tried something like that.
That's the fate of researcher in science, sometimes things just evaporate to nothing.
But back a bit to in/out and rest/move and so.
Inside seems to be softer than outside because:
The self has more influence inside and even when not actively focussing inside, things still move.
Hence at least Aristotle’s elements in terms of soft/hard and hot/cold would suggest
that water and air would be rather inside, but not even that so certainly,
and that you might want to define air as what is active inside and water as what is passive inside
(both of which you can feel).
But how would you tell if something outside is active or passive?
And so on, so far just loops of things that do not work out coherently,
as it usually is when you are trying to find out something new.
I guess my approach still has some beautiful general attributes, besides some details that are interesting in themselves,
like how I put the 8 trigrams of the I Ching into context with the 4 "Greek" elements...
Dean Martin also had 3 planets conjunct Algol,
and not even with aspects that would normally be considered benign (sextile to Saturn, square to Uranaus),
but apparently it worked out quite well.
One of the visitors to the rally in Butler PA had a fireman helmet that said "Steubenville",
which is about 1.5 hours by car from Butler, and is the place where Dean Martin was born...
How is someone supposed to stay "on topic" when things mix up like this all the time
(my stellium Mars/Venus/Jupiter in Cancer in 12?)...
Oh, I almost forgot, Mars is now in early Gemini, conjunct Sedna...
Dean Martin, horoscope for birth date 7 June 1917, born in Steubenville, with Astr...
Momo said (Mon 22 Jul 2024 09:06:25 CEST):
die 2 Konjunktion ist am 20 Oktober 2024
Uranus Konjunktion Algol Trigon Pluto ,sextil Neptun
die 3 Konjunktion ist nach meinen Berechnungen am 30.04.2025
Ich habe nochmal geschaut, 14. Oktober 2024 ca. 21:20 UTC, 4. Mai 2025 ca. 11:20 UTC.
Merkur ist seit 17. Juli in der Schattenphase, wird also bei der Convention der Demokraten in Chicago
schon eine Weile rückläufig sein...
2024 Mercury Retrograde Calendar
Bei der zweiten Konjunktion auch ein goldenes Yod, diesmal Sonne an der Spitze und Basis Mond und Uranus/Algol,
von dem her das wohl kritischer auf den ersten Blick...
The Sun is now in Leo, something like two days from entering my first house
(and Mercury is in its shadow phase since a few days, 17 July),
so maybe enough courage to give it another try:
Inside it mostly takes energy to keep anything still, with maybe as the only exception the current mood.
Is thinking really something that flows/moves or is it rather a discrete sequence of things that are still,
of things that are quickly and actively focussed on (thus kept still) and then let go when they dissolve again?
Images, or words in a sentence, or logical consequences that follow from each other?
Flowing things would then rather be what happens in the mind when one is not actively holding on to something,
not actively thinking about some things.
That would be closer again to my original approach, would bring thinking again closer to active and resting (eri/"air"),
while still not directly linking feelings to passive and/or moving (emi/"water"),
but maybe by again taking a different angle, also that could be resolved?
I guess still too abstract for anybody else here to follow?
But maybe the following ancient image of the psyche is helpful
(also for me; my own words below, just emphasized in bold+color):
In ancient Greece, the word for the psyche (as used e.g. by Plato), namely psychê, literally meant "butterfly".
That beautiful insect which flies from flower to flower, sort of randomly sometimes resting longer on one flower,
sometimes just very briefly, and then flying on again...
That would, expressed in other words, be similar to what I wrote above in the second paragraph.
The flowers would be individual/fixed (non-moving) items of thought
(an image, a word, or maybe a law of nature, or some concept or belief, or maybe also a "topic").
Then again, flying from flower to flower might seem more like the active part in that image,
but arguably in the mind just a necessary activity to create a stable item ("flower") in the mind again just for a second,
with the "flying part" between items not really present usually in the mind.
Anyways, I am a bit more hopeful now
Momo said (Mon 22 Jul 2024 10:08:25 CEST):
und die vorletzten Konjunktionen waren dann 3 mal
von Mai 1941
bis Februar.1942
Stimmt soweit ich sehe wieder nicht ganz (in den frühen 1940ern war Algol etwa auf 25°20' Stier).
Ich komme auf diese Daten:
- 18. Juli 1940
- 16. Oktober 1940
- 2. Mai 1941
Unten Horoskope für Washington DC.
Am 18. Juli 1940 wurde Franklin D. Roosevelt vom Kongress der Demokraten zum Präsidentschaftskandidaten gewählt,
fast einstimmig, und für die 3. Amtszeit, im Angesicht des 2. Weltkriegs.
Er wurde auch gewählt, plus danach sogar noch für eine 4. Amtszeit, wo er dann altersbedingt verstarb.
Damals war es schon Tradition, max. 2 Amtszeiten Präsident zu bleiben
(begründet bereits vom allerersten US Präsidenten George Washington - eben nicht wie ein König oder Kaiser),
war aber damals noch nicht in der Verfassung.
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt#Election_of_1940
Zum 16. Oktober 1940 habe ich gefunden, dass dann der Einzug von Soldaten in den USA begann,
damals für 21-35 jährige in den "kontinentalen USA", gemäss Beschluss signiert vom Präsidenten am 16. September 1940.
-- https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/United_States_World_War_II_Draft_Records
(Zum 2. Mai 1941 soweit nichts eindeutiges gefunden, ev. eher um Nazi-Deutschland herum,
wie das wo das Ernährungsproblem der deutschen Truppen geplant so "gelöst" wurde,
dass dazu Millionen von Russen verhungern würden:
- https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerplan#Protokoll_der_Staatssekretäre-Besprechung,_2._Mai_1941
oder auch vermutlich da herum die physische Vernichtung der Juden im grossen Stil beschlossen und vorangetrieben,
insb. auch in Russland ab der Invasion im Juni, aber ich bin damit im Detail soweit zu wenig vertraut...)
That leads for me to an interesting image: Butterfly and flowers, or maybe a boat between islands.
The islands/flowers would be "air", would be some actively held on "non-moving" things inside,
while the decision where to go next, to which next island/flower would typically rather be intuitive,
flowing, feeling, "water"...
At least something with maybe some potential.
Here's the current draft for my web site, sort of trying to summarize at least some of the angles
that recently came up—maybe also a first manifestation of Sedna in Gemini, thesis and anti-thesis
(and maybe eventually synthesis, but most likely I won't reach the age at which Sedna would move into Cancer...):
In early July 2024, some alternative views emerged after some online posts,
actually the first ones around the core ideas since disclosing their basic discovery in 2004 in Usenet.
Implicitly, I was sort of thinking that there would be a “second movie” screen inside the mind,
where also things would be and could be contemplated, and I was sort of thinking that thoughts would be static active insights,
while feelings would be passively flowing. But this seems a bit naive in this form.
Thoughts would typically seem to flow quickly and feel active inside,
while feelings would at least typically change less frequently and less quickly than thoughts.
Hence via the current perception in psychological astrology of feelings-water and thoughts-air,
quite some correlations with ancient views would apparently disappear,
emi would be active and “air”, eri would be passive and “water”.
But maybe these views are also somewhat naive, or at least also need to be investigated more closely.
Do thoughts really flow? Whenever you do not actively focus on something inside,
it moves, almost immediately starts to flow and dissolve away from its form.
Hence would thinking rather be like steps on a stair, discrete steps between images or words, etc.
that are fixed for a moment and then move on to the next step?
In the ancient Greek image of the psyche as a butterfly,
the flowers would be the images, words, topics, etc. and why/when the butterfly flies on
might also be directed by feelings or “intuition”,
by something not directly accessible to the conscious mind.
Where does the identification air-thinking and water-feeling come in contemporary psychological astrology?
Maybe from Jung’s “Psychological Types”, but is it like that there\,?
And what about the ancient theory of humors and temperaments, does that reflect this view? Interesting questions.
In any case, the idea of an interplay between active, conscious, thinking islands (“flowers”)
and in between just flowing passively to the conscious mind from island to island (“flower to flower“)
has quite some appeal so far.
Momo said (Tue 23 Jul 2024 16:48:39 CEST):
Ich hab 6 Std.zurück gerechnet.( bitte korrigieren, falls falsch! )
Stimmt schon soweit ich sehe, und dass er sich wohl am Sonntagvormittag entschieden hatte,
hatte ich auch bei CNN so gelesen gehabt.
MC nahe vom n.Mondknoten der USA, relativ kurz nach Vollmond (was auch etwas an den Vollmond von Kamala Harris erinnert),
also wo sich typ. manifestieren würde, was bei Neumond das Thema war...
Und zu den Daten der Uranus-Algol Konjunktionen.
Mir schon klar, dass da auch Uranus recht langsam ist,
jetzt eine recht lange Weile oft Uranus konjunkt Algol sein wird innerhalb von einem Grad.
Aber schon auffällig die Symmetrie zwischen Franklin D. Roosevelt nominert zum 3. Mal
und faktisch Kamala Harris nominiert, je bei der ersten von 3 exakten (longitudinalen) Uranus-Algol konjunktionen.
Quelle: https://www.astrologyhoroscopereadings.com/2024-mercury-retrograde-calendar.html
Punkte wo stationär:
- 4°06' Jungfrau ("A man dreaming of fairies." - "Ein Mann, der von Feen träumt.") - 5. August 4:56 UTC
- 21°25' Löwe ("A carrier pigeon." - "Eine Brieftaube.") - 28. August 21:14 UTC
Hey, tonight, more precisely at about 00:30 shortly after going to bed and before falling asleep,
things probably cleared up to me, I guess restored my views in some somewhat transformed way(s)...
The moon was in the first degree of Gemini, i.e. just a little bit behind Sedna.
The image of islands seems really good.
Geologically, most islands are of volcanic origin and only live briefly,
rather tens of thousands of years than millions of years.
And both shaking the earth and the sea itself were Poseidon's realms...
(Remember the Neptune station 2 July 2024 at 29°55'55"?
(closer to the spring point than ever in at least the past 2500 years,
while in the last degree every few hundred years...))
So thinking would be sort of hopping between islands that emerge from the sea,
would be static for a moment when you are there, and sink back afterwards,
would dissolve or something, when focus wanders off. I am sure there would be variations
and I am also sure that this was not the last insight,
but it seems like something that can grow again and does at its core not contradict
my somewhat abstract previous considerations around elements of the past 20 years...
Odysseus did travel from island to island back to his home island Ithaca,
while Poseidon did a lot to make that harder.
And Odysseus was helped by Athena, who could be associated with (conscious) thinking,
but she also sent him dreams in his sleep, and Zeus was, of course, in the end helping,
too, but very remotely...
The Odyssey is arguably the first instance of a kind of thinking
that has become ubiquitous (everywere/always) since then in at least most of the world,
hence the image of islands and the sea might be a very good one for the psyche also in that sense...
Again, I am not claiming at all to have all answers to all questions.
But maybe, similar to the tool maker Hermes (my Mercury at the AC in 12 in early Leo),
I may have created new ways of looking at things that can lead to many interesting new things ("islands"),
as tools to explore or even as instruments to create art
(like Apollon with the lyre he got from its creator Hermes)...
I do not want to make it a habit to post such long texts,
but below is what I wrote this morning as draft for my site,
sort of in condensed form recapitulating what had been said before...
Wait, some more things, related to current times...
I started to read Jung's "Psychologische Typen" (Psychological Types),
but the text is very sophisticated and something like 100 pages,
so will take a while.
His AC is nominally opposite mine, so with also Pluto there maybe not boring to read,
presenting complementary views. I have also taken a look at other views of the elements over centuries,
but nothing nearly conclusive, while at least at the times of Lilly,
is was most likely still the traditional temperaments, even though he did not himself expand on that,
just Deborah Holden’s comments relate to that, but maybe about at some later time.
I also had started to read in Jacques Brosse’s "Mythologie des arbres" (Mythology of Trees),
which is very interesting, and also mentions Poseidon early as god of the ash tree (c.f. Yggdrasil the world ash, etc.),
and more things "you won't find anywhere else".
The book also has a darker side, so possibly also a relation to Uranus/Algol,
and the Olympics in Paris, and so on...
(The book has been translated to German and Italian, but as far as I could see not to English,
but maybe with auto translation if really interested would be an option.)
And just in general: Algol is not a star where I would dare to relativate its impact,
there are deaths associated with it, and maybe often not much humans can do around them.
But anyways, here's the draft, enjoy!
• Implicitly, I had been sort of thinking since 2004 that there would be a “second movie screen” inside the mind,
where also things would be and could be contemplated, and I was sort of thinking that thoughts would be static active insights,
while feelings would be passively flowing.
But thoughts can also appear to be flowing quickly and feel active inside,
while feelings would at least typically change less frequently and less quickly than thoughts.
Hence via the current perception in psychological astrology of feelings-water and thoughts-air,
quite some correlations with ancient views would apparently disappear,
emi would be active and “air”, eri would be passive and “water”.
But do thoughts really flow?
Whenever you do not actively focus on something inside, it moves,
almost immediately starts to flow and dissolve away from its form.
Hence would thinking rather be like discrete steps between images or words, etc.
that are fixed for a moment and then move on to the next step?
In the image of the psyche as a butterfly, the flowers would be the images, words, topics, etc.
and why/when the butterfly flies on might also be directed by feelings or “intuition”,
by something not directly accessible to the conscious mind.
So maybe thinking is like islands that emerge out of an unconscious sea,
then you move on, and the islands sink back.
Geologically, islands are usually short-lived and of volcanic origin,
while both shaking the earth and the sea itself were attributed to Poseidon in Greek mythology.
• The above considerations emerged around early July 2024 after some online posts,
the first ones around the core ideas since disclosing their basic discovery in 2004 in Usenet.
2 July 2024 planet Neptune (the Roman name for the sea god) stationed at 29°55’55” Pisces,
i.e. at the very end of the zodiac, a very rare event that close to the spring point,
had not been that close at least the past 2500 years, while sort of almost as close every few hundred years.
Homer’s odyssey is arguably the first expression of a way of thinking that has become mostly ubiquitous.
Odysseus is traveling home to his island Ithaca with the help of Athena (also in dreams)
and also crucially Zeus, while the apparently more archaic Poseidon is at least making that harder.
• Where does the identification air-thinking and water-feeling come in contemporary psychological astrology?
Maybe from Jung’s “Psychological Types”, but is it like that there?
And what about the ancient theories of humors and temperaments, do they reflect this view?
I just saw it, Philippe Katerine singing "tout nus" (completely naked) as blue Dionysos...
Philippe Katerine, horoscope for birth date 8 December 1968, born in Thouars, wit...
(RR AA "Grazia Bordoni database, 'entertainment' file quotes Marc Brun - from birth certificate.")
His AC in early in Gemini (hence conjunct Sedna now, and maybe blue for that, whatever...)
MC in early Aquarius, hence close to Pluto now, and with Venus in 9 conjunct...
Haven't you guys ever heard of Alfred Jarry, probably the one laid the foundation for Dada and Surrealism, and more...?
"Once he turned up at the theater dressed in a dirty white linen suit and a shirt he had made himself out of paper;
on the shirt, in India ink, was painted a cravat."
-- https://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/jarry.html
He had the king of Poland say "Merdre!" as the first sentence in his most famous play...
Just the French word for sh*t with an extra "r"...
"brouiller les idée" (~ mix up ideas) is a French expression...
I think in mythology Dionysos usually wore a Lion's pelt...
Yes, they drank diluted wine usually in antiquity, hence purple, sometimes even out of "glasses" made of amethyst...
(and of course the color of rulers, with Dionysos in some ways at least a reborn Zeus... poor snails, already back then...
)
Alfred Jarry, horoscope for birth date 8 September 1873, born in Laval, with Astro...
(RR AA "Gauquelin Vol 6/435")
I'd say if I have something like a hero regarding art and avantgarde at all, it would most likely be Jarry...
Here's the text of the song that Philippe Katerine (the "blue Dionysos") sang, its a peace song:
@xphi - please provide a link to the lyrics rather than writing them out.
We cannot breach copyright on this site, especially as the IOC are currently prowling the internet for anything they can find in that regard.
[The above red text was an edit by moderators/administrators at the time.
It should be noted that the forum was not allowed to be indexed by search engines until sometime in autumn 2024
and that you could find the lyrics at many places on the Internet, hence overall rather surreal or maybe just naive.]
Lyrics translated to English from the official clip:
Philippe - horse (hence Aquarius, Neptune themes)
He had heart surgery at the age of 8, which I guess makes things less serious in life afterwards...
I feel like I am dreaming when I read the posts above...
That's not my world...
C'est pas stroumpf...
[Columbine said: "But I am wondering if it is true that there would be no wars if we were all naked."]
Yes, I think he probably is aware of that...
Currently (see chart at #22), Pluto is at his MC, with his natal Venus ("peace") conjunct.
Reminds me of Inanna ("Venus") descending to the underworld in Mesopotamian mythology
and taking gradually off all makeup, jewelry and clothes until naked in the end.
Auch Transit-Neptun beim Geburts-Chiron, letzterer ist sogar sehr nahe vom Punkt
wo Neptun kürzlich stationär war (29°54'25' <=> 29°55'55" Fische)
Und Transit-n.Mondknoten bei der Geburtssonne in 9, konjunkt MC.
etherea said (Wed 31 Jul 2024 21:15:13 CEST):
his birth data from astrotheme:
Astrology and natal chart of Philippe Katerine, born on 1968/12/08
December 8th, 1968, 16.10hrs, Thouars, France
Seeing where transiting Pluto is found in his chart, blaring like a klaxon, how transiting Uranus is on natal Ascendant
and then how Neptune is giving his natal Chiron a sand-blasting, this explains a lot about recent events:
[Chart below already corrected by etherea after my post.]
See #22 above with source ADB, same data but different AC, also in the chart at ADB???
The lyrics are at the youtube link in its description, first in french, then english and maybe more colors...
blue is liberty in the slogan of the french revolution...
it is apparently speculated that athletes would have originally been naked in greece
was also because then they could not conceal a weapon...
and it was the christians that ended olympics...
now, with the age of pisces gradually ending, maybe making fun of christians would become more frequent,
a bit like apuleius described the ancient gods and godesses in "the golden ass" in the 2nd century ce... and so on...
actually nothing google could not answer, "follow the white rabbit"... so why me investing time, been long enough...
and, hey, the french revolution, stated 1:30 pm (see wikipedia) 14 July 1789 with the storm of the bastille,
moon around 12° aries, so expect some theater, and nodes around 25°xx scorpio and taurus,
I think the s.node already conjunct algol now (but not then), so with scorpio and algol there might be some chopping...
etherea said:
mmm, not sure (maybe a timezone difference?)...happy to go with either and probably ADB more correct,
but the outer planet placements still very strong on those angles.
Yours seems to be for the wrong day, 5 December 1968, not 8 December...
(Would have been easier to spot with whole chart posted...)
For completeness, the chart for the French Revolution, storming of the Bastille 14 July 1789:
Time from here (did not research more deeply, but the day is certainly correct):
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storming_of_the_Bastille#Storming_the_Bastille_(14_July_1789)
"Around 1:30 pm, the crowd surged into the undefended outer courtyard."
Thanks @Oliver for all you have done so far to create the forum and to help keep it up.
Does anybody remember the 1981 movie "Clash of Titans" which is about Perseus and Medusa and Andromeda and so on...?
In that movie there is a scene where Perseus is essentially done, lying on the ground but Zeus,
when nobody is looking, picks him up as a toy figure and puts him back on his feet...
Maybe I also got so lucky, but first some more context around current themes also...
On his website on the page "Constellations of the Decanates"
Sanderson Beck lists three characters from the above myth with decanates of Pisces,
Cepheus (the huge sea monster sent by Poseidon),
Andromeda (the maiden to be sacrificed to Cephus and rescued by Perseus
with helf of the severed head of Medusa that turned Cephus to stone),
and Cassiopeia, the mother of Andromeda.
This sort of brings Uranus-Algol and Neptune at the end of Pisces together,
hence would at least be partially a mirror of current times.
Also, the story of "Cupid and Psyche" in Apuleius' "The Golden Ass" (2nd century CE)
has quite some similarities with the myth around Perseus,
there it was Psyche who was to be sacrificed at the sea shore to a sea monster.
And the mother of Cupid (Eros/Amor) was Venus/Aphrodite –
in ancient Greece the constellation of Pisces was Aphrodite as the horizontal fish
and her son Eros as the vertical fish.
And what I am thinking about here is arguably related to the "psyche"
and also somewhat of a "near death" experience in recent weeks...
Anyways, here's my take (with some help )
on what moves and what rests inside of today:
Conscious thinking is where there is attention, a focus on something (or several things at once),
which is essentially holding those things in place while attention is on them, hence that would be eri,
while the flow when not in focus would be emi, and e5 would by definition be what shifts focus.
Remember that I had defined the fifth element e5 simply as what transforms the other elements,
which includes turning what moves inside (emi) to what rests inside (eri) and vice-versa.
This does somewhat elegantly go around the usual issues with subject and object, with self-reference and so on...
Remains to be seen if that really restores a fundamentally new view at the world and life,
but is more hopeful and apparently the "gods" (and "goddesses") are still interested...
xphi... said (Tue 30 Jul 2024 09:55:13 CEST):
Where does the identification air-thinking and water-feeling come in contemporary psychological astrology?
Maybe from Jung’s “Psychological Types”, but is it like that there?
And what about the ancient theories of humors and temperaments, do they reflect this view?
I did read Jung's descriptions of the psychological types of 1921 the past few days (is about 80 pages long),
the first half mainly around extraverted types quite carefully and slowly,
the second part about introverted types more quickly, but I will probably reread it more carefully.
Quintessence in my view is that his text is a must-read for practicing astrologers.
Astrologers from the 20th century have certainly been influenced by his text, but as far as I can see,
they only partially and sometimes apparently only superficially passed on what he said.
This is not to say that everything he said there should be taken as true,
but it is very sophisticated and thus deserves careful consideration.
It is also certainly not completely detached from the structure of his own psyche,
for example in my view he was early in his life apparently living out more the extraverted sides,
was completely integrated, and only gradually developed his own ideas,
plus there was eventually the "red book".
Hence, what he says may be biased at times, but the core approach is certainly still worth a closer look,
as it may be very helpful to be aware of his approach especially also in astrological practice...
He never mentions Galen or Hippocrates in the huge preamble to his exposition of the types
(only does so in a lecture in 1923), while it is known from a letter years earlier to Freud
that he had been doing astrology already earlier on.
Also, having 8 types (4x extraverted, 4x introverted) reminds of the 8 trigrams of the I Ching,
with which he started to experiment around 1920 (according to his own words around 1961).
But here is a concise summary of what he wrote about the types,
naturally not all he said can fit into just a few sentences:
Jung uses extraverted in the sense of consciously basing one’s life mostly on what is outside,
and introverted as basing it consciously mostly on the subjective impression of what is outside,
in both cases with unconscious counterreactions to some degree.
He categorizes thinking and feeling as rational or judging,
because they would judge what they perceive in their field of attention,
while sensing and imagination would rather just accept the impressions as given.
Also, ‘subjective’ is given a bit more weight by Jung than others usually do,
since archetypes inside are considered shared by him.
The last sentence implicitly refers to the collective unconscious.
If things are connected inside, then inside is not detached from the rest of people or the world.
He does not mention the ancient four elements, instead names the 4 types like this
(with elements attributed by me in the contemporarily obvious way):
Thinking (Denken) - "Air"
Feeling (Fühlen) - "Water"
Sensation (Empfinden) - "Earth"
Intuition (Intuition) - "Fire"
That he categorizes thinking and feeling as judging might be related
to the nominally corresponding emi and eri ("water and earth") being inside in my model by definition,
since inside would naturally be where a judgement is made.
But overall, this approach is still quite different from mine,
so not overall obvious what to identify with what, if anything.
But he appears to be the first one to mention "in/out" in the context of elements...
So maybe also simply a "Swiss theme" (c.f. also Emil Lips’ considerations at his website.)
Regarding older sources, nothing conclusive so far...
It looks like, for example, phlegmatic types (water, white bile, winter)
would have been simply considered passive and rather weak or even cowardly,
but no immediately inner view, nothing psychological as far as I could find.
Maybe in the case of water if thinking of water instead of while bile, tears would come to mind,
which can be caused by sorrow, joy or pain, which may have been part of associating feelings with water at some point.
The earliest text I found so far that reminds already of later attributions
is in Alan Leo’s "The Art of Synthesis" of 1912 (thus before Jung). For example, about water:
The WATERY TRIPLICITY is the symbol of the PSYCHIC Man.
It is the fluidic, impermanent and changeable triad,
in which sensations, feelings and emotions are ever coming and going like the waves on the ocean.
It represents the lower, mortal and perishable man,
and as such its centre is the fixed-water sign Scorpio.
Note already a switch from phlegmatically passive (hence at least outwardly not moving)
to "fluidic, impermanent and changeable"...
And, just for comparison, what it says currently at astro.com on the introductory pages about astrology:
People with a strongly emphasized water element are feeling types and are very sensitive.
Their imaginative and emotional lives are deep and rich.
But the main purpose of this thread is not so much past views,
rather the specific new idea and in which ways it may be fruitful.
PS: Just noticed: When Jung was born, Algol was at 24°25' Taurus, hence still within 1° from his natal Pluto at 23°30' Taurus.
PPS: Sabine Spielrein’s Neptune would have been at 24°25' Taurus at her birth (date not certain, see ADB).
[After that I again changed email and password to end posting as "xphi..."
and rejoined in October as "xphi2" for a few more posts.
During summer I spent quite some time writing or often rewriting on my website exactphilosophy.net,
first sort of removing things that seemed untrue and then at least partially recovering step-by-step.
As said previously, the overall outcome is still open,
while the original idea does have the beauty that it would correlate well with many things that have very long traditions.]
Algol 2024: 26°30' Taurus
Uranus today right there: ~26°30' Taurus
Kamala Harris Jupiter: 24°07' Taurus (Algol at birth: 25°39' Taurus)
Donald Trump MC: 24°21' Taurus (Algol at birth: 25°24' Taurus)
Uranus 5 Nov: ~25°43' Taurus
Not sure how to interpret that...
Some considerations:
Geopolitically, China is the big player aiming for World Domination, and with Trump's long established ties to Moskow,
maybe considered better by most US-Americans to have Russia "on their side" for the coming years.
But Trump is also quite past his prime.
Neptune will soon be in Aries.
I except that then borders will become less permeable to immigrants,
and I presume at least some countries would do "remigration".
Uranus will soon be in Gemini, where it is in Trump's chart and in the one of the USA
(at least the ones of very roughly around July 1776).
Sedna will remain in Gemini for several decades, just not sure where a presumed global split or splits would be,
two relatively static blocks USA-EU-Commonwealth vs. China-Russia-Iran-(India?)-... ("BRICS"),
or maybe switching alliances, and the USA split for the time being into "GOP-Russia" and "Dems-EU-NATO" or whatever?
I guess hard to see into Medusa's mind (Algol would be in her head),
cannot look into her eyes to find out what she is up to, or rather only once...
I think I could finally recover the idea, actually even give it some tradition in some way,
going back to ancient Greek philosophy.
But no details, yet, tonight...
The key is related to Plato's cave, via an even older ancient Greek tradition called "theoria",
which was later, in already more virtual form, translated to Latin as "contemplatio".
One result related to astrology would probably be that water=feelings would likely be too simplistic,
but even I do not have the details there, yet, but remember that water=feelings is likely due to C.G. Jung around 1921,
where he certainly made an import contribution to elements, but could likely not go beyond that just then...
Stay tuned, if you like...
Relatively recently I discovered that apparently Google does not necessarily find something
even if given very specific search terms.
I tried that on my website using specific keywords, but Google did not find it.
This means that nobody could find that content even if they were specifically interested in it and searching for it,
and, of course, also that I would also not be able to find very specific info even if searching specifically for it.
To me this means that other ways of finding information,
like via reading and/or asking in a forum with generally themes that correlate with one's interests becomes more important.
In that sense, I would welcome it if in the future it was possible to post links to one's own work on a non-commerical website.
-----
That Google's search results got worse relatively recently did apparently not go unnoticed,
see e.g. https://mediaproper.com/google-search/
"Users across Reddit, TikTok, and YouTube are citing the reasoning behind Google’s waning dominance
is the decline in quality search results. Five years ago there were opportunities for smaller sites to rank on Google
with quality, well researched, content that answered the searcher’s query.
The People Also Ask search feature only helped improve the chances of finding exactly what you were looking for."
I guess generally the status of an internet domain changed,
also because there are so many sites now that offer you your own website including own domain,
with no hassle to register it yourself.
In the past having a website at your own domain gave your content some weight,
gave you some presence in search results, but now it is usually almost invisible,
unless I guess you also are present on many social media and have links from there to your site,
or something like that.
Merkur tritt etwa zwei Tage nach dem Wahltag in den USA in die Schattenphase ein,
also nominell unter normalen Umständen eigentlich zu spät um für die Wahlen relevant zu sein,
aber wer weiss...
Das Sabische Symbol für rückläufig (und Austritt Schattenphase) hat Bezug zu Immigration,
was ja sehr Wahlkampfthema ist in den USA, und das Sabische Symbol für wieder direkt
(und Eintritt Schattenphase) liesse vielleicht auf neue Liebschaften oder gar Beziehungen hoffen diesen Herbst?
Eintritt Schattenphase: Do 07.11.2024 um 13:32 MEZ (12:32 UTC)
Merkur rückläufig: Di 26.11.2024 um 03:42 MEZ (02:42 UTC)
Merkur direkt: So 15.12.2024 um 21:56 MEZ (20:56 UTC)
Austritt Schattenphase: Fr 03.01.2025 um 04:15 MEZ (03:15 UTC)
Grade:
Rückläufig (+Austritt Schattenphase):
22º40' Schütze (Sab. Symbol "Immigrants entering. Entrance" - "Immigranten, die einwandern. Eintritt.")
Direkt (+Eintritt Schattenphase):
06º24' Schütze (Sab. Symbol "Cupid knocking at the door. Allurement." - "Cupid klopft an die Tür. Verlockung/Verführung.")
Quelle:
-- https://www.astrologyhoroscopereadings.com/2024-mercury-retrograde-calendar.html
-- https://www.astrologyhoroscopereadings.com/2025-mercury-retrograde-calendar.html
The ancient Greeks had a tradition called "theoria"
which was originally to travel physically to another city state (polis),
there typically witnessa religious event/festival,
return home and write about it for others to read
(or presumably further back in time tell about the visit to an audience).
What Plato describes in his "Allegory of the cave" or more simply "Plato's Cave"
is virtual form of such a journey, where you travel away from your daily life and issues
to some "higher" place with more light and beauty, and also return back.
In Plato's cave people are chained down in a cave such that they can only face forward to a wall.
Behind them is a path and small wall where people are carrying different things across the path
and a bit further behind them is a fire, such the carried objects throw shadows on the wall
that the chained people see.
Plus the people who carry things also say some words while carrying the stuff around.
The chained people specialize on recognizing the shadows, on predicting which will come next,
also associate the words they hear with those shadows.
Then one of the chained people is released and guided to the surface,
where he is first blinded by the sun, takes quite a while to adapt to the situation there,
and starts to observe all that is there, interestingly also starting with the night sky
(because then it is less bright, initially easier for him).
After a while he is forced to go back down, and then has, of course,
trouble at first to adapt to the dim situation down there,
which Socrates (who is telling the allegory in Plato's dialogue "The Republic")
interprets that the people downstairs would conclude that going up is not healthy,
and might even kill the guy who came back from upstairs if he wanted to convince them to go up.
There is a very literal allegory here, which Plato certainly also had in mind,
namely that his idol and teacher Socrates had been tried and convicted to death by hemlock
by his fellow Athenians some years or decades before Plato wrote the allegory.
The Athenians would be the people tied down, with limited perception,
while Socrates would have gone virtually to the light
and discovered also new perspectives on life down in the cave.
A bit more generally, Socrates went on a virtual "theoria",
a journey in his mind to a different place from where he could contemplate the situation in Athens
(or generally things as practiced and viewed) from a different vantage point.
"contemplatio" was the Latin translation of "theoria",
at a time where theoria already had a more virtual meaning.
Obviously the allegory does not stop there,
otherwise it might not have become the probably most famous allegory in philosophy of all times so far.
And it also mirrors a general development at these times.
Presocratic philosophers or rather "sophoi" (wise men, sages)
like Thales, Pythagoras, Heraclitus and more were polymaths,
would do what was later called science, politics (including government), religion, and so on.
Socrates got into a clash with power,
which is why Plato carefully avoided to do anything directly political,
and I guess also why he often emphasisizes in his dialogues
that the people involved would follow the contemporary religious rites and so on.
But he did try to realize his idea of a perfect philosopher state, I think in Sicily,
but it apparently turned rather into a tyranny, just another dictator there (not Plato himself).
Aristotle made already a more strict separation of "theoria" and "praxis",
did not get involved into politics except for analytical treatises
like one that compares different forms of government very rationally
and except that he was a teacher of the young Alexander the Great.
Aristotle was, unlike Plato, also not a native of Athens,
which might additionally explain that he was more reluctant.
In antiquity people would normally read texts out loud,
hence also the hexameters in Homer's epics, and so on.
Silent reading, which has a certain resemblance with "theoria"
in the virtual, new sense of Socrated/Plato,
is a different aspect of a general trend in which modern thinking evolved,
where one can silently contemplate in one's mind
what is going on both outside and also inside the mind.
This is where I am coming back to the elements in my definition.
If you contemplate a scene outside with a tree, most of what you see will be resting,
even if you stay there for hours.
But if you close your eyes, imagine the same scenery and then contemplate what happens inside,
then things will start to flow quickly, unless you actively focus on keeping the scene intact.
That leads to the observation that things inside would flow when passive and rest when active,
despite the everyday experience when thinking in a "tunnel" or in a "cave"
when things happen and you process them and go to the next thought, and so on.
That is more the state of being chained down in the cave,
that is not contemplation/theoria like going up to view also oneself.
Hence:
rests outside: earth, passive ("female"), hard
moves outside: fire, active ("male"), hard
rests inside: air, active ("male"), soft
moves inside: water, passive ("female"), soft
I guess the first instance of such modern thinking,
or at least the most prominent one would have been the Odysse
where a lot of the story is told as a story in the story,
that way contemplating/theoria what Odysseus saw on those islands, etc.
Also, to me a journey from island to island represents maybe quite well how thinking commonly is:
One thought comes up, stays a bit, then you move on to the next,
hence short moments of active attention and then some change again.
Thinking that way cannot be fully conscious.
How could you retrieve, say, the word "island" from your memory?
You cannot use the word "island" itself consciously to retrieve itself.
And if you used some kind of "token" for island,
how would you have retrivieved that token the first place?
This seems to prove that a lot of what happens when thinking apparently consciously
cannot be all that conscious.
The ancient Greeks used the word "psyche" for the soul/psyche,
literally also the word for butterfly.
And a butterfly is similar to Odysseus traveling from island to island,
just from flower to flower, sometimes staying longer, sometimes only shortly,
apparently often unpredictably.
Most of my information around "theoria",
besides some "original interpretation" on the fringes
is from Andrea Nightingale,
in particular her book "Spectacles of Truth in Classical Greek Philosophy"
Theoria as a cultural practice (Chapter 1) - Spectacles of Truth in Classical Greek Philosophy
Symbolical side remark: Her mother's name was/is, if I recall correctly, Diana de Armas Nightingale,
which has obviously quite a bit of moon/huntress character, and in that sense it should also be noted
that in Plato's cave the different perspective in the cave is not nessesarily the less good approach,
they are to a large degree complementary, and go in a loop in the allegory.
[Reading this now, Sun 8 Dec 2024 at about 14:40, it is quite convincing to me.
At least in the sense that my core idea is worth preserving and also promoting
and/or evolving to some at least moderate degree, and maybe even more, will see…]
Dima Gur said (Sat 26 Oct 2024 17:01:48 CEST):
AbuMashar mentions in his Great Introduction that the North Node is hot and wet and that the South Node is cold and wet
I see some similarities between nn+sn and Uranus+Neptune because the former were "planets" number 8 and9
before the discoveries of the new ones.
Uranus is a sky/weather god like Zeus/Jupiter, hence Air would fit, wet+hot in Aristotle's definition of elements.
Neptune is a water god, hence Water would fit, cold+wet.
In the northern hemisphere, at the nn the moon travels above the ecliptic, which is often interpreted,
at least in modern/postmodern times as things becoming conscious,
which would again fit well with Air, and sn unconscious Water.
And I am not going to go into associations with the digestive track from mouth (nn) to anus (sn), but feel free,
at least those do not fully agree with the other two paragraphs above.
From a modern/contemporary point of view,
I would say that a lot about the nodes would just take on the attributes of the signs and houses they are in,
plus also objects in transit, while there would still be the associations above and also traditional views,
all superimposing to some degree...
Yesterday, already in bed, I had the general feeling that all would turn out well.
For no rationally obvious reason, I started also to wonder where asteroid Pythia is at the moment,
related to me having Pythia near the north node at birth (in Taurus in 11).
In ancient Delphi, the prophetesses sitting on a tripod on the opening in the earth ("node")
from which some fumes emerged were called Pythia,
after the snake/dragon that Apollon had killed when sort of taking the oracle from Gaia,
which did at least in the past apparently give me some prophetic abilities.
Now, yesterday Pythia was at 6.x° Aries (rx), close to the (true) north node also in the 7th degree of Aries.
So, this at least gives hope.
One of the most famous oracles of Delphi was in reply to the question of a king who was about to go to war.
The answer was that a great army would be destroyed.
The king interpreted this as a victory for himself and his army, while it was the opposite,
he lost his army and I do not remember what happened to him.
In that sense, my oracle is also difficult to interpret.
What I could interpret into this is that maybe with Neptune soon in Aries,
starting a long new cycle, new impulses would have a better chance of making it,
hence maybe the younger candidate for the US presidency, but that is just one possibility of many...
Just thinking about the myth where Jason carried Hera disguised as an old woman across a river and he lost one sandal.
Apparently something has to remain in the old cycle, only some things can be carried over.
Now, this again could be interpreted as the lost sandal being Biden,
but is the remaining sandal rather Harris or Trump?
Or would Trump be out soon in some way and then Vance step in?
There are many options...
Will the climate elephant in the room become visible to any or will humanity just blow itself up?
Stay tuned for next weeks's episode when .......
About the Russian Intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM)
launched last Thursday:
Impacts starting 05:17:17 (Dnipro Ukraine, 21 Nov 2024), see video here:
-- https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/21/world/video/ukraine-russia-icbm-missile-ldn-digvid
"Ukraine's Main Directorate of Intelligence says the Russian hypersonic missile launched on Thursday
flew to its target in Dnipro in just 15 minutes."
"Mr Peskov said Russian authorities had informed the US of its intention to launch
the intermediate-range missile 30 minutes ahead of time."
-- https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11...-missile-oreshnik-travelled-mach-11/104638254
Below a chart for the impact(s), with outside the chart of the
first nuclear test (Trinity Test).
Pluto just barely entered Aquarius (00°01'24"), at a close trine to Sedna at 0°40',
a sextile to the Sun in the last degree of Scorpio, and in opposition to Mars/Moon in early Leo,
thus part of a mystic rectangle.
To me Putin is now practically out of moves.
Yes, he now has a new scorpionic sting, apparently just a prototype,
but since these rockets are very expensive, the only escalation left would be to use nukes,
and that would put him into direct contact with an opponent currently far superior,
even still largely superior if China would get into the war, as far as I can see...
Reminds me of chess, where in the Endgame the King becomes imporant...
Maybe the road of Putin/Trump has just come to an end, at the moment where victory seemed certain...
By the way, talking about "kings", I have put my website (exactphilosophy.net) to rest for the time being,
most likely for years, or even for good except very minor updates about related publications,
and already prepared the final release of the website, including all articles (in English)
as a paperback book (US Letter, about 330 pages), which will additionally also be available
for free in electronic form at the website of my publishing company artecat.ch
(since the website itself is also available for free and will continue to be so
as far as I can promise anything into the future).
And if you search closely on the website (not in the book),
you might also find various contributions by me to various online forums over the years since 2002...
The release of the book, "exactphilosophy.net (final edition 2025)" will be 5 May 2025,
only something like a couple of weeks before my next Saturn return,
the first one since 1996 and the first in a series of three this time around.
The one of 1996 had Saturn at a close trine to both Pluto in early Sagittarius and the MC in very late Cancer,
which might explain the kinds of topics that I did bring to public in these times:
Public (MC) and Saturn (status) and Pluto ("fundamental" stuff), or maybe not, who knows for sure...
It is possible that I will publish some of my ruminations and findings in form of books or something like that,
but this is not certain, despite many projects I had been considering the past 5 years.
Maybe exactphilosophy.net will just be like Sleeping Beauty’s castle,
just waiting for future knights or knightesses (or *s),
to come by, see, fall in love, and carry on with some of it...
And remember, don't forget to look where Sedna is in future major events in coming years...
I presume from the way things are currently going,
the answer to climate change might well include a few atomic bombs shooting up water into the higher atmosphere
in order to provide some cooling, at least that would likely be the Republican approach
(first "frack, frack, frack, drill, baby, drill", then "nuke, baby, nuke").
And, yeah, remember also my take on astrological ages, namely to have 12 sectors starting with Alrisha,
the knot that connects the two fish of Pisces, first star of Pisces to have passed the spring point some decades before 0 CE?
Well, in that case, the Age of Aquarius would symbolically start around 2044.
If true, I would expect starting from about then to have more reason in the world than piscean boundlessness.
Famous last words, but someone has to do it...
Still very strange to me that what I provided had so little impact to astrologers,
but I guess Plato's Cave (see related earlier post or my website) does explain it,
even though somehow it still remains unbelievable
that nobody saw the value in what is obvious once you have seen it...
wanda said (Sun 24 Nov 2024 11:39:06 CET):
@xphi2
Where I think it will become more visible is when transiting Uranus conjuncts,
along with his ingress to Gemini.
Rightly or wrongly, astrologers are probably more focused upon Uranus conjunct Algol,
with a sobering interpretation of what this could bring.
I don't think Poots is out of moves.
However, any moves from here on in will take on proportions
to which the populations concerned would not gladly accede.
As Churchill wisely said: "Jaw-jaw, not war-war".
Eventually, negotiations and discussions have to happen so why not have them earlier rather than later....?
In the myth, Sedna gives up her fight, at which point she morphs into her larger reality and into peace.
Incidentally, it might be worth your while to post the chart of where Sedna was when the Minsk Agreement was signed.
Regarding Sedna in mythology:
Literally, in the myths I found, her father chops her fingers off
(or in just one of several versions at Wikipedia
her fingers freeze and break off) while she is still clinging to her father's kayak.
In the literal sense, she is the victim, it is not her choice to sink down.
But yes, is the usual conundrum of women as "victims of circumstances",
quite arguably due to their unawarness of their own sexual interests,
which make them both attractive and subject to unexpected things happening "out of the blue".
I guess with Sedna in Gemini there will be simply less discussions, negotiations, written/spoken words,
at least from humans, I guess words instead set free via AI (like Sedna's fingers turned into creatures of the sea)
so that every jerk can now write an intelligently/sophisticatedly sounding text.
There was an interesting piece about AI on Swiss TV lately, in an emission of the program "Kulturplatz" (an art program).
There a satirist showed a few things.
One point I remember is that AI generated stuff often has something nostalgic and familiar
because it is based on data from the past.
But what was most interesting to me was when he revealed bias with a very interesting example.
First he asked the AI to generate images with a man sitting on a horse, which worked fine.
Then he asked for images with a horse sitting on a man, and got ...
another set of images with men sitting on horses,
just for some reason apparently the men rather smiling then.
He tried different things like asking for a pyramid of men with a horse on top,
which resulted in a pyramid of men with a horse on top but with another man sitting on the horse again.
Only when he also started to use the word "surreal" did some images approach his request,
but also then not fully, sometimes a mixed creature horse/man came out, etc.
This was to show also that some "bias" in the data can hardly be removed.
If the world is "rassist" or "sexist", that will be in the results via the data.
Similarly, I was searching yesterday for a chart of the 2020s Jupiter-Saturn conjunction,
on Google with "jupiter saturn conjunction astrology"
and I only got links to astronomical (not astrological) sites...
Only when I added "site:astro.com" I found something,
however a chart only in one of the archived posts from the Astrodienst forum,
in a thread started by Murmeltier with a chart for Berlin included,
although cut off partially in the pdf...
Google's slogan used to be "information at your fingertips". (Or was that a general slogan at the time?)
That is clearly changing or rather largely already has; it appears that the fingertips have been removed.
You can no longer find sites with "horses sitting on men", only sites with "men sitting on horses",
figuratively speaking, nor sites with "Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions astrologically",
only sites with "Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions astronomically", etc.
Overall, you are now trapped in some neo-bourgeois hell...
Like Sedna in her marriage to the "birdman" or "dog"...
Hallo allerseits
Ich war so frei, ganz ungeplant, aber ziemlich genau ab Merkur rückläufig all meine Posts hier zu sammeln und zu archivieren.
Und zwar mit mehr Handarbeit als ursprünglich gedacht, aber das war durchaus hilfreich, um dabei auch nochmals durch die Themen zu gehen,
mit durchaus auch manchmal etwas anderer Perspektive oder sogar neuen Erkenntnissen und Schlussfolgerungen,
das war die letzten zwei Wochenenden und die Woche dazwischen abends, ganz grob 437 Posts, oft mit Links, Bildern, Videos...
Ist im Bereich meiner Website, der nicht von Suchmaschinen indiziert ist,
wo ich auch schon Archive von Posts in früheren Foren angelegt hatte:
- https://www.exactphilosophy.net/noindex/odyssey/
Und von dort ab nach Babylon...
Wohl auch wegen dem Fische MC dieses Forums ist das Archiv wohl ein bisschen freier ausgefallen als die vorherigen,
mit ein paar Kommentaren beim Sammeln, was ich sonst kaum gemacht hatte, und auch eher mal Posts weggelassen,
die eher privaterer Natur von anderen waren.
Und... obwohl ich dachte, ich hätte die Posts vom temporären Forum (in den USA gehostet) verloren gehabt,
hatte ich die doch wieder gefunden und auch mit archiviert.
Insgesamt ist alles "Mostly Harmless" (vorwiegend harmlos, wie die Erde im Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) im Archiv...
(Und wenn ihr alle irgendwo anders auf Deutsch am Posten wärt und mich dort ggf. vermissen würdet: PN oder info@artecat.ch...)
Und danke allen, die was zum oder im Forum beigetragen hatten...
Alain
Let me end this collection of posts with a few findings or even conclusions from revisiting the posts.
First of all note that I collected my posts starting late November into December,
i.e. during the Mercury retrograde phase at the time, with Mercury in Sagittarius.
Originally I wanted to only collect posts from the official forum because I thought
that I had not copies of posts to the previous "incubator" forum,
but I had, so I included them, too.
- Sedna's Invisibility: Maybe other than Uranus, Neptune and Pluto before,
Sedna as major astrological object in current times would remain a phenomenon
even largely unconscious to astrologers,
the reason being maybe that you can step down into a cellar or dungeon into Pluto's lair,
but you can hardly dive down far in ice cold water,
hence where she lives is almost all of the time below the human experience,
thus maybe unconscious.
- Saturn Returns: If you look at Hillary Clinton's current profile image on X ("Twitter"), it does remind of a lioness.
But to me rather a cold lion, more fitting with her current Saturn return chart
for the ADB birth time with Gemini AC and Aquarius MC, where Neptune in Aquarius ("photography") is at her AC
and Saturn in Leo is at her DC, thus shining through in the profile image.
In any case, provides an incentive that scientifically investigating Saturn return charts
would really be something that could allow to prove something in astrology for the first time.
- xphi core idea: what convinces me maybe most that the idea is beautiful
in the sense of being in accordance with all kinds of things from different millenia.
The ancient Greek philosophers emerged in the second half of the Age of Aries.
In my view the second half of any astrological Age (at least since the Age of Taurus)
shows lots of influence of the opposite sign, presumably as a counterbalance:
The second half of the Age of Taurus features the pyramids which are both hills ("Taurus") and graves ("Scorpio"),
plus the fascination with preserving the body.
The second half of the Age of Pisces features the Renaissance,
leading to various and often largely separated disciplines that investigate nature/reality ("Virgo").
And the second half of the Age of Aries features Greek philosophy, where the sphere was adored as the perfect form,
and all kinds of abstract considerations emerged, writing became more broadly used,
and especially also "theoria" changed from literal travels to inner ones, hence a lot of Libra.
In my model of the star signs of the zodiac, Libra as the central Air sign is balancing a transition
from Fire (of which Gemini would be mainly made of) via Air to Water (of which Aquarius would be mainly made of),
or in terms of the elements defined here,
eri (Air) would balance what moves outside (emo, Fire) with what moves inside (emi, Water),
hence the general theme of "balance" would already imply that eri rests and also that it is active,
because keeping something in balance is usually a state that only remains in balance / calm,
if you make tiny adjustments to keep it so (and sometimes larger ones).
I have no Air in my birth chart, at least none of the planets there and also not Chiron or Lilith/Priapus or the nodes.
I suspect that makes my thinking less calm than it would be for someone with lots of objects in Air signs, esp. in Libra.
Hence maybe to me the view eri-rests-Air is not so naturally obvious, only with some more abstract ("theoretical") insights,
but all in all this would fit very well together.
I do have some Air in my chart more indirectly,
namely Chiron and Saturn in late Pisces (and Liltith in the middle, where Saturn is hanging around at the moment).
In my model of the star signs of the zodiac, both signs ruled traditionally by Jupiter ("Air god") are mainly made of Air,
in the case of Sagittarius the end of a transition Earth-Fire-Air (ero-emo-eri),
with the image of a burning fire, that transforms wood ("Earth") via "Fire" to smoke ("Air).
In the case of Pisces, a transition Earth-Water-Air (ero-emi-eri), like ice ("Earth",
the hard shell of Cancer) melting to ("Water") and then evaporating to gas ("Air").
Both Sagittarius and Pices are associated with "leisure",
with "contemplation" (remember that this is the latinized form of "theoria", see further above?),
while they can also be quite wild for usually just short times, and otherwise apparently rest again.
Hence, with my Saturn in Pisces, esp. at the end of the cylce, a philosophical theme in public (exactphilosophy.net) feels natural,
and aided by Chiron a bit further behind. My Mercury (sort of "Air" in a way, too),
was moving very slowly at my birth, retrograde and just a few hours before going direct again,
at the AC in early Leo late in the 12th house.
My mercury has thus some qualities of "resting", of contemplation, while I still often do think quickly,
but then not really in a comtemplative more and happier when contemplating...
Last but not least, it also says at exactphilosophy.net that what I am doing there is a "hobby".
Now, there are various associations with that ("hobby" comes from the hobby horse),
but in light of my own birth chart I am also thinking of the only one of my angles that is in Air, namely my IC in Libra.
In psychological astrology, the IC is usually the "father", also ancestors, the "roots" of the tree made of AC-DC and MC-IC.
But it is also "home", the place where usually literally or in a virtual sense a hobby would take place,
as something you do fun and share often only within some people you are close to
(or at least that was how it usually was before social media).
My father (Jupiter in Sagittarius, Libra MC) did certainly have a philosophical streak,
I first heard of Plato's cave allegory from my father when sitting on a chairlift
and in a version where the ants would sit in their "home" and look at the shadows from the chairlifts that roll by,
cast into the snow by the sun.
My MC probably resonates more with my mother (Saturn in Aries, Scorpio MC and n.node).
But all in all, with my IC in Libra,
doing these philosophical considerations rather at / from home seems to also be some kind of natural fit.
From another prespective, my lack of Air, could also explain why my works get little reaction.
One side of that would probably be that my website is sort of a "moving target",
the texts do change when new insights emerge. That is not resting, that is not how at least famous people publish.
The fabricate something and then put it out, often never changing it again afterwards,
even if they would know better now, formulated a bit exaggeratedly,
I guess, remember, not really my world.
Also, I guess to "make it", you should normally make some abstract contacts with already famous people,
in ways that suit them and you, hence you need some abstracted social skills.
Well, yes, maybe, but that is not really very philosophical...
I see the future of my creations maybe still simply at exactphilosophy.net, presenting it there,
beautifully, just waiting for people to come by and like it, tell others about it, advertise it, attract more people.
But, maybe really switch to writing articles once and well enough and then let them be that way,
or occasionally make a second, clearly labeled version? Will see...
Coming back to "theoria" in ancient Greece a little:
As Andrea Nightingal writes, Philip of Opus, a contemporary of Plato who also was at his Academia,
favored a form of theoria where you look up into the night sky to find the truth,
i.e. in some ways I guess "as above, so below; as below, so above"...
"[...] his philosophic theorist contemplates the stars.
As he argues, the true philosopher engages in the activity of astronomical theoria,
in which he beholds and apprehends “visible gods” in the heavens.
This activity cultivates the virtue of piety, which has a direct impact on practical and political action.
Paradoxically, viewing and studying the heavens makes the philosopher a supremely good and vir- tuous man on earth.
Like Plato, Philip claims that theoria provides the only proper grounding for political praxis:
the theoretical philosopher can and should govern the city.
But Philip diverges from Plato by directing the theoretical gaze to the physical heavens rather than the metaphysical Forms."
And she also mentions Italo Calvino's book "Palomar"
(original title in Italian, "Mr. Palomar" in English, "Herr Palomar" in German),
where he plays with the themes of "theoria" in various ways,
quoting from Andreay Nightingale's "Spectacles of Truth in Classical Greek Philosophy":
Italo Calvino’s dazzling book, Mr. Palomar, offers a portrait of postmodern ways of seeing.
Its hero, Mr. Palomar – named after a famous telescope – spends his time conducting experiments
in viewing and contemplating the world around him.1
In a chapter entitled “The Contemplation of the Stars,”
Palomar ventures out to look at the heavens “in order to detach himself from the earth.” [...]
This activity, however, turns out to be quite complicated:
“to decipher a chart in the darkness he must also bring along a flashlight.
The frequent checking of sky against chart requires him to turn the light on and off,
and in the passages from light to darkness he remains almost blinded
and has to readjust his vision every time” (43).
In addition, Palomar wears eyeglasses to read,
which means that he must put them on to study the charts and remove them to look at the sky: [...]
I had been thinking this year that 2025 with my Saturn returns would mean maybe a radical change to how I would do things,
but maybe also with my n.node around 21° Taurus (and now Uranus moving more and more away from it),
that maybe no, not that much will happen,
I presume maybe a broader range of articles written in more accessible ways and staying more put (eri),
or maybe not even that...
(The book I mentioned in the previous post is still scheduled to appear 5 May 2025,
with only two very tiny changes to it since the last post, actually since yesterday
with the sun in late Sagittarius at a square to my natal Saturn and the sun at the registration of exactphilosophy.net...
The book is labeled "final edition 2025", which might still be true for a printed edition,
at least for quite a few years ahead, more "put" (eri),
something that people could later reference, not so much a moving target...
Or something like that...)
[chart of the post for your convenience…]
[The above post is certainly not perfect, certainly not complete in its analysis,
but also no intention on my side to add more here or to archive any more posts… But "never say never"…]
